Forced Rotation VS Free Spinning...

S

Sonic Pilot

New member
Feb 3, 2017
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I certainly understand the benefit of forced rotation, Being able to power through a tough compounding/correcting session without stalling is easy to understand. When is it better to have a free spinning machine?

I ask because I have been looking at the Makita PO5000 polisher. It can run in either forced rotation, or free spinning mode. So, obviously there is demand for two distinctively different features. why?
 
IMO free spinning is pretty worthless in general with the curves and contours of newer freaking vehicles. Just did a 2012 Cruze and unless you have a every pad in 1 inch increments you will stall all over the place. The only thing free spin is good for are flat panels such as the roof. Ive barely touched my GG6 since getting the 3401.
 
Well if that is the case, why isn't every polisher manufacturer going to forced rotation? Seems like most of them are sticking to the free spinning design, at least for now. Also, why would a manufacturer like Makita go through all of the R&D and cost to develop the industry's first and only machine that can operate in both modes? There must be a good reason...right?
 
dcjredline said:
IMO free spinning is pretty worthless in general with the curves and contours of newer freaking vehicles. Just did a 2012 Cruze and unless you have a every pad in 1 inch increments you will stall all over the place. The only thing free spin is good for are flat panels such as the roof. Ive barely touched my GG6 since getting the 3401.
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Hilarious
 
Would be very interesting to see a match up between 2 detailers and a longthrow 21mm polisher and a direct driven DA polisher. They do a half of the same car. With the same pads and polishes. I will not go into battle with which is what. Since I have only polishing with a 21mm longthrow polisher and not a direct driven DA polisher. I can only say that I don't have a big problem with stalling when polishing. Sure it happens but the more time I get behind the polisher the less it's stalling for me. And calling a free spinning DA as useless is a big statement to do. It sounds like you are not being able to polish with it. Even that many only uses free spinning DA. And some of them also has a direct driven DA polisher. Why would they reach for a free spinning DA if they are so useless and they have a direct driven DA too?
 
dcjredline said:
IMO free spinning is pretty worthless in general with the curves and contours of newer freaking vehicles. Just did a 2012 Cruze and unless you have a every pad in 1 inch increments you will stall all over the place. The only thing free spin is good for are flat panels such as the roof. Ive barely touched my GG6 since getting the 3401.
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And on a similar vehicle, and similar situation, my 3401 sits in the bag. The only time I really need it is on huge flat surfaces. I just need it to comfortably spin a 6.5" pad.
 
Personal preference.

The industry had a rotary, and a Porter Cable 7424. Essentially what happened was Flex introduced the 3401 to the industry as a combination of the two. It blended the power of the rotary and the safety of the random orbital. This was back in 2007.

Since those days pads, and polishes have evolved to maximize the cutting potential of the free spinning random orbital tool.
 
IMHO if one's free spinning DA keeps stalling, then that person is using either a bad technique (holding the machine at the wrong angle, or going on the panel in the wrong direction), or he's using a pad too large, and has to go down in pad size (including possibly switching to a "mini" polisher).

That said there are things forced rotation polishers are useful for (besides avoiding stalling, that is), like for polishing glass, where you
1. simply do not have any flat surfaces (like on a windshield) which are pretty much a requirement for the free spinning DAs to work properly, where
2. you have to put a lot of pressure to achieve some decent results (because paint is very, very hard), and where
3. you just don't have to worry about burning through (because most automotive glasses are at least half an inch thick, if not more, compared to around 100-200 microns for the paint).

Polishing a windshield with a free spinning DA is just a nightmare.
 
Some say they feel the free spinning finishes better on soft paints, but I personally have zero issue with soft black finishing out well.

I grew up polishing with a rotary and thus hated a regular DA machine. I won’t use a non-forced rotation unit any longer. No need.

I’d much rather have the speed and power behind my Flex and Mille. The correction times of both far exceed that of most average units though some would argue a longer throw is faster. I’ll leave those arguments to them. Me, I can power through compounding, polishing and coating most large sedans in 6-8hrs from start to finish depending on the 1-2- or 3 layers of coatings purchased. That’s good for my needs.


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TTQ B4U said:
Some say they feel the free spinning finishes better on soft paints, but I personally have zero issue with soft black finishing out well.

I grew up polishing with a rotary and thus hated a regular DA machine. I won’t use a non-forced rotation unit any longer. No need.

I’d much rather have the speed and power behind my Flex and Mille. The correction times of both far exceed that of most average units though some would argue a longer throw is faster. I’ll leave those arguments to them. Me, I can power through compounding, polishing and coating most large sedans in 6-8hrs from start to finish depending on the 1-2- or 3 layers of coatings purchased. That’s good for my needs.


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I've seen some videos of experienced detailers use the tool and the pulling/smoothness didn't look much better than the 3401. Just an observation, nothing more, nothing less. Do you use the Rupes Mille polishes and pads with the Mille? I have the 3401 and hate it.
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
I've seen some videos of experienced detailers use the tool and the pulling/smoothness didn't look much better than the 3401. Just an observation, nothing more, nothing less. Do you use the Rupes Mille polishes and pads with the Mille? I have the 3401 and hate it.
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Mark, may I ask why you hate the 3401? I love using that machine and it’s one I grab most often. I know people complain about it pushing/pulling. While that is true when edging the machine, I still feel it is smooth running as long as you are holding the machine properly. My only gripe with the 3401 is how hot the housing gets.
To the OP, the free spinning mode on the Makita is worthless imo. I’m sorry I bought the Makita. It just collects dust on my polisher rack. The gear driven mode is nice but I still prefer to grab my 3401. That is just my preference tho.
 
My RBL is really hard to stall in speeds 4-6 unless you really lean into it but I honestly don't know if it's forced or free spinning,it has a 21 mm throw as well .

I was thinking of buying another machine and was looking into a Makita P5000 but maybe not after reading this thread,,maybe I should just save my pennies and get the LC UDOS.

how is the 3401 for buffing wet sand?,,I do alot of that and I am starting to get carpal tunnel symptoms pretty bad and am looking for something easier on my arms ,,or am I barking up the wrong tree?
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
I've seen some videos of experienced detailers use the tool and the pulling/smoothness didn't look much better than the 3401. Just an observation, nothing more, nothing less. Do you use the Rupes Mille polishes and pads with the Mille? I have the 3401 and hate it.
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I do use the Mille Pads. I also use the regular green and UHS Pads, the latter with the UHS Polish. In terms of polishes, the UHS is the only Rupes I use and love. Finishes out excellent and seems really make a one-step out of some pretty bad stuff. I really only use my 3401 for compounding with wool now that I have the Mille.
 
One of the biggest differences between my gear driven Makita PO5000C and BOSS15 is smoothness and ease of use. No matter what gear driven machine you have or use, there is some element of 'pull' or 'walk' to it. It's the nature of the beast, whereas the BOSS as a free-spinning machine is almost effortless to use. As mentioned in previous posts, I will generally use the 5000C in gear driven mode for major correction and use the BOSS for moderate correction and polishing. This is not to suggest the BOSS can't be used for serious defects, it can. I do it more to spread the working time on both machines.

Looking forward to the UDOS. Maybe the motor will be powerful enough so we have a free-spinner that doesn't stall, or perhaps isn't as prone to stalling with less than perfect technique.

ScottH
 
ScottH said:
One of the biggest differences between my gear driven Makita PO5000C and BOSS15 is smoothness and ease of use. No matter what gear driven machine you have or use, there is some element of 'pull' or 'walk' to it. It's the nature of the beast, whereas the BOSS as a free-spinning machine is almost effortless to use. As mentioned in previous posts, I will generally use the 5000C in gear driven mode for major correction and use the BOSS for moderate correction and polishing. This is not to suggest the BOSS can't be used for serious defects, it can. I do it more to spread the working time on both machines.

Looking forward to the UDOS. Maybe the motor will be powerful enough so we have a free-spinner that doesn't stall, or perhaps isn't as prone to stalling with less than perfect technique.

ScottH
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Good perception on buffers, Scott.
 
ScottH said:
One of the biggest differences between my gear driven Makita PO5000C and BOSS15 is smoothness and ease of use. No matter what gear driven machine you have or use, there is some element of 'pull' or 'walk' to it. It's the nature of the beast, whereas the BOSS as a free-spinning machine is almost effortless to use. As mentioned in previous posts, I will generally use the 5000C in gear driven mode for major correction and use the BOSS for moderate correction and polishing. This is not to suggest the BOSS can't be used for serious defects, it can. I do it more to spread the working time on both machines.

Looking forward to the UDOS. Maybe the motor will be powerful enough so we have a free-spinner that doesn't stall, or perhaps isn't as prone to stalling with less than perfect technique.

ScottH
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Hello Scott, thanks for your insight.
So, I understand that you prefer to switch between the Makita and the BOSS G15 simply to split the time on the machines. With regard to the Makita, how well does it perform in free spinning mode? Comparable to the G15?
 
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