Gel Coat Oxidization Removal - How much to charge?

[Bates Detailing]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

Looks good - you say it went back to hazy? the entire boat - even after waxing/sealing?

 

[Bamafire]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

The rails hazed a little but the stern hazed backed, not as bad as the 50-50.

 

[Hoytman]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

Stratos, Hydro-sport, and Skeeter are notorious (certain years at least, of which I don't have a year for ya) for what you see in those photo's. From what I've heard from local fisherman there were some major issues with gel being thin and manufacturers not standing by their products. I've also heard some of these issues continue today.

I'd be super-duper careful because that clear gel is beyond whisper thin on these makes. Some makes, it gets dry, hazy, and porous...even to the point of pitting...like air bubbles in the gel.

I did a Boston Whaler last year for a guy and he wanted me to do another boat that he'd bought. It was a Hydro-sport, mid 90's. The outside hull looked fine, but when he pulled the cover off he asked me if I could do anything with the upper portion and inside of the boat. To put in mildly it looked like a peeling snake and I declined the job. The clear gel just flaked away. It was gel too, not some clear paint.

A friend of mine owns a Skeeter and the top rails look much like your photo's. I bet those hazed area do not feel smooth like they should...better than a baby's bottom. That's another job I declined and I even showed my buddy what a test spot revealed. Mediocre results at best...that hazed back over shortly after. Some spots in the area of the test seen zero transformation...just haziness. This tells me it's all the way through the clear.

Good clear gel-coat, by todays standards at least, will have great depth of image...it will look very thick in contrast to a thin gel-coat with no issues.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/44177-ranger-bass-boat-minor-scratch-removal.html

 

[Hoytman]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

What about below the rub rails? How does it look below that rub rail? Oddly enough the Hydro-Sport I was asked to do, below the rub rail looked fine. That is, it had plenty of shine, however, it in no way had much depth to it and that's because it too was thin to start with. Once again, and oddly enough, my buddies Skeeter has the same "sanded" look to it above the rub rail. The hull is fine. What's strange, is it has a cover on it all the time and it still looks like it's been bead blasted.

 

[Bamafire]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

What about below the rub rails? How does it look below that rub rail? Oddly enough the Hydro-Sport I was asked to do, below the rub rail looked fine. That is, it had plenty of shine, however, it in no way had much depth to it and that's because it too was thin to start with. Once again, and oddly enough, my buddies Skeeter has the same "sanded" look to it above the rub rail. The hull is fine. What's strange, is it has a cover on it all the time and it still looks like it's been bead blasted.

Below the rub rail looked great used a AIO came out looking new. the rest of the boat came out great no returning haze just the rails and stern... thanks for the info makes me feel better.

 

[Bamafire]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

[/IMG]


This shot is after polish the used a sealent over the entire boat. 90% corrected fine with no issues.... customer was very pleased with the out come..

 

[Hoytman]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

It would be interesting to see how it looks down the road. The all-in-one appears to have done the job, but only time will tell. Just keep an eye out for other boats with similar problems that I described. You might want to steer clear of some of those.

Certainly looks better than before, that's for sure.

 

[primo spaghetti]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

I'd be super-duper careful because that clear gel is beyond whisper thin on these makes. Some makes, it gets dry, hazy, and porous...even to the point of pitting...like air bubbles in the gel.

All Gel has pinholes in it....it is called porosity. just the nature of the beast.

 

[primo spaghetti]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

[/IMG]


This shot is after polish the used a sealent over the entire boat. 90% corrected fine with no issues.... customer was very pleased with the out come..

i see your 3401 in the picture here. not sure if that is for your finishing or not, but if you dont have one already, invest in a rotary and some wool pads. speed up the work, increase the profit, and it will do a better job cutting.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

No paint transfered to my pad

If you're buffing on that color of red and you're not seeing any paint transfer then you're working on clear coated gel-coat or simply a clear coat paint system.

Technically, there is paint transferring to your pad but because it's clear you cannot see it.

That goes for any type of pad, abrasive product and tool when working on any clearcoated "anything". If you're abrading the surface you're getting a build-up of two things on the face of your buffing pads...

Spent product
Removed paint or removed "material" i.e. whatever the material might be


Love the large flake on boats like these...


We're going to have a 1961 Dune Buggy here in the near future that my buddy Jay just bought and he's having the sides painted with jumbo size gold metalflake paint job.


We'll probably do a wetsand, cut and buff on the fresh paint. It will be a Thursday night live broadcast.

 

[Bamafire]

i see your 3401 in the picture here. not sure if that is for your finishing or not, but if you dont have one already, invest in a rotary and some wool pads. speed up the work, increase the profit, and it will do a better job cutting.

The bumble bee is on its way,

 

[Bamafire]

If you're buffing on that color of red and you're not seeing any paint transfer then you're working on clear coated gel-coat or simply a clear coat paint system.

Technically, there is paint transferring to your pad but because it's clear you cannot see it.

That goes for any type of pad, abrasive product and tool when working on any clearcoated "anything". If you're abrading the surface you're getting a build-up of two things on the face of your buffing pads...

Spent product
Removed paint or removed "material" i.e. whatever the material might be


Love the large flake on boats like these...


We're going to have a 1961 Dune Buggy here in the near future that my buddy Jay just bought and he's having the sides painted with jumbo size gold metalflake paint job.


We'll probably do a wetsand, cut and buff on the fresh paint. It will be a Thursday night live broadcast.

Now that would be cool to work on.

 

[Hoytman]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

All Gel has pinholes in it....it is called porosity. just the nature of the beast.

That is correct, but the point was to be careful and not try to remove all those pinholes or haziness all at once without stopping and checking your work just in case he might be dealing with similar problems that I've ran into. Good gel, to the naked eye, shouldn't appear porous, dry, flakey, or anything but deep and glossy, or perhaps oxidized to a degree.

If that haze in those pictures is anything like the haze I've ran into, it is absolutely not like oxidized gel-coat, but another type of problem of which I cannot say. You could not wipe your hand across the few problem boats I've ran into and see oxidation on your hand. The surface was simply hazy, pitted, or peeling.

My guess is, the all-in-one is only a temporary fix to a major gel-coat issue on a boat that's not all that old...and shouldn't yet be having any issues provided it's been kept in that garage. Only time will tell. I certainly hope it is fixed, if for nothing else, for the detailer's sake.

 

[Always Learning]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

Update on the 'basic polish'... I explained to the owner that what I used was an aggressive compound followed with a quality wax and gave him a price for that - an excellent price at that.

I gave the option of a one step and my opinion on it as well - at the previously agreed price.

He backed out totally - thankfully he didn't ask me to do the one step!

Doug

 

[primo spaghetti]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

in all honesty, its probably for the better...

 

[Always Learning]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

Absolutely for the better.

I quoted low for the entire job as a polish and stripe removal and after taking into account products and pads etc I wouldn't have made what I deserve for Labour.

Thanks to all - many lessons learned!

 

[Always Learning]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

Just wanted to update that this is back on and I really found the stripes removal to be a pig of a job.


I'm still working to get the leftover adhesive off, although I've finally got the hang of using the rubber wheel on the drill to remove the majority of it - I'm probably half done with that.


The boat is absolutely filthy because of the factory it is stored in so I think my approach will be to pick a section to do each day and complete it before moving on.


I know the hull will be a challenge, but up near the top of the ladder and reaching has been no fun either.


I'll post some pictures when closer to finished but not expecting significant progress till the end of next week.

Thanks for your tips

 

[Always Learning]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

Still lots to do on this boat but wanted to post a couple pictures and get some opinions.

The faded blue is where the striping was. There is new striping going on there so it's not an issue.

In another spot there are the similar lines where stripes were removed, what will it take to remove / blend them in?

:feedback:

 

[Always Learning]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

I'm about 50% done this boat. It's been an eye opener, lots of hard work and lessons learned.

I started off using my Flex 3401 but thankfully eventually I took everyone's advise and picked up a rotary (I bought a used Makita 9227, some wool pads and a spur). I now really appreciate the ease of use and apparent weight difference between the two machines on vertical panels.

The boat was absolutely filthy and the owner also wanted the stripes and adhesive removed as he will be replacing them at some point in the future. I used a rubber wheel on the drill to remove adhesive and removed any remainder with solvent.

I severely underestimated the time required to remove the stripes and adhesive - lesson learned.

I've been compounding (3M extra cut) each spot 2 - 3 times in order to get the ozidization out to my satisifaction - does this mean I should have started out with something more agressive like Super Duty? I've been following up with 3M Finesse it (don't remember the exact product) for 2 passes.

There's nothing more frustrating than thinking you're done compounding, going to a polishing step, inspecting and realizing that there are 'patches' where the ozidization wasn't sufficiently removed!!!

Inspect, Inspect, Inspect!


The 50 / 50 pictures turned out to not be my final product, I did go over them again.

All comments both good and bad on my work, lighting, photography or anything else would be greatly appreciated.



This side is done:

Some 50 / 50 shots:

I like the lighting on this, I actually planned it:

 

[primo spaghetti]

Re: Gel Coat Oxidization Removal Advice Needed?

looks good!

boats are a real PITA...hopefully this guy realizes how much work youve put into it!