Flex 3401 with MF pads?

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titanlok

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Dear folks, anyone of you using the Flex 3401 with MF pads?
I have few Meguairs MF pads which I used to pair with 110V2 and I thought I can use it on 3401 to achieve something more.

However I had tried few times and I think 3401 don't really like MF pads! With MF pads, the 3401 is simply too hard to control as it will just run away if you are not flat enough! I also cannot finish out nicely with the MF pads a it always leave me some hologram. LC CC pads that comes with my package is much easier to use.

My own conclusion is, 3401 is so powerful that when used with THINNER pad like MF pads, the CUSHION of the pad is simply not enough to absorb the extra power from the 3401 and make it hard to control, just like controlling a mad cow! It might be good for spot correction though since MF pad is more aggressive than foam pad.

Hope you guys can share your experience! Cheers!
 
Thin MF pads don't work well with the Flex from my experience. Some would argue that MF pads in general don't work well with the Flex.

I find the thicker varieties (ie Optimum or B&S) works better in the sense that they make the Flex easier to control.

Working with MF pads on the Flex actually made my general polishing technique better. It forced me to learn how to keep the pad flat to the surface.
 
titanlok said:
Dear folks, anyone of you using the Flex 3401 with MF pads?
I have few Meguairs MF pads which I used to pair with 110V2 and I thought I can use it on 3401 to achieve something more.
Click to expand...

I have used them in the past and I do not like using them on the 3401. Thick or thin, does not matter.

The thin mf pads are better suited on the G110v2. Thicker mf pads play better with the forced rotation of the Flex.

However I had tried few times and I think 3401 don't really like MF pads! With MF pads, the 3401 is simply too hard to control as it will just run away if you are not flat enough! I also cannot finish out nicely with the MF pads a it always leave me some hologram. LC CC pads that comes with my package is much easier to use.
Click to expand...

As mentioned above, I simply do not like mf pads on the 3401. If you need a bit more cut than what a foam pad can provide, pick up some of the Lake Country Hybrid wool pads. The 3401 has the power to effectively use wool.

My own conclusion is, 3401 is so powerful that when used with THINNER pad like MF pads, the CUSHION of the pad is simply not enough to absorb the extra power from the 3401 and make it hard to control, just like controlling a mad cow! It might be good for spot correction though since MF pad is more aggressive than foam pad.

Hope you guys can share your experience! Cheers!
Click to expand...

Agreed. Thin pads do not play well with the 3401.

psnt1ol said:
Some would argue that MF pads in general don't work well with the Flex.
Click to expand...

I am one of those. The Hybrid pads are where its at. :xyxthumbs:

Working with MF pads on the Flex actually made my general polishing technique better. It forced me to learn how to keep the pad flat to the surface.
Click to expand...

Good to hear that this combo improved your technique.
 
This topic was discussed and the different types of pads, (thick and thin), were compared side-by-side in one of our Thursday night projects.

I purposefully set the polishers up with thin and thick pads and had other guys do the buffing so you could get their take on the topic. I had already formed my own opinion.​

When the microfiber pad craze hit its peak I had already tested both thick and thin pads and the term grabby was coined to describe the buffing experience when using thin microfiber pads on gear-driven dual action polishers like the Flex 3401 and Makita BO6040.

My findings were thin pads don't work well with gear-driven dual action polishers. Thicker pads do feel better when you buff but you can get everything done with the right LC Hybrid FOAM pads and simply avoid the hassle.


Here's the thread from almost 3 years ago....


2012 Dodge Challenger + Menzerna Color Lock Makeover


From post #2


Test Spot
Next up we did some testing and I had Robert and Paul compare the Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on identical tools, the Flex 3401.

The difference was that one polisher had the THICK LC Ultra Microfiber Pad and the other polisher had the THIN Ultra Microfiber Pad.

If you want to know which one works best I'll let you post the question and I'll let Robert and Paul tell you their opinioins...

After some testing we buffed out the car using Menzerna SI 1500 with Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on both the Flex 3401 and the Griot's DA Polisher and then followed that using Lake Country 5.5" white foam polishing pads with Menzerna SF 4000 and then sealed the paint using Menzerna Color Lock machine applied using Lake Country 5.5" Blue Finishing Pads on Griot's DA Polishers.


Here's Robert testing out the thick LC Ultra MF Pads and Paul testing out the thin LC Ultra MF Pads

2012_Challenger_Makeover_019.jpg



Robert is very good behind any polisher and always focuses on using good technique...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_020.jpg



Look at the THICK foam core for this MF Pad...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_021.jpg




Below is the thin MF pad as the foam core is much thinner than the thicker version...

NOTE: The linting is normal when breaking in a new LC Ultra Microfiber Pad

2012_Challenger_Makeover_022.jpg



Then I had both guys switch keeping all other variables the same except the thickness and thinness of the foam backing of the pads.

2012_Challenger_Makeover_023.jpg



Robert with the thin pad...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_024.jpg


Paul with the thick pad...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_025.jpg


2012_Challenger_Makeover_026.jpg



:)
 
Robert and Paul were the two guys doing the comparison testing of thin versus thick microfiber pads, here's their comments quoted from the same thread...


Impressions said:
The thicker pad seemed to glide right over the paint and even with the forced rotation of the Flex 3401 it was a pleasure to use!

Thumbs up to LC for coming up with that one
Click to expand...



Sailfish said:
Thanks Mike, I found that the thick pad from LC was much easier to work with while using the forced rotation of the Flex 3401. T
he LC pad was not grabby and contoured nicely with the body lines on the hood, front valance, plastic hood nose and wheel area.

Conversely the thin pad though nice was very grabby with any contour change in the body panel.

So if safe is the game I would opt for the thick pads, since I saw no real difference in the thick (LC) pads and the thin pads ability to cut into the clear coat.
Click to expand...


There you go... a blast from the past...

If you're going to use microfiber pads on the Flex 3401 or any forced rotation, gear-driven dual action polishers stick with the microfiber pads that have a thick foam backing.


And the car? It came out great....

2012_Challenger_Makeover_051.jpg


2012_Challenger_Makeover_052.jpg


2012_Challenger_Makeover_053.jpg



2012_Challenger_Makeover_056.jpg




On Autogeek.net

Menzerna Color Lock Carnauba Wax

Menzerna Compounds & Polishes

Lake Country Thick Core Ultra Microfiber Pads

Lake Country Flat Pads

Flex 3401 Forced Rotation DA Polisher

Griot's Garage DA Polisher

Super Soft Deluxe Green Microfiber Towels with Rolled Edges - 3 Pack

Microfiber Gloves 6 Pairs

Pinnacle Ultra Poly Detailing Clay

Pinnacle Clay Lube


2012_Challenger_Makeover_065.jpg



:xyxthumbs:
 
I have only used the thick BnS pads on the Flex and got great results.


Pre:



Post:

 
If you want to use MF pads, your best bet is using them with a random orbital(non-forced rotation polisher).
 
I agree with everything said. I only have the thin pads as of now and I noticed the movement with the Flex that all of you are describing. I will try the thicker foam pads when I make my next order.

On the plus side the correction time was so much quicker than foam, it was much easier on my bad back making two or three section passes rather than six or eight with foam. I got the same correction with less than half of the section passes. When I got to a curve in a panel I had to tilt the machine on its edge to work it, didn't like that much although it did work.

You guys with bad backs will understand this more, when bending over anything less than perfectly vertical the pain builds pretty fast. That was the only benefit that I see for me. I have so many foam pads still in the plastic packages I don't have any choice but to use them and don't plan of switching to MF but I see it as another good option.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
This topic was discussed and the different types of pads, (thick and thin), were compared side-by-side in one of our Thursday night projects.

I purposefully set the polishers up with thin and thick pads and had other guys do the buffing so you could get their take on the topic. I had already formed my own opinion.​

When the microfiber pad craze hit its peak I had already tested both thick and thin pads and the term grabby was coined to describe the buffing experience when using thin microfiber pads on gear-driven dual action polishers like the Flex 3401 and Makita BO6040.

My findings were thin pads don't work well with gear-driven dual action polishers. Thicker pads do feel better when you buff but you can get everything done with the right LC Hybrid FOAM pads and simply avoid the hassle.


Here's the thread from almost 3 years ago....


2012 Dodge Challenger + Menzerna Color Lock Makeover


From post #2


Test Spot
Next up we did some testing and I had Robert and Paul compare the Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on identical tools, the Flex 3401.

The difference was that one polisher had the THICK LC Ultra Microfiber Pad and the other polisher had the THIN Ultra Microfiber Pad.

If you want to know which one works best I'll let you post the question and I'll let Robert and Paul tell you their opinioins...

After some testing we buffed out the car using Menzerna SI 1500 with Lake Country Ultra Microfiber Pads on both the Flex 3401 and the Griot's DA Polisher and then followed that using Lake Country 5.5" white foam polishing pads with Menzerna SF 4000 and then sealed the paint using Menzerna Color Lock machine applied using Lake Country 5.5" Blue Finishing Pads on Griot's DA Polishers.


Here's Robert testing out the thick LC Ultra MF Pads and Paul testing out the thin LC Ultra MF Pads

2012_Challenger_Makeover_019.jpg



Robert is very good behind any polisher and always focuses on using good technique...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_020.jpg



Look at the THICK foam core for this MF Pad...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_021.jpg




Below is the thin MF pad as the foam core is much thinner than the thicker version...

NOTE: The linting is normal when breaking in a new LC Ultra Microfiber Pad

2012_Challenger_Makeover_022.jpg



Then I had both guys switch keeping all other variables the same except the thickness and thinness of the foam backing of the pads.

2012_Challenger_Makeover_023.jpg



Robert with the thin pad...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_024.jpg


Paul with the thick pad...

2012_Challenger_Makeover_025.jpg


2012_Challenger_Makeover_026.jpg



:)
Click to expand...

I love it when you chime in and give an in depth analysis with pictures. :buffing::dblthumb2:
 
I've been experimenting with MF pads on my Flex and have found the key to the pad running smoothly is keeping it wet. When the pad starts drying out the machine is difficult to control but when kept wet it runs fine.

For me, the verdict is still out on MF pads, while keeping the pads wet I am wasting product plus I'm not sure how much correction I'm getting with too much product on the pads.

Another thing someone else mentioned is the pads get water logged and need to be changed often, much more than foam. I can't just dry them when I clean them with a cotton towel, like foam.

They work but for me I think foam is easier to manage. With a fresh MF pad, correction is a little faster but the other issues are worth considering. Just not sure yet. They both have their good points.
 
Guys, thanks for all the sharing! I knew what I should buy for my Flex now!

1) LC 5" Hybrid Pad
2) Menzerna FG400, SF4000
 
I'm curious at to what speed you guys are running the Meg's MF pads in the Flex? I don't go any faster than 4.5 and have no issue at all with running them on my Flex. I've even used the Xtra Cut ones as well.
 
Garyhw48 said:
On the plus side the correction time was so much quicker than foam, it was much easier on my bad back making two or three section passes rather than six or eight with foam. I got the same correction with less than half of the section passes.
Click to expand...


And just to note... this backs up what I'm always saying about "fiber" pads.

Fiber is a gentle form of abrasive as compared to foam. The individual fibers that make of a fiber pad of any type, be it a microfiber pad or a wool cutting pad, the individual fibers have the ability and potential to make tiny "cuts" in the paint in the same way an abrasive particle can make a cut in the paint.

That's why when Meguiar's first introduced the Microfiber DA Correction System it was targeted primarily at replacing rotary buffers when doing production detailing work.

By using a microfiber pad PLUS an abrasive compound they were able to get two things cutting or abrading the paint to provide enough correction ability to wean the production detailing industry off of their caveman approach of buffing everything and thus swirling everything with a rotary buffer.

But yeah... fibers are type of abrasive and that's why for years now on the topic of microfiber pads I always say, and I pick each word in the below very carefully,

When all other factors are the same a foam pad will finish out better more consistently across the widest spectrum of paint systems.


It's the uniform surface of the foam as compared to individual fibers that gives foam the edge over fiber type pads.

I also cover this topic on page 18 and 19 of my new book

How to use the Flex XC 3401 VRG Dual Action Orbital Polisher


And in that section I recommend that if you use a microfiber pad with a Flex 3401 that you start by doing a Test Spot to see if the fibers of a microfiber pad together with the product you're using are leaving micro-marring or DA Haze in the paint.

If it is, no big deal it's just you want be aware of it before you buff out an entire car and have a second step already in mind to remove the haze.

:xyxthumbs:
 
Sicktred08fsi said:
I'm curious at to what speed you guys are running the Meg's MF pads in the Flex? I don't go any faster than 4.5 and have no issue at all with running them on my Flex. I've even used the Xtra Cut ones as well.
Click to expand...


That is the thinnest buffing pad of any type on the market that I know of?


How well a thin microfiber pad buffs with a forced rotation/forced oscillation polisher is very dependent upon the product being used. A product with a lot of lubricity will make a huge difference in the buffing experience. (I mention that on page 19 of my book)


:)
 
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