Griot's PFM towels less absorbant... what did I do?

[evo77]

I watched a video by The Rag Company where they say that MF towels should not be washed in hot water because you ruin the plastic in the fibers.

I know GG says hot water is ok, which is surprising?

 

[Route246]

I watched a video by The Rag Company where they say that MF towels should not be washed in hot water because you ruin the plastic in the fibers.

I know GG says hot water is ok, which is surprising?

Hot water is OK.

 

[PaulMys]

I watched a video by The Rag Company where they say that MF towels should not be washed in hot water because you ruin the plastic in the fibers.

I know GG says hot water is ok, which is surprising?

If the fibers in their towels will be damaged by 130 degree water, then I'm not sure I'd be buying those towels.

 

[Eldorado2k]

I know this doesn’t apply to OP.
I’m simply posting this FYI coming from Griots official website.

Another thing I noticed is that they’re being a bit contradicting with their wash advice in their Q&A... They’re advising people to wash in “cold or warm water” whereas their packaging states to wash in hot water. I wish they wouldn’t do that. It would be nice to see someone give a definitive answer and have the guts to stand behind it for once. Stuff like this makes it seem like the detailing community has no real clue about microfiber..

Seriously it can’t be that hard for a company as large as Griots to find out the real deal once and for all. Am I the only 1 who’s tired of the microfiber myths?

 

[RippyD]

Interesting post from Griots. If hot water and doesn't work, I may try adding some pad cleaner to the washer. I'd go easy - front loaders don't like suds.

 

[GEM65]

Typically N-914, but I also use Reset, Duragloss 901, and in the summer several other rinseless products. These towels see either water on N-914 at 256:1 90% of the time. LSPs are all applied with other towels, but if you want to know I've got about 40 LSPs going right now. My coated car gets Reload occasionally (Ech2o+Reload). The others currently have mostly Dodo Future Armour and Sonax PNS. I typically don't use a drying aid.

Since no drying aid was used i can only think of the durable sealants is the culprit...or maybe the polymer in the car soap, rinseless wash ???
Confusing...
I've read your thread on the sealant durability test and appreciate what you did for us... Great Job

 

[MattPersman]

Gotta be disappointing about that. What about the old boil the MF trick that people did in the past.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mc2hill]

I watched a video by The Rag Company where they say that MF towels should not be washed in hot water because you ruin the plastic in the fibers.

I know GG says hot water is ok, which is surprising?

It depends on how your water heater is set. At MTE Levi from TRC's 'Microfiber 101' class said that anything over 140 degrees can damage MF. Since some have their water heaters set high, their blanket 'protect you from yourself' statement is to not use hot water. YMMV.

 

[Route246]

I know this doesn’t apply to OP.
I’m simply posting this FYI coming from Griots official website.

Another thing I noticed is that they’re being a bit contradicting with their wash advice in their Q&A... They’re advising people to wash in “cold or warm water” whereas their packaging states to wash in hot water. I wish they wouldn’t do that. It would be nice to see someone give a definitive answer and have the guts to stand behind it for once. Stuff like this makes it seem like the detailing community has no real clue about microfiber..

Seriously it can’t be that hard for a company as large as Griots to find out the real deal once and for all. Am I the only 1 who’s tired of the microfiber myths?

There is a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) out there regarding microfiber towels. I suspect much of it has to do with brand differentiation marketing in a commodity space. In other words, there isn't much difference between towels in various price segments because they all come from the same ODM factories in China and Korea. The factories all compete on quality(price), i.e. quality is a function of price. This is a space where excess profit breeds excess competition. It is all good for the consumer.

I just spent $500 on a bunch of MF towels from various sources. I didn't use the scientific method to test these towels, just put them all through whatever function I deemed them appropriate for. They all passed with flying colors. I only bought 360 gsm and above. I did not buy any towels where I could not get the country of origin, gsm (which I verified using a kitchen scale) and the polyester/nylon ratio. The only disappointment I had was the excessive use of dye in some of the darker towels. I fed this back to the supplier. In one case the supplier took this very seriously and confirmed it and said future batches will not have this problem. That clued me into their relationship with their offshore supplier. I asked the guy about his supply chain but he was reluctant to answer. I suspect there are reps in the US who broker these as I can't conceive that a towel vendor would be in Asia to make the buys unless it is a huge quantity to be ordered. Some darker towels did not bleed dye at all. This can be terrible if you get this dye bled into light-colored upholstery, IMO.

I would not hesitate to wash any of my MF in water that is less than 130F. Our tankless water heater is set to 120F which will scald if you hold your hand under it for too long but it is not scorching hot by any stretch of the imagination, and it certainly should not harm MF.

One more thing, I'm pretty sloppy with MF when I buff. I don't fold in quarters and flip the way I'm supposed to. This is a really good method if I am short of towels and want to save. But, I've hoarded and acquired so many towels that I just use them the same way I use a washcloth for bathing, laid out flat and only using the center portion away from the edges. Not really good technique but it works for me. I use at least 20 16x16 360 gsm towels just for drying with spray wax. I probably use 100 towels for 3 vehicles on my Saturday time slot. I'm using quite a few 16x16 400 gsm waffle weaves for glass, too. Door jams, wheels, etc. also use quite a few towels. I wash in two batches anyway and our washer is a professional front-loader so it is way over capacity for that many towels.

 

[RippyD]

Update: I washed them. I went with a hot water wash with no soap to see how that looked. Nothing showed up visibly. I then washed them in hot water with Towel Kleen and rinsed three times. I then did a short wash in hot water with no soap again. Nothing visibly in the water, but they got an extra hot and cold rinse. Then dried on low as usual.

Tested this morning and they all seem to be working better except for one of my small towels. Guessing I contaminated it somehow. Not sure I noticed this previously, but these towels don't seem to wipe well. They blot excellently. So I think the towels are good except for one which has to be my fault somehow.

Thanks for the help and discussion.

 

[fightnews]

I have both sizes. I use the small ones more often. Was drying the car the other day and noticed they are pushing some water around. They never used to do that. My large ones are fine. The smaller ones that get used more are the problem.

So what the heck did I do wrong? I always wash with 3D Towel Kleen. Always warm water with a pre-wash. Always multiple rinses. I sometimes use vinegar in the rinse cycle. I separate my towels but don't do drying towels by themselves. (Yes, I'm get that many have recommended this.) I always dry them on the lowest possible setting. They could have gotten washed with MF used to apply or remove sealants. Problem?

And is there a way to restore them to their previous absorbency? They look fine visually.

Did u wash them with glass towels or use them on Glass? That will do it

 

[fightnews]

The directions on the label of the Griots PFM towel say to wash with hot water.

Don’t soak it with degreaser.

The problem is hot water can be 102 in 1 persons house and 140 in another person's house. There's no mixing valve on the washing machine unless you select warm ur getting straight hot water from the heater

 

[Tempest45]

Update: I washed them. I went with a hot water wash with no soap to see how that looked. Nothing showed up visibly. I then washed them in hot water with Towel Kleen and rinsed three times. I then did a short wash in hot water with no soap again. Nothing visibly in the water, but they got an extra hot and cold rinse. Then dried on low as usual.

Tested this morning and they all seem to be working better except for one of my small towels. Guessing I contaminated it somehow. Not sure I noticed this previously, but these towels don't seem to wipe well. They blot excellently. So I think the towels are good except for one which has to be my fault somehow.

Thanks for the help and discussion.

Towel kleen is only a pH of about 8 as I recall when I tested it. Would recommend a presoak of water based degreaser with Oxiclean for a few hours, and wash with same.

This is how I'm now washing with great results. Need strong cleaners to attack dried sealants etc.

 

[RippyD]

Did u wash them with glass towels or use them on Glass? That will do it

Very easily could have done either. If the glass is clean why would this be a problem? What's the issue with washing with glass towels? I use glass-specific MFs (thin ones, not waffle weaves).

 

[6od]

Update: I washed them. I went with a hot water wash with no soap to see how that looked. Nothing showed up visibly. I then washed them in hot water with Towel Kleen and rinsed three times. I then did a short wash in hot water with no soap again. Nothing visibly in the water, but they got an extra hot and cold rinse. Then dried on low as usual.

Tested this morning and they all seem to be working better except for one of my small towels. Guessing I contaminated it somehow. Not sure I noticed this previously, but these towels don't seem to wipe well. They blot excellently. So I think the towels are good except for one which has to be my fault somehow.

Thanks for the help and discussion.

I found this thread as I was reading up on drying towels. Full disclosure: I am by no means someone who should be giving advice on auto detailing or anything as I've recently joined this forum to learn everything for the first time. Also, it seems your problem has mostly been resolved, but I just thought I'd post what little I can contribute to the auto detailing world, as an "outsider."

My hobby is my vinyl record collection. When that started, I got something called a Spin Clean which is like a bathtub for records, and the drying step involves using these specialized towels that came with the system. The towels were miserable. They're absorbent too a point, but they shed and the weave makes it nearly impossible to remove any particulate it attracts.

After speaking with a lot of other vinyl enthusiasts, I started used higher quality microfiber towels which didn't shed, and provided they were kept totally dust and lint-free (which is impossible unless you live in a laboratory), were easy to clean. But the golden rule was: don't put them in the dryer. Not even on air dry. Unless your dryer was brand new and was never used with a Bounce sheet or any other dryer sheet, and everything that was placed in there was totally free of any kind of fabric softener from the was cycle - then sure, go ahead. But apparently, the coating from dryer sheets stick as much to the walls and interior of a dryer, as they do to clothes/fabric/etc. I know you said you don't use fabric softener - but that generally just means with the wash cycle.

So now, I air dry all mine. I have never used liquid fabric softener so my washer (also HE front-load) is safe, but I just use skirt hangers and hang them on my shower curtain rod in the bathroom. I no longer use microfibers for record cleaning since I've upgraded my whole cleaning system to one that incorporates a vacuum, so I've repurposed those to my car. Although I only needed about 8 for the records, and I apparently need 10x times that so I have a ways to go.

Anyway. Just thought I'd throw in what I do know. My package of 16x16 PFM towels just arrived. Time for their first wash (which for me, will be on warm, because the water heater where I live is set to Backdraft).

 

[RippyD]

Interesting point and I can see how the dryer could be contaminated. My w/d are about 4 years old. I've never had fabric softener or dryer sheets in my house since I've owned those w/d. In fact, I've never used either as adult.

I'm a recovering audiophile. I feel your pain on the vinyl. I ripped all mine and have never looked back.

 

[AllenK]

I have two of the PFM towels. I dried 3 vehicles last weekend with one of them! I washed one car on a Friday,and I let the towel air dry over night. The next day I washed another car,and then used it on my truck immediately following that wash. Not one streak even on glass!

Washed with Towel Kleen in warm water and dried on low heat.

 

[jolo]

Maybe wash with McKees Coating prep wash?

 

[RippyD]

Don't have any and can't see buying it to test for this. It sounds like nothing more than an phosphate-free detergent and the description of it is a little confusing (removes waxes before polishing?).