factory orange peel removal?

brondondolon

New member
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
1,254
Reaction score
0
So I have a black 09 ram 1500 with mild factory orange peel. It's always annoyed me after spending a day detailing it and then notice all the ripples in the paint. I want it to be perfect. Tomorrow I'm placing an order for some CQUK and a few other things. I was going to throw in a CarPro denim pad and M100 to remove the orange peel but I don't have a paint gauge. I can't imagine burning a hole right through the paint with a denim pad and doing about 4-6 passes but what are some precautions I should take? Any advice will help. Thanks guys.
 
My car has orange peel too, as do a lot of other cars. The front end on my car was repainted. I've measured it with my PTG and it has a sufficient amount that I could safely remove the orange peel on the front end and still have a healthy amount of CC.

I just live with it though, it's not really a big deal to me. I'm more on seeing my paint sheet water when I am doing a 2BM and I'm more concerned about introducing swirls to the paint and since I have an extra amount of CC on the front end. I should have plenty to polish out if need be.

From my understanding once you remove the orange peel off your car. You've taken off CC and since it is OEM paint. Then you don't have infinite amount of times that you could keep compounding and polishing. But could be wrong.

The CarPro pads seem promising though but I have never tried them. I'd imagine if the orange peel was removed a coating would be a good choice to put on the paint to protect what is left.

Just my two pennies :D

Good Luck,

Art
 
If you don't want to rethink this removal of orange peel from the very thin film-layer of OEM clear-coat paint...

At least go with the recommended for OEM, and less aggressive, CarPro Velvet Pads.

Bob
 
I just don't feel like the velvet pads would work at all. I'd imagine I'd get the same results with a wool pad if I used the velvet ones since velvet is so soft.
 
I've never under stood why everyone wants to wet sand new cars when the paint jobs of most cars is crap and thin.
 
I just don't feel like the velvet pads would work at all. I'd imagine I'd get the same results with a wool pad if I used the velvet ones since velvet is so soft.

I imagine trying the least aggressive method would be a good start. Again I have never used these though. I only have wet sanding and damp sanding experience. :)

And test spots.
 
I just don't feel like the velvet pads would work at all. I'd imagine I'd get the same results with a wool pad if I used the velvet ones since velvet is so soft.
Don't discount the "hardening-factors" of the Velvet Pad's backing material...


Bob
 
Don't discount the "hardening-factors" of the Velvet Pad's backing material...


Bob

I forgot to mention I'm going to be using a PC DA. From what I read using a denim on a DA is like a velvet on a rotory. Which is why I said the velvet prob would do as much as a wool pad since it would be on a DA
 
IMO 3M Unigrit is a good way to sand.
I do all of my sanding by hand , I prefer it that way.
 
Here is a feww things Mike has said on the topic:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...hillips/74488-manufactuers-orange-peel-2.html
Good question and a valid one too...



The tricky part is ONLY removing the tops of the hills and not the valleys.



If you can do this over the entire car then hats off to you. Heck if you only do this to the gloss panels that would be enough for most people.





Here's the other tricky part about wetsanding factory paint. That is most factory paint is a lot harder than fresh paint, now follow me on this...




"Sanding is easy... that's putting scratches into the paint... the tricky part is getting them out" -Mike Phillips


I'd much rather wetsand and then compound and polish a fresh paint job than a car that was painted by a robot and then baked in an oven at 300+ degrees, (before any wiring, fabric or upholstery are installed).





Big picture....


Sanding removes some paint
Compounding removes some paint PLUS tends to create heat
Polishing removes a little paint
Final polishing removes a tiny bit of paint

So if you can do all of the above to the clear layer of paint that is not only hard but typically thinner than a 3M Post-it Note and this includes doing it around edges, corners and raised body lines, (a good place to use 3M Blue Vinyl Tape), and have it come out looking like you hope for and dream about then that's something to be proud of....







The factory sprayed clear layer of paint on most new cars averages around 2 mils. That's thinner than the average post-it note.











The next time you see a post-it note... feel it between your fingers... this is usually all it takes to drive home the point as to how thin the paint is on your beautiful, shiny car.









Good question and points...


Looks like you received some good info and opinion...



Here's my two cents...



I don't sand cars with factory paint to remove orange peel especially if the car in question is located in an geographical area of high or constant exposure to the sun.



When you go outside on a hot sunny day without any Sunscreen you've probably noticed your skin will get a sunburn. Even with a sunblock of some type with enough exposure you still get a sunburn.



Cars parked outside some or all of the time in areas of lots of sunshine are constantly exposed to the sun and this exposure takes its toll.



Clearcoat failure doesn't happen in one day, it's an accumulative effect. It happens slowly over time due to exposure to the sun and in my opinion a lack of quality care and regular care. Care meaning even simple things like regular washing and regular polishing and waxing.





Something to consider...

A smooth surface will resist corrosion or destruction better than a rough surface. Paint left uncared for doesn't get smoother with time...



What's the opposite of smoother with time?



Rougher with time.





Rough paint is more open or permeable than smooth paint and this doesn't help longevity.





In my opinion, considering the harsh exposure common daily drivers are exposed to I'm amazed and impressed at how well and how long most modern basecoat/clearcoat paint systems DO hold up. Especially in comparison of the only other paint system we've known since cars took the place of horses.





Paint manufactures have established that there needs to be a minimum of 2 mils of clear paint over the basecoat plus other underlying coatings to preserver the entire film-build or matrix of paint taking in the consideration of wear-n-tear plus corrective maintenance over the service life of the car. I've been told .5 mils can safely be removed and then if the paint is properly cared for it "can" hold up over the service life of the car. From what I've seen in my life that's pretty optimistic for daily drivers exposed to the elements 24 x 7.



It different for cars that are garage kept most of their lives. Less exposure, less damage equals longer life.



So you can dry sand or wetsand a factory clear coat finish, I've done it as have thousands of others. The issue is that all the UV inhibitors to protect the entire matrix of paint are in the clear layer. The more clear you remove the less protection is left to protect this matrix over the service life of the car.



So can it be done? Yes.



Should it be done? That's a decision only the owner of a car can make.





My recommendation is that if a factory clearcoat is going to be sanded to remove orange peel and thus create a more perfect finish with a higher D.O.I then here are some considerations the owner of said car should consider.





Are you willing to use high quality sanding products?

This means high quality sanding papers, discs or sheets. Quality sanding tools remove the peel without leaving deeper scratches. The point being to remove as little paint as possible and if your sanding tools leave deeper scratches then in order to remove them, more paint must be removed. High quality sanding tools leave in the paint uniform sanding pattern and sanding mark depth, meaning these can be removed faster while minimizing paint removal and also heat generation.



Are you willing to use high quality compounds?

Same as above, a quality compound will cut out the sanding marks and leave a polished looking finish meaning the job is almost complete while leaving the most paint on the car.



Inexpensive or what I call Caveman Compounds scratch and scour the paint. While they remove the sanding marks, they leave behind their own scratch pattern that will require more polishing or abrading to remove and this means removing more of the already thin precious layer of clearcoat paint.



Are you willing to regularly maintain the sanded finish

This is pretty straightforward, it means wash regularly with a clearcoat safe car wash and then regularly clean/polish the paint as needed to keep the surface clean and smooth and also keep the surface sealed using a quality car wax, synthetic paint sealant or paint coating.





Are you able to park the car out of direct sunlight as much as possible?

Hey if you have a garage full of accumulated "stuff" and for this reason the car is parked outside all the time then it's time to clean the garage out.





And then just to add, while the above considerations were written as to speak to the owner of the car doing the sanding, buffing and maintenance,e I'd like to point out that if the owner of the car is NOT going to do the above, then they should print this thread out and use the above considerations as a check-off list to see if the person they HIRE to do the work will be doing it in the way described above.





Make sense?



You can't take your car to a body shop or detail shop and simply assume they use the best products. The best costs more money and I've been to a lot of shops and take my word for it, you really want to do your homework on what the guy you hire is going to use or you're going to be starting a new thread about tracers, pigtails, holograms and burn-through.





That's my take....





If I'm going to wetsand a car I want to be part of the planning stage where the painter knows the car is going to be sanded and buffed and for this reason they will be spraying MORE clearcoat than normal. This means the owner of the car in most cases has discussed this with me before hand and is willing to pay the painter for these three things,




Time - When your car is in the paint booth that means they can't move another car into the paint booth. Time is money.
Labor - When the painter pulls the trigger on the paint gun and walks around the car that's labor.
Materials - More paint means more money.





Hope that helps you, (the OP), and anyone that reads this into the future...
 
I forgot to mention I'm going to be using a PC DA. From what I read using a denim on a DA is like a velvet on a rotory. Which is why I said the velvet prob would do as much as a wool pad since it would be on a DA
Have you read this article:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-using-porter-cable-dual-action-polisher.html
Velvet Pads
This style of pad is recommended for FACTORY thin and allow me to also remind everyone, FACTORY BAKED ON paints, which will tend to be harder than body shop paint jobs due to the paint technology and the much higher temperatures the paint is baked to dry and cure it.

CarPro Velvet Orange Peel Removal Pad – 5.25 Inches 2 Pack

Meguiar's M100

Porter Cable 7424XP

:)


Bob
 
Don't do it man if its a daily driver. Save the paint for future corrections. You should at least wait until you have serious damage and then maybe tackle the peel. Ignore the texture, admire the gloss.
 
i just hate that factory orange peel :( i want my paint to look like glass.
 
What do you think a Body Shop would charge to give you some PTG readings?
 
What do you think a Body Shop would charge to give you some PTG readings?

It isn't just about what you are starting with but checking your progress so you know to stop if you are removing more than you thought.



i just hate that factory orange peel :( i want my paint to look like glass.

How long do you want it to look perfect? By removing paint you reduce the ability to safely remove any minor scratches or swirls later. What if you accidentally go too far? Are you going to be bothered more by a strike through than the orange peel? You also shorten the life of the paint. Are you prepared to have to repaint the truck in a year or two? Are you going to want to go through all the work again? I'm guessing after doing it once you'll decide it isn't worth doing again. If you really want it to look like glass, spend the money to have it painted now with enough clear to be able to achieve the look you want and still be able to safely remove defects later.

The fact that many pros won't remove orange peel (except for certain circumstances) from factory paint should be a red flag. Proceed at your own risk.
 
So I have a black 09 ram 1500 with mild factory orange peel. It's always annoyed me after spending a day detailing it and then notice all the ripples in the paint.
i just hate that factory orange peel :( i want my paint to look like glass.
This vehicle has already undergone 5 years of fighting-off contaminates and "being touched":
-How long have you owned it?
-How much more "being touched" can the paint withstand?

Factory OEM-Orange Peel removal is some
"serious touching"...
As mentioned: Proceed with caution!!!


Bob
 
From my own experience having done high quality machine buffing/polishing for over 10 years I would either learn to live with it or get a different color.

It's a ton of work with a ton of risk sanding out factory orange peel. In my opinion the risk versus reward just isn't worth it. Factory clear coat is thin thin so if you strike through are you going to be able to live with it? Would you have it repainted? (No longer oem finish) and if you had it repainted would you be satisfied with the paint work?
I did this on my 2005 black GMC Yukon Denali. 130 hours later I had a beautiful black mirror. I got a lot of compliments but I was constantly working on keeping the paint perfect. Long story short. I recently sold the truck due to the demand for maintaining the finish. In the end I decided I could have either lived with the orange peel or got a different color. Remember it's not all about black paint. A good detailer can make pretty much any color stand out. Good luck


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using AG Online
 
From my own experience having done high quality machine buffing/polishing for over 10 years I would either learn to live with it or get a different color.

It's a ton of work with a ton of risk sanding out factory orange peel. In my opinion the risk versus reward just isn't worth it. Factory clear coat is thin thin so if you strike through are you going to be able to live with it? Would you have it repainted? (No longer oem finish) and if you had it repainted would you be satisfied with the paint work?
I did this on my 2005 black GMC Yukon Denali. 130 hours later I had a beautiful black mirror. I got a lot of compliments but I was constantly working on keeping the paint perfect. Long story short. I recently sold the truck due to the demand for maintaining the finish. In the end I decided I could have either lived with the orange peel or got a different color. Remember it's not all about black paint. A good detailer can make pretty much any color stand out. Good luck


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using AG Online

Wow!

Nice work

130 hours, you must have done every panel

I have been experimenting with the CarPro Denim on my FLEX 3401 with M105 on a couple inconspicuous areas of my '09 Denali

I like the results so far and the horizontal panels do not have noticeable OP.
 
So I have a black 09 ram 1500 with mild factory orange peel. It's always annoyed me after spending a day detailing it and then notice all the ripples in the paint. I want it to be perfect. Tomorrow I'm placing an order for some CQUK and a few other things. I was going to throw in a CarPro denim pad and M100 to remove the orange peel but I don't have a paint gauge. I can't imagine burning a hole right through the paint with a denim pad and doing about 4-6 passes but what are some precautions I should take? Any advice will help. Thanks guys.

I advise you against doing this. Once you remove all of the orange peel there will be very little left to work with if you ever want to correct the paint again. It's your truck, do as you wish :)
 
Wow!

Nice work

130 hours, you must have done every panel

I have been experimenting with the CarPro Denim on my FLEX 3401 with M105 on a couple inconspicuous areas of my '09 Denali

I like the results so far and the horizontal panels do not have noticeable OP.

Yes I did every panel. Section by section very methodically. It was tedious and at times frustrating. I took pics of the entire process for memory sake though
I've used the car pro pads on a black corvette. They seem to work Ok.
Here's a few more


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using AG Online
 
Back
Top