Freshly Painted with Orange Peel

[Sellncars]

I am restoring a 1984 Mustang GT. I have painted it with a product that NAPA sold me….unfortunately, I didn’t do much homework on paint products……and took their advice. Anyways, it’s my first time painting a car in it’s entirety but it’s a winter project and Im in no hurry, other than I wanted to get it painted before snow flies.

First I did the body work and completely sanded down the car and removed all oils/waxes. I sanded the primer down with 600 grit sandpaper and it was very smooth. I wiped the entire car down with tack cloths before I sprayed color. The color, I painted it with Martin-Senour’s Brilliant Black Pearl and the LeMans stripes are their Galaxy Silver. I shot the first coat and it looked pretty good (so I thought how hard can this be….that was pretty easy), although I didn’t have complete coverage and had some runs……..so I sanded the runs down and shot it again with a little more air and more spread on the paint trying to avoid runs, and got a high degree of orange peel. The third coat actually looks better as I went for more paint and less air, and moved the gun faster to avoid runs which the fender picture you see is representative of where it stands now today with the third coat of black on it. It was the picture I had that you could best see the orange peel effect.


I have the time, and the patience, so what would you recommend I do to remove this orange peel? I do not own a rotary buffer but am willing to buy one to do it right, or do you recommend I just do it by hand by wet sanding? If you think it’s bad enough where I need a buffer, can you recommend a brand and where to get one? Thanks for any information you can provide to me. I have learned a lot from the forums and it has prompted me to stop and ask these questions before I do anything more.

That picture doesn't look like orange peel, it looks like there was some bad kind of chemical reaction to something.

 

[Buckskincolt]

How much thinner did you put in the paint? Looks like un-thinned spray to me. It need to flow ant that stuff has no flow to it at all. either it's drying way to fast or you have not got the mix anywhere near right. I have done some single stage painting and did OK. I'm no painter but like I said no flow is your problem.

Any automotive paint stores in your area? Not NAPA but a real paint store.

Here is a work truck I painted a little while ago.

 

[RobR93]

Wow, you guys were busy last night. Thanks for all the replies. To answer some questions, I mixed it 4:1 with a slow hardener, exactly as the directions say. It doesn't say anything about adding a thinner......is that something that I should have done?

I guess the bonus is that NONE of you guys are as good as getting orange peel as I am.......you should come over and I'll give you some lessons.

The primer I applied I had shot several coats and sanded it all down very smooth, so I know the base is smooth and it was all hand wiped with tack cloths. I don't know that this is any kind of chemical reaction, just poor technique.

I started to sand last night with 1200 on a fender. Here are a couple of pics. Now the sanding is taking the paint down.....when I get a uniform color, does the buffer bring back the black shine (where it looks brown and dull now)?

I should mention, there is NO CLEARCOAT at all on the car. this is just the Basecoat.


Also, don't forget Im in no hurry to get this car on the road.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I should mention, there is NO CLEARCOAT at all on the car. this is just the Basecoat.

Are you going to clear it?

when I get a uniform color, does the buffer bring back the black shine (where it looks brown and dull now)?

Are you shooting a basecoat/clearcoat system? If so then you need to clear the basecoat as most basecoat paints aren't designed to provide gloss as they get that from the clear layer.



If this is a single stage paint then, 'yes' after you're done sanding the paint flat the buffing process will restore gloss and clarity.

 

[RobR93]

Are you going to clear it?



Are you shooting a basecoat/clearcoat system? If so then you need to clear the basecoat as most basecoat paints aren't designed to provide gloss as they get that from the clear layer.

Mike, this is a basecoat/clearcoat system. I want to get the basecoat right before I apply clear????? I have a gallon of clearcoat and the same slow hardener and it indicates it is also to be mixed 4:1. What you are looking at on the car now is ONLY 3 coats of basecoat. I am using a Brilliant Black Pearl that is sold by NAPA and called "Finish 1". Here is a link though to the manufacturer.

http://www.martinsenour-autopaint.c...s/Product-Information/Finish1/color-card.ashx

I guess my question really was, will the black color come back from buffing after I sand it down.....I know the gloss comes from application of clearcoat (properly of course).

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I guess my question really was, will the black color come back from buffing after I sand it down.....I know the gloss comes from application of clearcoat (properly of course).

The black color will come back after you spray the clear layer on.

You don't want to buff the basecoat, sand and prep for new paint, then after all the clear is sprayed you sand the clear flat and then buff the clear.

Buffing out the basecoat would create surface adhesion problems for the first clear layer.

 

[RobR93]

So, what I want to do is sand down the orange peel in the basecoat until it's smooth (starting with a 1200 grit and finishing with 2000). Wipe it down good with tack cloths then put the first coat of clear on?

 

[RobR93]

Sorry folks.....I was gone last weekend and at SVRA event in Watkins Glen this past weekend. Here is the update though.......

I sanded down what looked to be the orange peel in previous pictures and reshot the whole car with basecoat. This time I went a little heavier with the paint so it wasn't as aerosolized and now I have runs. I have taken a close up picture. Also, I was wet sanding on the hood.......so now I have 2 more questions, based on the pictures you see.

1. In the close-up, I want to keep sanding until the paint is completely the dull black color (not the bright shiny black) which means I have the paint smooth (but obviously not sand so far that I get into the primer....which shouldn't happen since there are 4 coats of paint on the car, and this last one was relatively heavy. would that be correct?

2. If you look at the hood, the wet sanding left watermarks and just doesn't look good......do I need to do anything to it before the clearcoat would go on?

I have a new respect for auto painters/detailers now, by the way.......lol. This is fun, but time consuming and at times aggravating!!!!!!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi Rob,

I'm not a trained painter, I've painted a few cars but always with the oversight of buddies that are pro painters so with that in mind I do my best to answer your questions but you might want to seek out some forums specific to spraying the paint.

When it comes time to sand and buff the final top coat for a show car finish then I always recommend get as much advice as you can from all forums and then go with the advice you think sounds right. I say this because not all the advice I've seen given on sanding and buffing the top coat on "painter's forums" is what I would consider good. Just because a person can spray paint doesn't mean they're also and expert and the sanding and buffing process.

So get a few opinion, that's all I'm saying...

1. In the close-up, I want to keep sanding until the paint is completely the dull black color (not the bright shiny black) which means I have the paint smooth (but obviously not sand so far that I get into the primer....which shouldn't happen since there are 4 coats of paint on the car, and this last one was relatively heavy. would that be correct?

Yes. Sand the basecoat till it's flat and then you'll have to prep it for the next layer of paint. Check with your paint mixer at the PBE store where you're getting your supplies, he should be able to recommend a procedure as well as the chemicals you'll need to prepare the surface for good adhesion for the next layer of paint.

2. If you look at the hood, the wet sanding left watermarks and just doesn't look good......do I need to do anything to it before the clearcoat would go on?

You should be sanding in straight lines in your hand sanding, not all different directions, don't know if that's how you're doing it or not, hard to tell from the pictures.

Make sure your water supply is clean and after wiping the surface down with whatever your paint mixer recommends for a prep chemical, afterwards, the sanded basecoat should have a uniform dull look to it.

What grit are you leaving off at?


I think you would really like our Advanced Wet-sanding and Rotary buffer class this weekend,

October 4th - Sunday Advanced Class - Detailing 102


It will cover hand-sanding, machine sanding and proper technique for removing your sanding marks with a rotary buffer.

 

[RobR93]

Thanks for the input Mike. I sanded the hood with 1500 grit. I cut the runs in the paint down on the car with 800 (the last layer went on pretty thick) and now Im going to move to 1200 and finish with 1500 before going to clearcoat. I will probably try and put 6-7 clear layers on. I will keep supplying some pictures so you have good material to show people how you can screw it up!!! (Actually, hopefully not!!!). I still will need to get a buffer........Im hand sanding the paint on the whole car out now so a buffer will be required in the near future.....I will go back and review your other posts to start that process of what I will need.

 

[RobR93]

Im a little confused. Im looking at the buffers/polishers/sanders. You said get a rotary buffer, but the link in your post takes me to a polisher. My plan is to sand the paint (basecoat) out by hand with a block. After I shoot the clearcoat, would a 7 inch polisher be sufficient?

Im looking at going to our local Harbor Freight for this:

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

and this:

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Stick with the first link, that's a traditional rotary buffer, also called a sander/polisher, or even a grinder although most grinders offer much higher RPM's.

You're going to want to get a wool cutting pad and some aggressive compound for your initial cut, then switch to a foam pad with a lighter polish to bring the surface to a high gloss.

If you want it 100% absolutely swirl-free then you want to re-polish using a DA Polisher.


Keep your receipt for the Harbor Freight polisher in case it gives-up on you.


This is actually a pretty good system for most fresh paint sand and buff jobs...

M95 Speed Cut Compound with W-5000 Double Sided 100% Wool Cutting Pad

You can use any wool pad, if you get a hook and loop Velcro wool pad you'll need a Velcro backing plate to go with it. With the dual-sided wool pad you'll need the adapter to attach it to you spindle.

Double-Sided Pad Rotary Adapter


Follow that with,

M205 and a foam polishing pad.

 

[RobR93]

I keep my receipt on EVERY thing I buy at HF. I'll be contacting you for the other stuff as my buffing time draws near. I havent finished sanding the paint to where it needs to be yet. That'll be a couple more weeks at least (off and on). Thanks for all your help Mike, and I hope others got something out of this too.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I keep my receipt on EVERY thing I buy at HF. I'll be contacting you for the other stuff as my buffing time draws near. I havent finished sanding the paint to where it needs to be yet. That'll be a couple more weeks at least (off and on). Thanks for all your help Mike, and I hope others got something out of this too.

Looking forward to the results!

:dblthumb2:

 

[O.C.Detailing]

Someone said it earlier, you need to use a reducer. Mix it 4:1:1. 4 parts paint to 1 part hardener to 1 part reducer to get the paint to "flow" as you spray it. I'm actually working part-time in a body shop now learning how to paint my own car as well.

The consistency of the paint in the mixing cup should be like milk, maybe a bit thinner. From what I've been reading, you're not reducing the mix at all and just using paint and a hardener. I'd read up a bit more on which reducers you need, but you DEFINITELY need to add some to the mix to get the right surface for laying clear. I believe what's happening is the paint is drying so fast as you're shooting it out of the gun that it's sticking to the surface as semi-hard droplets that are stacking up to the extreme orange peel in your pictures. Adding the reducer will thin the paint and make it take a bit longer to dry, therefore keeping it wet as it's coming out of the gun and laying on the surface. I've also learned that using high air pressure with the proper 4:1:1 mix ratio will allow you to ionize the paint into smaller particles and cover much more smoothly. You shouldn't need to sand the base coat at ALL. I've yet to see the gentleman teaching me even TOUCH base before spraying clear on it and almost every panel he sprays comes out with extremely low - NO orange peel on them. I sprayed the bed of a pick up I'm working on the other day, base-coat only, and found that it wasn't too difficult, though the gun was already dialed in and the paint was mixed by the guy teaching me. He did explain everything to me as he went though.

Good learning experience for you though. Keep us updated on your progress and I'll start my own thread when I start working on my own car.

 

[RobR93]

so I think the problem was the gun setup, not anything with the mix, or temperature. I called a guy who set my gun up over the phone for me and I shot the clear last week.......no runs, no problems. The clear with the gun set correctly, came out vastly different than the paint did.

So here are some pictures after shooting clear.........

View attachment 5018

View attachment 5019

View attachment 5020

I have ordered my pads and cutting/polishing compounds from Autogeek and they should be here at the end of the week (thanks Duane/Dwayne, however you spell it).