Finishing Polish For A Beginner

[rangerbay]

Your making the right choice of the gg6. I have long throws, rotaries, etc. But use my gg6 on every car I do. Best overall polisher out there, in my opinion.

 

[custmsprty]

Appreciate all of the input! I'm convinced to go with the GG6 now instead of the maxshine and will be ordering griots 5in and 3in backing plates along with a set of 3.5" LC HDO pads. I know someone had mentioned to buy multiple pads and YES I will be doing that in the future if I start to do side work. But after speaking with the installer of Diamond Pro, he assured me that as long as I'm using a brush and cleaning my pads after every panel, there's no reason why the single 5.5" MF, blue foam and orange foam shouldn't allow me to do the entire vehicle. And now I will have a full set of the same pads in 3.5" as well. Does anybody have a recommendation on a good brush or are they all the same? I was going to just go with Gold Label Detailing Foam Pad Brush Amazon.com: Gold Label Detailing Foam Pad Cleaning Brush | DA Orbital Polishing Disc Cleaner | Works on Foam and Wool Pads: Automotive

With all do respect to the person who told you what I highlighted above, nothing could be further from the truth. Pads are one of the most important components to polishing paint. It's what's touching your paint and along with the polish giving you the results you are trying to achieve. Rule 1 in paint correction, you can never have enough pads. Rule 2, you can never clean a pad on the fly better than using a fresh pad. Heat is the enemy to a pad, product build up is an enemy to a pad. Saturation happens no matter how much you try to clean the pad. As saturation happens the pores clog and the pad becomes less effective as it loses its aggressiveness, these will all work to diminish pad life if not destroy them. So by using more pads an additional benefit is it actually extends the pads life cycle. This you will learn from trial and error when your pad over heats and it collapses in the center or flies across the garage because the epoxy broke down and the pad separated(ask me how I know that LOL). Rule 3, the pad collects debris as you use it so why rub embedded build up all over paint you are trying to polish? Just a note, I'm referring to foam pads in my above post.

Mike has a number of posts you can search for on the forum about this very subject.

Go to Mike's post #7 & #8

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...-cleaning-pads-during-use.html?highlight=pads

 

[vobro]

With all do respect to the person who told you what I highlighted above, nothing could be further from the truth. Pads are one of the most important components to polishing paint. It's what's touching your paint and along with the polish giving you the results you are trying to achieve. Rule 1 in paint correction, you can never have enough pads. Rule 2, you can never clean a pad on the fly better than using a fresh pad. Heat is the enemy to a pad, product build up is an enemy to a pad. Saturation happens no matter how much you try to clean the pad. As saturation happens the pores clog and the pad becomes less effective as it loses its aggressiveness, these will all work to diminish pad life if not destroy them. So by using more pads an additional benefit is it actually extends the pads life cycle. This you will learn from trial and error when your pad over heats and it collapses in the center or flies across the garage because the epoxy broke down and the pad separated. Rule 3, the pad collects debris as you use it so why rub embedded build up all over paint you are trying to polish?

Mike has a number of posts you can search for on the forum about this very subject.

Very well put, OP do yourself a favor and get at least 2 extra pads.

 

[PaulMys]

With all do respect to the person who told you what I highlighted above, nothing could be further from the truth. Pads are one of the most important components to polishing paint. It's what's touching your paint and along with the polish giving you the results you are trying to achieve. Rule 1 in paint correction, you can never have enough pads. Rule 2, you can never clean a pad on the fly better than using a fresh pad. Heat is the enemy to a pad, product build up is an enemy to a pad. Saturation happens no matter how much you try to clean the pad. As saturation happens the pores clog and the pad becomes less effective as it loses its aggressiveness, these will all work to diminish pad life if not destroy them. So by using more pads an additional benefit is it actually extends the pads life cycle. This you will learn from trial and error when your pad over heats and it collapses in the center or flies across the garage because the epoxy broke down and the pad separated. Rule 3, the pad collects debris as you use it so why rub embedded build up all over paint you are trying to polish? Just a note, I'm referring to foam pads in my above post.

Mike has a number of posts you can search for on the forum about this very subject.

Go to Mike's post #7 & #8

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...-cleaning-pads-during-use.html?highlight=pads

Couldn't agree with this more.

And, this is the exact reason I will go through roughly 20 pads while doing a full correction on my truck.

The more pads you use, the less work they do, the less wear they incur, and the better your final product becomes. :xyxthumbs:

 

[dlc95]

I already have The Last Cut compound and 2 edgeless 500 towels from the rag company for final wipe down. Along with Lake Country HDO 5.5" MF, Blue cutting foam, orange polishing foam pads. I've decided to go with the Griots 6" polisher and vented 5" backing plate along with their HD 3" backing plate. And yes, I'll be using IronX and claymagic fine grade. I plan on spending around $500 on equipment not including what I've already spent on the coating, TLC, and pads. I want to do this right. Instead of Carpro eraser, I will be using the final wipe down solvent that was provided to me by the dealer of the Diamond Pro Coating I'm using.

But thank you for the suggestion. I'll take a look at the Wolfgang total swirl remover. I am using wolfgang uber rinsless wash and diluting it, and using that as a quick detailer for after the car is coated and I ever need to touch up a spot.

I use a couple different polish set ups.

One is Menzerna 400, 2500, and 4000 (3500).

I believe the Menzerna is similar to the Wolfgang line. If so, you'd be in really good hands with either.

I love the Meguiar's M205, but there have been times it was difficult, and / or impossible for me to finish out with. Personally, I'm not about to go jumping through hoops to make it work. I want a product that will do the job out of the bottle.

That being said - M205 is usually that polish for me, but in those times of trouble 2500, will get the job done. The gloss from 3500 takes it a step further.

 

[dlc95]

Couldn't agree with this more.

And, this is the exact reason I will go through roughly 20 pads while doing a full correction on my truck.

The more pads you use, the less work they do, the less wear they incur, and the better your final product becomes. :xyxthumbs:

Yes, this is good advice - definitely pick up at least four of each. I rarely use all four per step, but it's nice to know they're there.

And actually I like to carry eight to twelve with me if I'm mobile.

If I'm in the garage at home I have a ridiculous amount at my disposal.

 

[Pchang978]

With all do respect to the person who told you what I highlighted above, nothing could be further from the truth. Pads are one of the most important components to polishing paint. It's what's touching your paint and along with the polish giving you the results you are trying to achieve. Rule 1 in paint correction, you can never have enough pads. Rule 2, you can never clean a pad on the fly better than using a fresh pad. Heat is the enemy to a pad, product build up is an enemy to a pad. Saturation happens no matter how much you try to clean the pad. As saturation happens the pores clog and the pad becomes less effective as it loses its aggressiveness, these will all work to diminish pad life if not destroy them. So by using more pads an additional benefit is it actually extends the pads life cycle. This you will learn from trial and error when your pad over heats and it collapses in the center or flies across the garage because the epoxy broke down and the pad separated(ask me how I know that LOL). Rule 3, the pad collects debris as you use it so why rub embedded build up all over paint you are trying to polish? Just a note, I'm referring to foam pads in my above post.

Mike has a number of posts you can search for on the forum about this very subject.

Go to Mike's post #7 & #8

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...-cleaning-pads-during-use.html?highlight=pads

Thanks for the Input. Makes perfect sense. So for one coupe, you’d recommend I have at least 4 of the same pad in both sizes (5.5,3.5”)?

 

[VISITOR]

you can never have enough pads and microfiber towels...

 

[PaulMys]

Thanks for the Input. Makes perfect sense. So for one coupe, you’d recommend I have at least 4 of the same pad in both sizes (5.5,3.5”)?

And then some.....

But 4 of each is a good start.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I wish I had a 5 dollar bill every time I waded into the murky confusion over the word

Filler

All compounds and polishes, even if they are "water-based" and state they don't have any fillers.... they all have some form of lubricating agents because without them the abrasives would simply SCOUR the scratch-sensitive "thing" you're buffing on. Yes, clearcoat paints are scratch-sensitive, it is the "thing" you're buffing on.

These lubricating agents or oils will also act to fill and this is normal but if you're applying a coating you can and will want to remove them. I would say most people that focus to deeply on fillers are forgetting what I call

The BIG PICTURE

What is the big picture? Here's a question,

Why do we polish paint? What is the SIMPLE answer not the anal retentive deep answer.


The above question is not a rhetorical question. Please someone take a stab at it.








In my detailing classes, I teach people to walk before they can run. I teach the simple 8mm free spinning orbital polishers like the Griot's Garage orbital polisher and then as we move through the day we use the RUPES long throw polishers followed by the Griot's BOSS long through polishers followed by the BEAST.

I do all of the above for a reason.

Me?

I think everyone should own a simple 8mm free spinning orbital polisher because it's simply so handy at so many things.

I wish FLEX would introduce one. I asked them to year ago when I has a SECRET meeting with the FLEX engineers. I brought this topic back up with Bob Eichelberg just about 2 weeks ago. Might be re-visiting the idea.

The issue with long stroke polishers is the outer edge of the pads gain leverage over the reciprocating components when buffing non-flat surfaces and cause pad stalling. With a short stroke polisher it's dramatically less of an issue.

I think I have an article on this topic somewhere?

Someone try looking up,

Ghosting Footprint RUPES Mike Phillips


Big picture = don't get caught up in the silliness of fillers. Focus on what's more important.

Here's the article I referenced above. Was kind of thinking someone would have and could have done the super sleuthing and found it...


The ghosting footprint and the actual footprint - Long Stroke Free Spinning Orbital Polishers


And the above ties back to this...

Flex 5 inch 8mm throw polisher!!

 

[Pchang978]

With all do respect to the person who told you what I highlighted above, nothing could be further from the truth. Pads are one of the most important components to polishing paint. It's what's touching your paint and along with the polish giving you the results you are trying to achieve. Rule 1 in paint correction, you can never have enough pads. Rule 2, you can never clean a pad on the fly better than using a fresh pad. Heat is the enemy to a pad, product build up is an enemy to a pad. Saturation happens no matter how much you try to clean the pad. As saturation happens the pores clog and the pad becomes less effective as it loses its aggressiveness, these will all work to diminish pad life if not destroy them. So by using more pads an additional benefit is it actually extends the pads life cycle. This you will learn from trial and error when your pad over heats and it collapses in the center or flies across the garage because the epoxy broke down and the pad separated(ask me how I know that LOL). Rule 3, the pad collects debris as you use it so why rub embedded build up all over paint you are trying to polish? Just a note, I'm referring to foam pads in my above post.

Mike has a number of posts you can search for on the forum about this very subject.

Go to Mike's post #7 & #8

https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...-cleaning-pads-during-use.html?highlight=pads

So I noticed in the link you provided, this pad clogging and needing to swap to a new one, seems to only apply to foam. So if I start out with 4-6 of each foam I’m going to use and just 1 microfiber in 3.5” and 5.5” will that be okay? That link seemed to say in so many words that MF can be cleaned and continuously used. And that’s what I’m assuming I’ll be using with the TLC on the corvette due to the hard paint

 

[MarkD51]

Just to add some, you make no mention of paint condition? We might all guess that this being a later model Corvette shouldn't be too trashed. But no two vehicles are identical, and without witnessing condition in person, it's hard for anyone to make an accurate judgement of what products and pads would be needed to attain desired results.

Thus, we all basically come back to the proverbial "test spot", with experimentation of different products and pad combos. Sometimes a one step process might get it done, and sometimes not.

Many, myself included might say to err on a 90% correction, rather than trying to go too far. And to err on gentler processes and products, rather than too aggressive.

That was why I personally suggested the gentler white ThinPro Pads from Lake Country versus their more aggressive Orange Pads. Cutting ability and agressiveness can then be adjusted with the polish used (let's say WG Uber Compound versus WG TSR) and as well working time per section passes. Keep in mind too, that you can always repeat a process, let's say the hood has more noticeable swirling-marring than other panels.

I'd personally only go to an Orange Pad (or MF Pads) if a paint was quite trashed and in need of more aggressive correction initially.

As others have wisely mentioned, heat and product build up do quickly damage-destroy foam pads.

As Mike Phillips once quoted, "In a perfect world, one panel, one pad". Better to have more than is needed, than not enough. Of course a pad can be washed and dried, but this interrupts and considerably slows a detailing process, and perhaps is not quite so critical if you have nothing but time and can take numerous days to complete the polishing processes.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Not to hi jack thread but since a lot of pro’s and long timers here and to keep from a similar post in March.

I see the multiple pads being quoted ALOT. “One pad per panel.” A hood and front fender have a big difference in area. My personal plan is one for hood, one for rear and front bumper, 2 for each side while brushing pad between each roughly 2x2 section. Will be using orange and green LC CCS smart pads (Have 6 B&S MF pads on deck if more aggression needed) on a boss 15. Will be picking up 3” for curves (most likely using B&S Uro-Fiber pads). This is for a 16 black convertible Mustang. Would appreciate “likes” just to confirm if this is a sound plan or not.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SWETM]

so I noticed in the link you provided, this pad clogging and needing to swap to a new one seems to only apply to foam. So if I start out with 4-6 of each foam I’m going to use and just 1 microfiber in 3.5” and 5.5” will that be okay? That link seemed to say I’m so many words, that MF can be cleaned and continuously used. And that’s what I’m assuming, I’ll be using with the TLC on the corvette due to the hard paint

The same with mf polishing pads. They are on a foam interface and the mf threads gets clogged with clearcoat residue and dirt and compound residue. So when you start to clean with the brush or use an air compressor to blow clean them. You will notice that the mf get matted down and will not be rising up as in the beginning. This indicate the need to be switching the pad. And as with the foam pad you will notice a much lesser cut from the mf pad too. Then a mf cutting pad produce heat more than a foam pad from the beginning so when getting matted down it will be producing even more heat in the pad and on the paint. You will notice this when trying to stretch the work time on the pads. Most of us has done it. And pads are getting very expensive if only going to be lasting one polishing session. If cared and used properly a pad has a great durability. But if over used and misstreated in other ways it will have a big effect on the lifetime of the pad. It's hard to say how many pads is needed. Generally 1 per panel I go after when it's the first pad used on the paint. If a second step is done you have cleaned the paint and useally you can go with 1 pad per 2 panels. But this can be varied a lot and is not a blue print of it. It's just too many variables to count in. So the more pads the better and switch out as needed. And it is a lot of money to be putting in on pads in the beginning.

 

[MarkD51]

Not to hi jack thread but since a lot of pro’s and long timers here and to keep from a similar post in March.

I see the multiple pads being quoted ALOT. “One pad per panel.” A hood and front fender have a big difference in area. My personal plan is one for hood, one for rear and front bumper, 2 for each side while brushing pad between each roughly 2x2 section. Will be using orange and green LC CCS smart pads (Have 6 B&S MF pads on deck if more aggression needed) on a boss 15. Will be picking up 3” for curves (most likely using B&S Uro-Fiber pads). This is for a 16 black convertible Mustang. Would appreciate “likes” just to confirm if this is a sound plan or not.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True, you're reminding us all of the use of some common sense.

I think one troubling thought that we've all gone through when we all started, is the mounting costs, and it's like "Oh boy, I have to spend multiple hundreds of dollars on tools and product to do my vehicle, this is crazy?!" And is it worth it?

Such might make a person think that they're better off just taking it to a professional shop, and be done with it.

As is known though, the costs are for a long investment of having these tools and products on hand for multiple uses, multiple vehicles and over a long stretch of time.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

so I noticed in the link you provided, this pad clogging and needing to swap to a new one seems to only apply to foam. So if I start out with 4-6 of each foam I’m going to use and just 1 microfiber in 3.5” and 5.5” will that be okay? That link seemed to say I’m so many words, that MF can be cleaned and continuously used. And that’s what I’m assuming, I’ll be using with the TLC on the corvette due to the hard paint

I'm a little behind the times with some of the newer microfiber pads out there, but I would disagree--MF pads get dirty and at some point need more than just having excess dust blown out of them--they need to be washed. I know you don't want to buy too many pads, so let's compromise--if you won't be using the 3" pads on a lot of the car (which may not be true for a Corvette), then you don't need to have an equal number of large and small pads. Also, if you're not going to be doing the whole car in one day, then you can buy less pads because you can clean them and let them dry between polishing sessions.

I sympathize that you want to buy all your supplies in one shot, but there is some learning curve here, and variable conditions with the vehicle, and you may not be able to get it dialed in exactly until you actually start doing it, and may find out that you need to change your approach slightly.

 

[Pchang978]

I'm learning a lot from this thread. Glad I decided to post something on here. I think my game plan is to order all of my materials and go with the menzerna 3500 for polish. I'm going to do test panels on the hood one day and figure out what pad combo for the TLC and menzerna works out of the 3 I have. And then order about 3-4 more of each one in both sizes and do the car at a later date and knock it out in one day. Thanks for all of the advice everyone!

 

[MarkD51]

I'm learning a lot from this thread. Glad I decided to post something on here. I think my game plan is to order all of my materials and go with the menzerna 3500 for polish. I'm going to do test panels on the hood one day and figure out what pad combo for the TLC and menzerna works out of the 3 I have. And then order about 3-4 more of each one in both sizes and do the car at a later date and knock it out in one day. Thanks for all of the advice everyone!

There's a number of great polishing systems out there today made by numerous manufacturers. Optimum, Griots Boss System, and numerous others.

Quite likely as has been rumored, the Wolfgang line, and probably other Autogeek PBMG brands have polishes manufactured by Menzera.

Their selections of polishes may not be as vast as Menzerna though. That can be confusing too. Menz 3500 will be an optimal last step polish for getting every last little bit of gloss from the paint. Usually such polishes as this are intended to be used with the least aggressive pads. 3500 is not particularly intended for deeper RIDS (Random Isolated Defects) removal.

In the Wolfgang line-up, probably what would be closely similar to 3500 would be WG Finishing Glaze.

Wolfgang Uber is sort of in a class of its own, a sort of "hybrid polish", consisting of both SMAT (Super Micro Abrasive Technology) and DAT (Diminishing Abrasive Technology)

Uber starts out acting like a more aggressive "compound" and the larger abrasive clusters break down and diminish, getting finer and finer as the product is worked. It then mimics a very fine finishing polish as it breaks down and is worked.

Besides Menz 3500, if this is the one you will choose, I might also consider one that's slightly more aggressive to also have on hand within their line-up.

 

[Pchang978]

From what I've seen, I believe the last cut will be everything that I need whether it be aggressive or not. It really does change with pad selection and is an incredible product. I've seen it remove aggressive paint defects and I've also seen it finish out a C7 Z06 perfectly with the orange LC HDO polishing pad and go straight to coating. I'm just purchasing the menzerna 3500 as a just in case for a final finish.

 

[MarkD51]

From what I've seen, I believe the last cut will be everything that I need whether it be aggressive or not. It really does change with pad selection and is an incredible product. I've seen it remove aggressive paint defects and I've also seen it finish out a C7 Z06 perfectly with the orange LC HDO polishing pad and go straight to coating. I'm just purchasing the menzerna 3500 as a just in case for a final finish.

I'll say give it a go, and see how all turns out. Wishing you the best, please keep us all posted.