BobbyG
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- Dec 29, 2009
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Gas prices are climbing
- Thread starter ExoticAutoDetai
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ryanbabz71
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- May 21, 2010
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There was a news story the other day that countrymark (oil company in the US) had found oil in southern indiana. It will produce 400 barrels a day. The previous high for oil in Indiana was 4 barrels a day. Its out there it just needs to be found
Here is the story
CountryMark hits oil near Terre Haute
Excellent points. The problem is actually multifold. 1) The US has not increased refinery capacity significantly in 30 years. 2) It is well known that the US imports about 70% of oil (much of it from Canada thankfully as they are really the only oil exporting country that doesn't hate us) 3)Commuters burn through 30 million barrels a day just being stuck in traffic jams (roughly 10% of total daily usage) 4) the US has a petroleum based infrastructure. It will take years and a concerted effort to fully embrace and support any feasable alternative energy source. 5) Several countries (China/Russia) are already electing to use other currency as the world standard due to the US dollar's loss in value.
As an aside, my Geology professor told my class (over 20 years ago) that oil will not be depleted in our lifetime. However, the acceptable cost of oil will increase to a point where it will be prohibitively expensive.
I also think the problem with the US is that we excel in short term, thinking/solutions but have a difficult time with long term planning/solutions. I begrudgingly commend China in their countries planning. (they do 5 year planning cycles. The past cycle was to work on their infrastructure)
Setec Astronomy
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- Aug 31, 2010
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Without going into a long rant, you allude to the real problem...we've known this could happen any time since the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973...yet we have failed to develop/maintain a consistent energy policy which could have reduced our dependence on oil (foreign or otherwise). Other countries have. Even the recent proposal by T. Boone Pickens to replace natural gas-powered electric plants with wind farms to free up the natural gas to replace oil for vehicles, seems to have drifted off on the wind he was trying to harness.
These are my thoughtsI'll try and not start any arguments.)
-there is plenty of oil in the U.S., and around the coast that we should be independent (but do to countless gov. regulations we cannot touch it; instead we let other countries, many of which don't exactly like the U.S. very well, sell us overpriced crap oil.)
-We need to drill of the coast much more. One reason we don't is because every so often we have an oil spill and think they are inevitable (and in some cases, such as natural disaster, they are inevitable). The BP oil spill was the result of human error on both the builders of the rig, and the gov. These disasters can be prevented in the future.
-There is no such thing, and will be no such thing, at least not in my lifetime (I'm only 20) as peak oil. I don't buy into it. We didn't run out of oil in the 70's, we did not run out of oil a few years ago, and this year we will not run out of oil.
-If record amounts of output have been achieved in the recent past, why are oil prices rising with production (as they have in the past)? Conspiracy?
- I finally have to write, that I do not necessarily believe that oil is a fossil fuel. Sorry. Many reports that I have read or heard now support the idea that perhaps oil is renewable, and does not consist of prehistoric animal remains, but rather natural geological compounds that the earth creates in natural processes.
:rant:
We are hampered by the regulations imposed on us. I do not agree on allowing any industry to run wild unchecked, but the US has hampered the refinery/exploration process to the point the importing has been the easier solution. Another poster stated that the price increases are directly related to the "fear factor" of most commodity brokers. That posted is entirely correct and highlights just how fragile gas prices are to this fluctuation.
There are currently over 3000 off shore wells in the Gulf of Mexico. What many companies do when they discover a new source is to drill, then cap the well. Oil companies do this for many reasons. Mainly to keep production levels in check and also to guarantee that there is a future source. Essentially, so they do not dump too much oil into the marketplace at one time.
South Africa has been using.manufacturing synthetic oil/gas for many years. Brazil is completely self sufficient using their own ethanol based oil. Our problem has been our inability to become more self sufficient.
@Setec Astronomy: Exactly. Our inability to plan for the long term is our big downfall. We have not improved our highway system since the 1950's. We have no infrastructure in place to segway into another alternative energy source. We have regulated ourselves out of being self sufficient. In regards to T. Boone Pickens's plan, he has a practical solution but it falls on deaf ears.
ShaunD
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- Nov 19, 2010
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Funny how the gov is pushes Auto co.'s to get the mpg up to what they were in the 70's. If we never let them go below those mpg's we wouldn't be as dependent on foreign oil. And, if we would have stayed with keeping electric vehicles our city/commuter source for transportation we all would be better off and the pollution in major cities wouldn't exist. A good looking, detailed ride doesn't have to run on gas.
Setec Astronomy
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- Aug 31, 2010
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Well, I'm not sure I agree about your history of the regulations (my memory says that CAFE went from 1975 to 1985...and then didn't go any higher for 20 years as oil prices moderated), but I can tell you I had a mid-70's car with a V8 and a 3-spd trans and RWD that was a dog and got 12 MPG (15 hwy!). Then I had a '90 car that was smaller and lighter and had a V6 and a 4-spd trans and FWD, that was better in every way, had equal or better interior room, was quicker, and got 17/25MPG. Now I have a mid 00's car with a smaller V6 with a lot more HP, 5-spd trans, AWD, that's about the same size but much heavier...and I get 16/25MPG. It's really fast, but I'm an old guy now and I almost never put my foot all the way in it.
Anyway, in the first 15 years of my story, we made a lot of progress in efficiency, not so much in the second 15 years, and yes, we certainly have a lot of new vehicles driving around that get pretty much the same mileage as my mid-70's lead sled. There's a lot of problems compounded together here that contribute to little improvment in "energy independence"....more people, more avg. miles driven, no new nuke plants since 1981. As earlier noted, the Chinese have jumped onto the energy bandwagon because they are choking themselves on coal soot the way we were years ago.
ShaunD
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- Nov 19, 2010
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It is all about what the masses demand and choose. We, the public, are the reason better sources of fuel have not been put into use and why electric vehicles had 30 years of zero development. Few people know that if it wasn't for the electric automobile then it would have taken many more years before the combustion auto would have gone mainstream. We just need to be a responsible world and stop using a 500hp automobile to go 6 miles round trip to the grocery store at 60 miles an hour. Ride a bike and stop an out of shape, obese country from sucking up oil from our "enemies".
:rant:
jwellsii
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- Sep 12, 2009
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ROTFLMAO :laughing::laughing::laughing:
Setec Astronomy
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- Aug 31, 2010
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While I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, I once again have to disagree with your facts. The GM EV-1 was 20 years ago, but the things that hold back electric vehicles today are the same things that did 20 years ago: batteries.
20 years ago there were no lithium or Ni-MH batteries in common use, it was all Ni-Cad and lead-acid. Even today, the batteries are just barely making electric cars feasible (not that there aren't also infrastructure issues regarding charging stations, etc.). So it's not that there was 30 years of zero development, it just wasn't development that got anywhere, particularly in the 90's when oil was the cheapest it had ever been. Even today, how exactly do electric cars help when 70% of the electricity comes from oil, coal, and natural gas power plants? Everybody got scared and NIMBY'd after Three Mile Island, so instead of working on making better/safer nuke plants like some other countries did, we just gave up on them.
Perfections
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- Aug 17, 2010
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My mother in law cleans everything with multi surface pledge, I mean everything! It's like my fat Greek wedding and the dude with windex
she thinks pledge is the answer to all the worlds dirtyness.
pfix
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- Jul 29, 2010
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Instability in the oil market is a great cause for concern for all of us. Beyond the higher gas and diesel prices that are coming, we are sure to see price increases on anything that contains plastic along with increased freight costs through fuel surcharges that result in higher retail prices. We will see higher airfare and so on and so on.
We all need to hope that the unrest in the middle east passes quickly and OPEC relaxes their death grip on the worlds oil prices.
With many states in financial trouble, coupled with unemployment rates above 9%, things in this country may get much worse and that scares the hell the hell out of me.
We all need to hope that the unrest in the middle east passes quickly and OPEC relaxes their death grip on the worlds oil prices.
With many states in financial trouble, coupled with unemployment rates above 9%, things in this country may get much worse and that scares the hell the hell out of me.
reality33
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- Sep 15, 2008
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I just paid 3.65 for premium yesterday. I felt a bit depressed, that was until I remember what I used to pay back home in Sweden. Every year I go back, its a reminder of how cheap petrol is here in the states. If memory serves me right, this past summer, petrol was 12 kr per L, which equates to $7.06 per gal. for regular (95 Octane RON which is equal to about 91 Octane in the US (R+M)/2) method)
It costs me about $100 to fill my Volvo V40 with a tank of petrol. Compare that to filling my S2000 at $37? I do not feel so bad anymore
It costs me about $100 to fill my Volvo V40 with a tank of petrol. Compare that to filling my S2000 at $37? I do not feel so bad anymore
:applause::applause:It is all about what the masses demand and choose. We, the public, are the reason better sources of fuel have not been put into use and why electric vehicles had 30 years of zero development. . . We just need to be a responsible world and stop using a 500hp automobile to go 6 miles round trip to the grocery store at 60 miles an hour. Ride a bike and stop an out of shape, obese country from sucking up oil from our "enemies".
Those are my sentiments exactly. My wife and I have become a 1-car family by opportunity. Our schedules coincide so well there is no reason to drive 2 cars. Also, when the weather warms up we will be a "no-car" family. Perhaps just on the weekend to get groceries.
I can answer that question fairly well. Petroleum products hold a large amount of chemical energy, which is released when burned. However, the most efficient gasoline engines today are little more than 35% efficient at harnessing all that energy. Also, remember all the energy it took to get that gasoline to you. Drilled, pumped, shipped, refined (what powers the refinery??), and shipped to the station.
On the other hand, an electric motor/battery combination is usually more than 95% efficient. So with all the energy you use charging it, it turns almost all of it into forward motion. Also consider the electricity itself doesn't have to be shipped or pumped.
I do agree that until we have nationwide electric trans-continental trains and electric cars powered by renewable natural resources, we will still be in the same quandary.
Setec Astronomy
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- Aug 31, 2010
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It certainly is more efficient to have a central powerplant burning non-renewable fuels than to have millions of little powerplants driving around...but you're not taking into account that there are plenty of "pumping" losses in the electrical distribution network...after all, electric transmission lines are not room-temperature superconductors and there are all kinds of load/demand mismatches, etc. I would take issue with your 95% efficiency model just in the vehicle alone, but when you take the whole grid into account, it certainly doesn't approach that amount. You also overlook the energy conversion efficiency to make the electricity...you'll be down at some dismal level in that process...hence my earlier comments about nuclear, etc.
ryanbabz71
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- May 21, 2010
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$2.95 for E-85 here
I was considering the gasoline engine and battery/motor themselves as a system. Not the entire vehicle. Today's modern DC motors are up to 96% efficient. Degrade whatever you want (within reason) for battery/control/cabling losses. From a thermodynamic perspective it's still a better system.
Most large plants could be more efficient than a single gasoline engine due to lack of space/size limitations. This would allow for things like steam turbines running off the hot exhaust of a turbine generator. I agree that the largest percentage of current methods are not the best, however.
Not trying to start an argument, just my point of view. I realize this is a hot topic.
Most large plants could be more efficient than a single gasoline engine due to lack of space/size limitations. This would allow for things like steam turbines running off the hot exhaust of a turbine generator. I agree that the largest percentage of current methods are not the best, however.
Not trying to start an argument, just my point of view. I realize this is a hot topic.
It is all about what the masses demand and choose. We, the public, are the reason better sources of fuel have not been put into use and why electric vehicles had 30 years of zero development. Few people know that if it wasn't for the electric automobile then it would have taken many more years before the combustion auto would have gone mainstream. We just need to be a responsible world and stop using a 500hp automobile to go 6 miles round trip to the grocery store at 60 miles an hour. Ride a bike and stop an out of shape, obese country from sucking up oil from our "enemies".
just curious how I can ride my bike the actual 3 miles each way, and carry all the groceries back to my home... and then do it with 18" of freshly fallen snow?
I'll drive one of my 4 cars to the store, conveniently stow my groceries in the trunk and drive back through the snow to my comfy home.
I blame the high prices on our government.
I feel the real answer to our problem, over the next 10-20 yrs is ethanol.... NOT from corn.