I use the Boss 3" backing plate and pads on my GG 6" DA polisher. I find that it gives a lot more cut than the 5" pads. I have a black MB with rock hard paint and I find 3" pads (MF pads) cut way quicker than the 5" pads. Depending on how serious your defects are they may or may not get them, but I find the 3" to give a lot more 'oomph' than the 5" (and definitely more than the 6") pads.
Fell for the sales pitch - Griots Garage Orbital
- Thread starter rduchateau2954
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I use the Boss 3" backing plate and pads on my GG 6" DA polisher. I find that it gives a lot more cut than the 5" pads. I have a black MB with rock hard paint and I find 3" pads (MF pads) cut way quicker than the 5" pads. Depending on how serious your defects are they may or may not get them, but I find the 3" to give a lot more 'oomph' than the 5" (and definitely more than the 6") pads.
rduchateau2954
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Maybe I'll bite the bullet and try those. Even if that doesn't take out the deeper part of the scratches how it performs on the shallower bits will tell me if wet sanding could be done.
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MarkD51
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Reading the last couple of responses you've written, your like of 3M, not using off the shelf products, etc, I'd like commenting some more.
As for polishes, I've basically used Menzerna, and Woflgang Polishes, which I understand the Wolfgang Polishes are made by Menzerna. Their Polish line is quite vast.
And I have little doubt that with the Griots D/A, and the right size aggressive Pads and Polishes, you could no doubt polish the clear coat right off your truck, and perhaps most of the color coat too if you worked long enough at it. On occasion
I've used Meguiars #205, but #205 is an ultra finishing last step polish, not suited for removal of more severe defects.
Sort of like Larry in the 3 Stooges when they were the Pip Boys, had a tailor shop, and Larry thought the mark on the pants was a stain, rubbed till he rubbed a hole right through the pants, and the mark was still there. Then he found out it was a ray of light shining through a window, and not a stain! Duh!
Sometimes, damage is severe enough, and deep enough, that no process, no product, and no tool will remove it, or remove all of it. And there's no Wax, Sealant, or Coating made that will protect the paint from things like I had happen to my last beater car, such as a cardboard box flying across the road at 40mph in a windstorm and hitting the backside of the car, or running headlong 65mph colliding into a tumbleweed the size of a giant Beach Ball doing 40mph on I-25 just south of Albuqueque, NM one afternoon.
In both instances, the damage went though both the clear coat, and color coat, nothing one can do but do the best you can to repair, and count your blessings I reckon that it wasn't worse, or worse yet, an accident.
I'd say before making a call, sleep on it some more. I believe the Griots 6" can serve you quite well once you fine tune processes and accompanying accessories, to then at least acquire a smaller 5" Backing Plate, a host of good Polishing Pads, such as the Lake Country Thinpro in their various colors-aggressiveness are very good.
And to acquire perhaps a couple-few more Polishes, one that perhaps may be more capable of addressing more severe paint damage. Probably the Menzerna FG-400 might be a good one. Compounds such as Meguiars #105 can commonly be gotten at the big box auto parts stores, and even some wally worlds carry it.
rduchateau2954
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I'll have to do some research on menzerna vs 3m. I hear y'all talk about it a lot.
The frustrating part about this is that I know with 100% certainty, with the exception of maybe the initial impact, I could get this out if I was in the shop with my rotary.
It's like the tiny coffee stain under my cup holders, if I had my extractor it would be gone, but the little Bissell pos shampooer I have from potty training my dog isn't up to the task.
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MarkD51
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The Menzerna Polishes are all of extreme high quality. Just a few from their line-up should cover most bases with anything that comes at you as far as paint correction needs.
Meguiars makes many fine polish products, as I understand 3M bought Meguiars a few years back. Problem with Meguiars often, is that when you walk into any auto store, or paint supply shop, you might only find a very limited selection. They carry a quite vast line of detailing products, many I was not even aware of and been a member here a good number of years. (#101 and #205 are both exemplary polishes)
The store here carries mostly all of them.
I don't believe any of the Menzerna Polishes (or Wolfgang-Blackfire) contain any fillers, so what you see is what you get, and not like some of the crap the car dealers use at current day, where a used vehicle looks great the day you buy it and drive away, and then the first wash after looks like swirl city.
I think one major aspect of your dislikes of the Griots D/A, is not yet getting fully dialed in with the right Pads, Plates, Chemicals, and learning-acclimating to this new tool. Many say the Griots 6" machine is a better choice than the Porter Cable because it possesses a more powerful motor.
rduchateau2954
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Hopefully picking up a Milwaukee rotary this afternoon.
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MarkD51
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View attachment 64489View attachment 64490
As a reminder, and as you probably already know well, an aggressive compound usually doesn't finish down LSP ready. Meaning a simple follow-up with a finishing polish is all.
Perhaps depends what product? Wolfgang Uber Compound is as its name states, a so called compound, but this one does finish down oh so nicely I've found. This one's always now in my personal arsenal of products.
There's different abrasive technologies, some are referred to as "DAT", (Diminishing Abrasive Technology) some are referred to as "SMAT" (Super Micro Abrasive Technology), and some I believe are even a hybridization-combo of the two.
DAT breaks down from larger clusters into smaller micro particles, starts out more abrasive then breaks down finishing well in its working cycle. SMAT will start with various size abrasive particles per formula, and doesn't break down through its working cycle,
I'd suspect your previous attempts with the Griots D/A only gave you what could be called a "glorified wax job" was all. Meaning you probably haven't done much in the way previously, of knocking down or diminishing much of the thickness of the clear coat to be much concerned about.
When I first got my Porter Cable D/A here from Autogeek and all the goodies to go with about 5 years ago, I knew jack about these newfangled D/A machines, never used one quite like them. I wasn't about to break it out first on my beloved Tahoe SUV, but had commonly used most, if not all the products, tools, and processes I've ever bought here on my once owned shitbox 2001 Kia Spectra instead.
The first time I did the Kia, with Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover, I only had a smaller backing plate and a few small 4" Pads to test. Got pretty good results, a striking difference from before, but as I found later, still no cigar cause I was still a cherry with this tool, and the combo of products, was still learning the ropes so to speak.
The second time around, re-thinking, studying some more, re-fining technique, and processes, I got better considerably. I wasn't about to give up, and I feel today it has all paid off.
After I began getting the results I sought, I had seriously considered selling my mint boat anchor Milwaukee Rotary. Put in on a local classifieds twice, and yanked the Ad twice, with the thought I'd be losing good money for what I paid for it, and that one day I might regret the sale, that I'd be needing it for some special purpose.
As a reminder, and as you probably already know well, an aggressive compound usually doesn't finish down LSP ready. Meaning a simple follow-up with a finishing polish is all.
Perhaps depends what product? Wolfgang Uber Compound is as its name states, a so called compound, but this one does finish down oh so nicely I've found. This one's always now in my personal arsenal of products.
There's different abrasive technologies, some are referred to as "DAT", (Diminishing Abrasive Technology) some are referred to as "SMAT" (Super Micro Abrasive Technology), and some I believe are even a hybridization-combo of the two.
DAT breaks down from larger clusters into smaller micro particles, starts out more abrasive then breaks down finishing well in its working cycle. SMAT will start with various size abrasive particles per formula, and doesn't break down through its working cycle,
I'd suspect your previous attempts with the Griots D/A only gave you what could be called a "glorified wax job" was all. Meaning you probably haven't done much in the way previously, of knocking down or diminishing much of the thickness of the clear coat to be much concerned about.
When I first got my Porter Cable D/A here from Autogeek and all the goodies to go with about 5 years ago, I knew jack about these newfangled D/A machines, never used one quite like them. I wasn't about to break it out first on my beloved Tahoe SUV, but had commonly used most, if not all the products, tools, and processes I've ever bought here on my once owned shitbox 2001 Kia Spectra instead.
The first time I did the Kia, with Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover, I only had a smaller backing plate and a few small 4" Pads to test. Got pretty good results, a striking difference from before, but as I found later, still no cigar cause I was still a cherry with this tool, and the combo of products, was still learning the ropes so to speak.
The second time around, re-thinking, studying some more, re-fining technique, and processes, I got better considerably. I wasn't about to give up, and I feel today it has all paid off.
After I began getting the results I sought, I had seriously considered selling my mint boat anchor Milwaukee Rotary. Put in on a local classifieds twice, and yanked the Ad twice, with the thought I'd be losing good money for what I paid for it, and that one day I might regret the sale, that I'd be needing it for some special purpose.
Calendyr
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For deep scratches like that, nothing beats wet sanding. You can take them out with a rotary polisher, but you are removing a lot more paint than you need to and you run a risk of burning through. Otherwise, when talking about removing swirls and very light scratches, the Long Throw Dual-Action polishers and the forced rotation polishers should give you a better result than the rotary. If you purchased a short throw one, then it will give the same result but it will take more time.
As for the ability to take out wet sanding scratches, that is completelly true. My main polisher died last month, I had to switch to my backup (Porter Cable) that is one of the weakest DA you can buy. I was able to remove 1500 grit sanding marks without effort using Meguiars Microfiber cutting disks and Meguiars D300 Compound. That compound is actually an AIO, it has very good cut but not as agressive as M105 or other super heavy cut compounds. I have never tried removing 1000 grit sanding marks but considering the ease to remove the 1500 ones, I would not be surprised it could be done without too much effort. Especially on a powerful machine like 21mm throw or forced rotation.
Remember there is a learning curve to everything. You mastered the Rotary, now you need to take the time to master the DA. I have a rotatry polisher (Dewalt) sitting in my toolbox and I never use it. I do need to get training on it, cause everytime I try to use it, I find it much less effective than my DA and I know I am risking damaging the paint which is not the case with my DA. After some training, I am sure I would like it, but again, all the years of experience I have on the DA are pretty much useless on the rotary. So we are in the same situation, just with opposite tools
As for the ability to take out wet sanding scratches, that is completelly true. My main polisher died last month, I had to switch to my backup (Porter Cable) that is one of the weakest DA you can buy. I was able to remove 1500 grit sanding marks without effort using Meguiars Microfiber cutting disks and Meguiars D300 Compound. That compound is actually an AIO, it has very good cut but not as agressive as M105 or other super heavy cut compounds. I have never tried removing 1000 grit sanding marks but considering the ease to remove the 1500 ones, I would not be surprised it could be done without too much effort. Especially on a powerful machine like 21mm throw or forced rotation.
Remember there is a learning curve to everything. You mastered the Rotary, now you need to take the time to master the DA. I have a rotatry polisher (Dewalt) sitting in my toolbox and I never use it. I do need to get training on it, cause everytime I try to use it, I find it much less effective than my DA and I know I am risking damaging the paint which is not the case with my DA. After some training, I am sure I would like it, but again, all the years of experience I have on the DA are pretty much useless on the rotary. So we are in the same situation, just with opposite tools
Dr Oldz
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3m polishes and compounds are really good. Are they the best?? That’s an opinion but there are better in my opinion. Newer compounds will cut better, dust less, have a longer work time and finish better.
3M Ultrafina is a special one tho. It’s my favorite final finishing polish(jeweling polish for those that prefer that term).
To the OP. If you can properly use a rotary and that’s what u prefer then by all means get one. But I suggest be open minded about using other machines. There are instances where one tool is better than the other. So it’s nice to have available options. It’s nice using a DA sometimes as it usually only requires one hand operation say for something like using just a paintwork cleansing lotion or a follow up polishing after a compounding.
3M Ultrafina is a special one tho. It’s my favorite final finishing polish(jeweling polish for those that prefer that term).
To the OP. If you can properly use a rotary and that’s what u prefer then by all means get one. But I suggest be open minded about using other machines. There are instances where one tool is better than the other. So it’s nice to have available options. It’s nice using a DA sometimes as it usually only requires one hand operation say for something like using just a paintwork cleansing lotion or a follow up polishing after a compounding.
rduchateau2954
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Hey all, my new to me rotary is in the truck. I'm going to start doing some research on compounds. Not stuck on 3m, it's just what I know.
I'm gonna keep the GG, no need to use the rotary every time, but I'm not gonna stop driving through the woods, and I'm not gonna stop having crazy, stupid dogs around. If I come across a killer deal on 3" backing plate and pads I may pick them for experiments.
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I'm gonna keep the GG, no need to use the rotary every time, but I'm not gonna stop driving through the woods, and I'm not gonna stop having crazy, stupid dogs around. If I come across a killer deal on 3" backing plate and pads I may pick them for experiments.
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dlc95
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- May 18, 2013
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Oh man, check out Menzerna 400, 2500, and 3500. Meguiar's M100, and M205 are also stellar.
MarkD51
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Keep us posted and let us know how all works out.
Finick
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D300 is an AIO? I thought D300 was a compound specifically formulated to work with microfiber pads and D301 was their AIO that you followed it up with? If that’s true that’s wild, lol. I had no idea.
On the topic of DAs - I only have a meguiars mt300, which has never really failed at removing anything for me. Just a standard 8mm throw, nothing special.
I’ve compounded out some pretty tough paints, the hardest being a VW Jetta for my friend before she sold it. A microfiber pad paired with some D300 did wonders and probably got her about 85-90% of the way there. I imagine that a 21mm throw machine would absolutely obliterate the defects, which makes me really want to have one (but I don’t need one, lol.)
I’ve also had really good success with Fast Correcting Cream, Ultimate Compound, and Pinnacle Advanced Compound with microfiber pads.
I’d love to see before and after pictures of your truck after you go over it with your rotary.
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dlc95
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No, you were right. D300 is a heavy cut compound
DaveT435
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Yes a three inch will give you more cut. I wouldn't want to do a whole vehicle with three inch pads. This would give you an option to try something different without having it cost you anything, provided I do have the extra plate, I'm pretty sure I do.
Honestly I haven't tried the 5" boss pads on a machine with an 8 mm throw. Personally I use a rotary for heavy correction especially on harder paints. Also learning to jewel paint with it.
I don't know what kind of vehicle you're working on judging by what you've used and the results it seems to be fairly hard paint. Different size pads and a little softer paint and you may like the results.
If I were able to get a perfect finish on every car with a rotary I may feel the same way you do.
Anyway, if you're interested just shoot me a PM with your information. It would take me a few days to get it shipped out but I would get the stuff to you.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Interesting thread...
I use rotary when I need speed and cut.
I use orbital when it's the right tool and the best tool for the job.
Demonstrated how to use the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher as a machine wet sander at the Roadshow Class this last weekend at Griot's Garage - worked like a charm. Used the same tool to show the class how to do a 3-step show car detail.
I use rotary when I need speed and cut.
I use orbital when it's the right tool and the best tool for the job.
Demonstrated how to use the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital Polisher as a machine wet sander at the Roadshow Class this last weekend at Griot's Garage - worked like a charm. Used the same tool to show the class how to do a 3-step show car detail.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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No need to feel like an idiot... The Griot's 6" random orbital polisher is a very capable machine. I looked at the pictures you posted, I actually edited your post and put a [BREAK] between each picture so they were not all jumbled up in your post.
The scratches you show are very deep and beyond the capability of ANY free spinning orbital. I doubt they can be 100% removed. The correct tool would be to sand first and then use a rotary to remove your sanding marks. Sanding has to be done VERY carefully because if that's a factory finish then the clear layer is thinner than a Post-it Note.
Keep the Griot's, its a great tool. I buffed out this old 2-door Plymouth using primarily this tool...
How to use Griot's Garage to detail your car - A detail job Richard Griot would be proud of!
Used it again on this old 2-door Chevy - in FACT - I chose this tool on PURPOSE to show people they didn't have to buy a $400.00+ tool to do show car detailing.
Review: BLACKFIRE One-Step Cleaner/Wax by Mike Phillips
Packing up ALL the cool tools including the Griot's 6" ROP and taking them and teaching them in all our classes.
Everything starts with abrasive technology but at some point you also need a tool.