Glaze before sealant/wax-definitive answer

I say to seal first. The sealant will not cover the swirls. Then you can glaze and hide the swirls. Finally top with a wax to lock in the glaze. A sealant bonds while a wax sits on top. If the sealant bonds to the glaze instead of the paint, you are only relying on the glaze's durability then. Sealants should be applied to bare paint. It's not bare if a glaze is on it.
 
I say to seal first. The sealant will not cover the swirls. Then you can glaze and hide the swirls. Finally top with a wax to lock in the glaze. A sealant bonds while a wax sits on top. If the sealant bonds to the glaze instead of the paint, you are only relying on the glaze's durability then. Sealants should be applied to bare paint. It's not bare if a glaze is on it.

I am more confused after reading the above.

What are you basing this opinion on? I only have experience with EZ Glaze topped with WGDGSP, so I am interested to continue learning.

A sealant will definitely "cover" swirls, because it will be on top of them. Some sealants even disguise some defects, although I would not consider this their main purpose.

Why would a wax "lock in" the glaze, but a sealant would not?

I hypothesize that a glaze would be protected by the sealant that it is topping it, because the glaze is not exposed to the elements...the sealant acts as a sacrificial layer?
 
I am more confused after reading the above.

What are you basing this opinion on? I only have experience with EZ Glaze topped with WGDGSP, so I am interested to continue learning.

A sealant will definitely "cover" swirls, because it will be on top of them. Some sealants even disguise some defects, although I would not consider this their main purpose.

Why would a wax "lock in" the glaze, but a sealant would not?

I hypothesize that a glaze would be protected by the sealant that it is topping it, because the glaze is not exposed to the elements...the sealant acts as a sacrificial layer?

I guess some sealants have filling properties, but I believe that most do not fill like a glaze would.

A sealant bonds and a wax sits on top. If you wax a dirty car (not actual dirt, but stuff that can only be removed by clay dirt), the durability won't change much because the wax is just sitting there.

If you seal a dirty car, it won't bond to the paint and the durability will be affected more than a wax.

The sealant will lock in the glaze, but then the sealant is only attached to the glaze and not the paint. Glazes typically aren't known to be durable and that is what you just attached your sealant to.

A wax will protect the glaze just like a sealant, but because the wax is literally just sitting on top instead of trying to bond to the paint, you're not affecting the waxes durability.

I hope that makes it a little bit more clear, but keep in mind, not every piece of information can apply to every product on the market as every sealant, wax, and glaze has a different chemical make up and manufacturers may call something a glaze or a sealant or a wax when in fact it is something else.
 
I guess some sealants have filling properties, but I believe that most do not fill like a glaze would.

A sealant bonds and a wax sits on top. If you wax a dirty car (not actual dirt, but stuff that can only be removed by clay dirt), the durability won't change much because the wax is just sitting there.

If you seal a dirty car, it won't bond to the paint and the durability will be affected more than a wax.

The sealant will lock in the glaze, but then the sealant is only attached to the glaze and not the paint. Glazes typically aren't known to be durable and that is what you just attached your sealant to.

A wax will protect the glaze just like a sealant, but because the wax is literally just sitting on top instead of trying to bond to the paint, you're not affecting the waxes durability.

I hope that makes it a little bit more clear, but keep in mind, not every piece of information can apply to every product on the market as every sealant, wax, and glaze has a different chemical make up and manufacturers may call something a glaze or a sealant or a wax when in fact it is something else.

Where does this information originate from?

This is the first time I have heard some of this
 
Where does this information originate from?

This is the first time I have heard some of this

Just what I have gathered overtime from AGO and Adam's and what makes sense to me.

The best thing to do is try it out and see your results. Split your hood in half and on one side do glaze, sealant, wax and sealant, glaze, wax on the other side.
 
I guess some sealants have filling properties, but I believe that most do not fill like a glaze would.
If a glaze does "fill":
-How does it do it, and with what substances?
-What is it "filling-up"...paint-blemishes such as: swirls, scratches, oxidation...or, other?
-Can the "filling-up" substance(es) be seen in any of the above blemishes before, or after, the "fillers" have dried/cured?
-To what depth, of a blemish, can fillers fill?
-Is there any way to accurately measure "filling"?
-What if the paint has been perfectly corrected...has absolutely no blemishes...
What would a glaze fill?

IMHO:
Such an oddity, of descriptors, glazes seem to have come by nowadays.
In the same sense: Even more oddities associated with "fillers", as well.

Bob
 
If a glaze does "fill":
-How does it do it, and with what substances?
-What is it "filling-up"...paint-blemishes such as: swirls, scratches, oxidation...or, other?
-Can the "filling-up" substance(es) be seen in any of the above blemishes before, or after, the "fillers" have dried/cured?
-To what depth, of a blemish, can fillers fill?
-Is there any way to accurately measure "filling"?

IMHO:
Such an oddity, of descriptors, glazes seem to have come by nowadays.
In the same sense: Even more oddities associated with "fillers", as well.

Bob

Well Bob, I'm really no chemist when it comes to detailing products, but glazes are designed to cover imperfections. What they cover, how well they do it, and how they accomplish it obviously vary from product to product.

Perhaps the best advice for anyone is to email or call the manufacturer of the product you are using and ask what they recommend.
 
glazes are designed to cover imperfections.
IMHO:
Not necessarily always the case...
And:
That's just one of the facets of the glaze-debate that, so often, is polarizing.

Bob
 
IMHO:
Not necessarily always the case...
And:
That's just one facet of the glaze-debate that so often polarizing.

Bob

To satisfy my curiosity, can you post a glaze that has been designed to serve a purpose other than to help hide some sort of paint imperfection? And if such a glaze exists (that is not also a polish), is it really a glaze or just a marketing tactic?
 
To satisfy my curiosity, can you post a glaze that has been designed to serve a purpose other than to help hide some sort of paint imperfection? And if such a glaze exists (that is not also a polish), is it really a glaze or just a marketing tactic?
What glaze is not a polish?

Even M07 Show Car Glaze is a polish---a "pure" polish---nevertheless a polish.
It is even used on fresh paints, in lieu of a sealer-product, until the paint has completely off-gassed, as it were.

How a car-care product is labeled/named: has been, and will continue to be a hot-topic...
until this industry, or some government entity, steps up to the nomenclature-plate.

Bob
 
What glaze is not a polish?

Even M07 Show Car Glaze is a polish---a "pure" polish---nevertheless a polish.
It is even used on fresh paints, in lieu of a sealer-product, until the paint has completely off-gassed, as it were.

How a car-care product is labeled/named: has been, and will continue to be a hot-topic...
until this industry, or some government entity, steps up to the nomenclature-plate.

Bob

A glaze that does not contain abrasives.
 
most glazes contain micro-abrassives to help the glaze and "fillers" bond to the surface.
a real glaze contains (durable) oils that feed the paint. these can fill minor imperfections , same as the polishing oils do after polishing, hence the use of IPA...
no product will ever give you a 100% naked paint, not even for coatings, but suddenly, after using some IPA, the sealant bonds??? no, you believe it does.
how many sealants really state on the bottle you need 100% naked paint? not many.
I use glazes a lot, always use sealant and wax over them, never had a problem. had them lasting 6+months...
you can also apply a glaze, let it sit for a few hours, then remove with ipa . the oils will have feeded the paint, but won't fill anymore...
 
This is a complicated topic, primarily thanks to your detailing brands confusing matters by inventing and mis-using terminology.

Glaze is a rather ill defined term. I have never seen a fundamental formulation which covers it. From my time with detailers, it is intended to be a product which leaves a reflective residue which does not have anything more than short term durability. Such a product is really simple. However, we now have glazes which are not short term, we have numerous examples which contain functionalised fluids which are designed to be surface substantive. In simple words, they 'bond'. So we have products which bond and have pretty good durability... but isn't that a sealant?! To complicate things further, traditional type sealants contain a notable contribution from the same things which you would have in a simple glaze. A sealant will rarely just 'seal', it will seal AND glaze. The extent depends on the formulation. I have alluded to this already and my view is somewhat that a user should not need to seal and glaze - if this is truly a necessity, you should really consider a different sealant.

OK, so lets think about how all these things work. A glaze (as it is typically meant) is really just a layer of fancy oil on your paint. There is no bonding and the only durability comes from the natural hydrophobicity of the oil. A wax, in theory, just sits on top of the paint or whatever it is on, there is no bonding. These days, it is a very basic wax which operates this way, most will have polymeric content such that they will form some level of bond with the surface. This is why some waxes can be so durable. They have waxes and misc other things so waxes will effectively glaze as well. Sealants will tend to have the same sort of polymers which again and will form a bond to the surface.

In theory, the bonding will be modified by an oily layer that the glaze would leave. However, the truth is that the glaze is not sufficiently durable to survive the application of another product without modification. A solvent based sealant will almost certainly dissolve and mix with any basic glaze underneath it. In some cases, you could almost mix the two products before application and get the same results. The same will be true with a wax over the top, the simple abrasion and natural tendencies of the products mean that they will mix. In effect, most of the time, I would suggest that glazing and sealing/waxing after will just give you the same results as if your manufacturer added more fillers to the sealant/wax. With a simple glaze, there is simply no reason to believe that a sealant/wax layer 'locks it in'. This sounds like quasi-science produced by a marketing person.

Now, one of the fancier glazes is a bit different. The bonded element will often remain bonded whilst the filling element will 'mix'. The top product will then bond on top without significant harm (polymers bonding to polymers, like layering a sealant). So no harm there.

Glazes on top... a pure glaze it is pointless if you want any length of effect. It will certainly be removed by any amount of water and will potentially just evaporate away over time. Modified glazes, there is more merit but I don't see much difference compared to doing it the other way around - you will end up with mixing, a polymer network with a hotch potch of fillers/waxes/etc. in the surrounding region. I would further point out that, like it or not, many of those fillers are going to last a relatively short time because they are not bound within the network, whether part of a modified glaze, sealant or wax. The water repellency of the finish will almost undoubtedly outlast the appearance enhancement (this is something that you won't really be able to quantify by eye and, unsurprisingly, detailers only ever discuss the durability of the water repellency).

Coatings, totally different story. Most of the coating technologies cannot tolerate oily contamination prior to bonding. Many products claiming otherwise are likely just high end sealants. So if you must glaze with a coating, do it last.

Anyone who understands all that (without half a dozen reads! probably should give themselves a medal!
 
Glaze first, then sealant or wax. Or even all three if desired, but always in this order: 1. Glaze 2. Sealant 3. Wax


Absolutely correct! Otherwise the glaze will remove the wax/sealant as it also has cleaning properties.

Actually if you use for example PB blackhole alone you will not get any duration as it will dissapear in 2 weeks time max. But if you wax or seal above the glaze it will last longer.

I have seen many cars with this combo and the look is awesome since the glaze helps the wax to help the paint look so much better, depth and wet. I like it.


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Depends on which glaze is being used.
I love Chemical Guys EZ Cream Glaze.
It's acrylic based.
I've had good results first applying the glaze before a sealer or wax.
One combo that gives really good results is the Griot's Paint Sealant over the EZ.
Loved the shine if gave me.

Many here knows I always apply the EZ Cream Glaze after every full wash, it really boost the shine without added waxing.
 
Have you compared the CG EX with the PB blackhole?


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Actually the EZ was only my second glaze I've ever used.
Back in the day it was all #7 and used it many, many times.
Years ago a lot of cars had SS paints and the #7 worked wonders but I don't find it helpful on CC's but that's just me.

Then I found out about the EZ and never looked back.
Sure others can give you a comparison though.



Have you compared the CG EX with the PB blackhole?


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Why not have the best of both worlds in one product? I use Optimum GPS - Glaze Polish Sealant. Wetter than Chemical Guys Wet Mirror Finish. Super easy to apply/remove, won't stain trim and doesn't streak...even on dark colors.
 
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