Flex 3401 vs 4inch backing plate system carnage

I have to admit I've never understood the need for the "system".

I have the original backing plate for my Flex (of course) and the 4 3/8 plate. I literally just change out plates as needed. There's only one piece- the backing plate.

I use the original bolt and washer with both. Works perfectly.
 
DetailKitty said:
I have to admit I've never understood the need for the "system".

I have the original backing plate for my Flex (of course) and the 4 3/8 plate. I literally just change out plates as needed. There's only one piece- the backing plate.
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I may not be remembering this right, but I think the LC system came out before Flex came out with the smaller plate. There was also briefly an Edge adapter for the Flex, of course that was back when there were Edge pads.

(EDIT: This is wrong, the small Flex plate came out 10 months before the LC system; see below)
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I may not be remembering this right, but I think the LC system came out before Flex came out with the smaller plate. There was also briefly an Edge adapter for the Flex, of course that was back when there were Edge pads.
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Well that would make sense then.
 
Mike@DedicatedPerfection said:
:iagree:

Honestly there is no need to run speed 6 to correct the entire vehicle. Maybe just maybe, for spot repair but nothing more than speed five for the vehicle.

I'm still on the original release LC backing plate system with single washer for both plates and have had no issue. Same goes for the Hybrid pads. Still original release pads from '11.
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Me too... although my machine gets a LOT less use than yours does Mike. ;)

Still can't figure the need for wide open on the 3401. Considering the pad never stops, EVER... and we should using the least aggressive approach... which can actually be 3.5 or 4, (especially with the smaller pads). Not saying you CAN'T run it faster from time to time. just that you really don't need to.

I'd rather just run it slow, move the arms slow, keep the pressure constant... and take the time to let the pad do the work.

7PaintGuns said:
Jeeze, how much is that gonna cost me. How many buffers do we need. How about a metal BP direct from FLEX?
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How many buffers do we need? Heeeeeheheheeeeheeee haaaaaaa haaaaaa yeah.... about that. ;) I know I tell CarMomma I *need* many more than I use on every thing I touch.

Haaaaaaaaaa.... a metal BP?!?! Wowzaaa!!!! Considering how much heat the 3401 builds up (and holds) in the metal shroud already.... I can't begin to imagine what a metal backing plate would end up doing. (The new Flex actually has a redesigned shroud, plastic, with vents... stating they wanted something that'd run cooler.)

I'm betting Velcro failure, as well as a lot of pad melting would come into play in a hurry. ;)
 
cardaddy said:
Me too...

Haaaaaaaaaa.... a metal BP?!?! Wowzaaa!!!! Considering how much heat the 3401 builds up (and holds) in the metal shroud already.... I can't begin to imagine what a metal backing plate would end up doing. (The new Flex actually has a redesigned shroud, plastic, with vents... stating they wanted something that'd run cooler.)

I'm betting Velcro failure, as well as a lot of pad melting would come into play in a hurry. ;)
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I was thinking of somthing along the lines of a Hutchinson or 3M style BP. Don't make fun of us stupid painters! We're painters for a reason!:cry:
 
cardaddy said:
Me too... although my machine gets a LOT less use than yours does Mike. ;)

Still can't figure the need for wide open on the 3401. Considering the pad never stops, EVER... and we should using the least aggressive approach... which can actually be 3.5 or 4, (especially with the smaller pads). Not saying you CAN'T run it faster from time to time. just that you really don't need to.

I'd rather just run it slow, move the arms slow, keep the pressure constant... and take the time to let the pad do the work.
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I to do corrections daily. Not typically exotics on a daily basis but no shortage of Audi, BMW, infinity, Lexus, Mercedes, Volvo to name a few brands lol. For this vehicle after doing initial test spots I figured I could get away with orange hybrid with moderate pressure on higher speed to take care of the spots damaged by snow brush(wish I took before pics) I could have easily bumped up to a LC MF pad to correct on lower speeds. However rest of the vehicle didn't need that. So places I needed more aggressive defect removal I bumped up the speed (hood, tops of fenders, doors right above the handles and the hatch below the rear wiper) when I cut I try and keep as uniform as possible(same pad, product) for this vehicle I used mainly speed 5 to correct with slow overlapping passes however deeper defects as mentioned above hit them one pass on speed 6 rather than multiple passes on lower speed. Here's how she turned out!











To finish the Audi I changed back over to the stock BP and continued with the larger hybrid pads orange then white to finish. My local supplier came by and took the kit back and is replacing free of charge. I gonna give it another try.
 
That's too bad about those 4" backing plates. What's more unfortunate is you can only use the LC hybrid 5" pads on the LC 4" backing plate and not on the factory 4 3/8" backing plate. Guess I wont be using those 5" pads.
 
Okay so I literally just took my Flex out of the box... If you're running at speed 6 for an extended amount of time you should buy a rotary to compliment. I can see how a BP would fail with all that "agitation". But maybe that's just from my years of rotary use.
 
Speed preference aside, if the backing plate cannot handle the max speed of the machine it was made for then it should come with a advisory on it.
I've had 2 fail with felt ring oiled, and plates installed with the proper washers and bolts. 1 after a panel and a 1/2 on speed 6. The other after about a month of work going no more than speed 5.
 
If you over torqued it, I could see it causing this with the heat catalyst.
 
cardaddy said:
Me too... although my machine gets a LOT less use than yours does Mike. ;)

Still can't figure the need for wide open on the 3401. Considering the pad never stops, EVER... and we should using the least aggressive approach... which can actually be 3.5 or 4, (especially with the smaller pads). Not saying you CAN'T run it faster from time to time. just that you really don't need to.

I'd rather just run it slow, move the arms slow, keep the pressure constant... and take the time to let the pad do the work.
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That's what I really like about using the Menzerna range. FG400 runs at a slower speed while SF4000 runs at a faster rate. I never exceed speed 4 on the 3401 which allows the machine to run cooler and I can give it all the downward pressure I want without worrying about pad stall. I can sit on it for that matter and it will still maintain pad rotation.

And with SF4000 it likes a faster speed and I usually run speed 5 with it. In this step running at a faster clip doesn't faze the machine as with this step you are polishing the surface and all that downward pressure isn't needed. Get 'er set up to polish and let 'er eat.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...rning-3401-menzerna-products-hybrid-pads.html
 
When I answered previously I was on my phone. I"ve been out here in Californial since November 27th. Today is December 4th. So I have not had a lot of time behind my computer with a larter monitor than what my phone provides.



We're in-between shootinig our TV show so I have some time this morning to jump on the forum and see what's going on. I chose to revisit this thread.

Now that I'm behind an actual monitor and have some time to look at the below pictures I have an observation.

In the below picture, the bolt is NOT supposed to go into the ADAPTER. It's supposed to go into the backing plate.


kosmetikwerks said:
I'll let some of the pictures I took speak for itself!!

Click to expand...



Below is a picture from an article I wrote on this forum and it's also in my Flex how-to book.

New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401

NewFlexBackingPlates03.jpg



NewFlexBackingPlates04.jpg



The protruding tabs lock into the slots on the interface plate and then both are bolted to the spindle.
NewFlexBackingPlates05.jpg





HERE
See how the bolt goes into the backing plate. This then sandwiches the backing plate against the adapter to hold the two components to the tool.


NewFlexBackingPlates06.jpg




The picture the OP is showing shows the bolt being attached to the adapter.

So maybe I'm not understanding the picture shared by kosmetikwerks?


:dunno:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
When I answered previously I was on my phone. I"ve been out here in Californial since November 27th. Today is December 4th. So I have not had a lot of time behind my computer with a larter monitor than what my phone provides.



We're in-between shootinig our TV show so I have some time this morning to jump on the forum and see what's going on. I chose to revisit this thread.

Now that I'm behind an actual monitor and have some time to look at the below pictures I have an observation.

In the below picture, the bolt is NOT supposed to go into the ADAPTER. It's supposed to go into the backing plate.






Below is a picture from an article I wrote on this forum and it's also in my Flex how-to book.

New 4" and 6" Backing Plates for Flex 3401



HERE
See how the bolt goes into the backing plate. This then sandwiches the backing plate against the adapter to hold the two components to the tool.


NewFlexBackingPlates06.jpg




The picture the OP is showing shows the bolt being attached to the adapter.

So maybe I'm not understanding the picture shared by kosmetikwerks?


:dunno:
Click to expand...

Hey Mike! Look a little closer at that picture. It actually melted then separated you can see the a bit of the backing plate that is left sandwiched between the bolt/washer and the adaptor. I took multiple pictures if you want to review kinda hard to see from that picture alone.
 
Boejoula said:
Maybe I need to look into Mike's book on the flex because I use the flex on speed 6 for cutting all day with M105. I will try it on slower speeds and see how it does.
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When I write how-to directions for using a tool I always recommend a RANGE of speeds not a single exact speed. (Except for the Porter Cable 7424XP and the Cyclo polisher. Normally for these two tools you'll WANT and need to be on the highest speed setting to do correction work)


The reason I recommend a range is because,


People are different


That said, the majority of time I use the Flex 3401 for correction work on on the speed 6 setting.

Why?

Because there's something to be said for SPEED.

I don't have the time to spend more time to do the correction step when I can get it done faster by spinning the pad against the paint faster and thus abrading the paint faster.


Mike aka smack recommends using slower speeds for his smack technique and if that works for him and anyone else that uses the slower speeds then that's perfectly okay. But my point is,

Sometime there's something to be said for SPEED.


I buffed this old 2-door Chevy out from start to finish in 5.5 hours. I could NOT have done it this fast using the 4 speed setting for the correction step. NO WAY.

1969 Corvette Stingray - Cobra Clay Mitt Review

watermark.php




I buffed out this old 2-door Packard in 5.5 hours from start to finish and there's NO WAY I could have done it that fast if I had doddled along on the 4 setting for the correction step.


3D HD Adapt and Poxy Review - 1940 Packard Streetrod detailed by Mike Phillips

watermark.php




Boejoula said:
I think I'm going to stay away from the LC plates for a while, too.

Was thinking about getting them until seeing how many people have had problems.
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I think you're discounting a perfectly fine product. There were issues with the 6" backing plates but there is not trend for issues with the 4" backing plates.



cardaddy said:
Still can't figure the need for wide open on the 3401.
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See what I wrote above about speed...



roguegeek said:
That's too bad about those 4" backing plates. What's more unfortunate is you can only use the LC hybrid 5" pads on the LC 4" backing plate and not on the factory 4 3/8" backing plate.

Guess I wont be using those 5" pads.
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I wouldn't be without the 4" backing plates because there's simply too many times with a 5" pad is the best size match for the panel to be buffed.

Going on 4 years now I teach a class at Mobil Tech Expo called,

How to turn your Flex 3401 into a money making machine

And part of the equation is having two Flex 3401 polishers. One set up with the factory backing plates to turn 6.5" Hybrid pads and the other set up with the 4" backing plate to turn 5" Hybrid pads.

I can also tell you that my friend Marius uses the 4" backing plates with 5" Hybrid pads a lot when buffing out Wayne Carini's car projects.


wytstang said:
I am so glad I did not pull the trigger on the kit for BF sales.

There were 2 reviews on AG and both said they melted/busted. Instead I went with some 6.5 Hybrid pads to be safe.

Looks like that move was the right one.
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Are you sure the 2 reviews you read for for the 4" backing plates and not the 6" backing plates?

Lake Country has discontinued offering the 6" backing plates. To be honest there was never a "need" for a 6" backing plate so it's no big deal the backing plate is no longer around.

What a guy needs is the factory baking plate that comes with the tool when you purchase it and the 4" backing plate in order to use the 5" Hybrid pads.

:)
 
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