Having issues with paint correction

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nprotz

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So I'm pretty new to using a DA polisher and have worked on 4-5 vehicles now. I'm using a Griot's GG6 DA polisher.

One vehicle I worked on was my older 99 model white GMC truck. It turned out pretty good considering how scratched and swirled it was, however it took a good while to make progress. I figured it was just too bad for the orange pads and compound I used. I used LC orange and BS orange pads and Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover

Next I tried my wife's 2015 Mercedes C300. It's a metallic blue/gray. It had some scratches, very very minor swirls, but then some spots that looked like a mix of pollutant and water spots. Orange pads did almost nothing. They did take out the very very light swirls/holograms. I then bought some Griot's Fast Correcting Cream. This didn't seem to help a whole lot, so I tried some Griot's microfiber pads. That worked but still took a long time having to go pretty slow and doing several section passes.

Next I tried my father in Law's GMC truck. I think it's like a 2012 or 2013. It's a peal white. I had the same problem as on this as on the Mercedes. I finally got it polished pretty good but it took way to long and too much effort.

The last car I tried was a 2017 Camaro 2SS Metallic Black. I didn't do the entire car but tried a spot since my friend was wanting to try out his Porter Cable polisher. The orange pads again didn't do much. Can't remember which compound we used.

From what I've seen, the orange pads are supposed to correct out swirls and light scratches. However I've found they don't do hardly anything on the scratches I've tried them on and take way too long on the swirls. Is it my correcting cream? Do I need something more abrasive than the Griot's? Is it pads? Technique? I have been using a 3-4 pea sized amounts on the pad and working on an 18" square section. I'd spread out the compound, polish one way, then do it the opposite way and repeat until the compound starts to break down. Maybe 4-6 passes per section. I see other people on here and on the Facebook group that make vehicles look like glass and I'm just not getting that.

Here's a video showing the Mercedes after doing a section. You can still see the spots
 
The orange pad won’t do much on hard paint, which it seems you’re working on. MF didn’t do much either. An 8mm free spinning DA isn’t the ticket for this type of work. Your technique might have something to do with it, but it’s probably more the tool. Griots FCC is good stuff.


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Tool: With a 8 mm DA, you will need to take your time. You need to move the polisher very slowly, about 1 inch per second max. You also need to put pressure on the pad, about 15 pounds worth. If you are not sure how much pressure that is, put the polisher on a balance and push down until it reads 15 pounds.

Pad: Orange pads are for polishing, not correcting. They will do a bit of correction but it will take for ever, especially with an entry level DA. You will want at a minimum a foam cutting pad, but idealy a microfiber cutting pad. Meguiars arguably make the best ones. If you decide to go with microfiber, you need to use a brush between every section you make to make the strands stand back up. Once they are crushed down they loose their ability to cut. Also clean the pad after every panel.

Product: You are working on hard paint, you will want a compound that can cut. I suggest Meguiars M101, that stuff is expensive but it is amazing. You can then use your orange pad with a polish to bring the shine back to the paint after the correctiong step.

I hope this answered all your questions. If you go on youtube and search for paint correction, you should be able to find tons of video on how to do it. Take the time to watch a few so you can avoid the common mistakes.
 
No help to you but this is why I skipped the 8mm and went with a long throw. Just a better machine. My recommendation to anyone starting out.

Yeah with an 8mm throw your probably moving to fast. Slow and easy wins the race with the gg6.


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Wrapt, Calendyr and Coatings are right on. All of those vehicles you worked on have, in my experience, at least medium and mostly harder paints to work. In those cases you need to switch to a more aggressive compound and a cutting pad to really flatten it out.

I'm not a big "pressure exerted" guy as I like my pad and product combo to do the work. Having said that, there have been times when I have used pressure with the machine to crush the pad BUT maintain pad rotation and very slow arm motion. This would be one of those times.

It can be done with a GG machine...just takes longer. That machine can happily and more easily refine the finish with a good second step after compounding to extract great gloss and shine.
 
nprotz said:
I used LC orange and BS orange pads and Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover
Click to expand...


What size backing plate? The Griot's comes with a 6" backing plate, this forces you to use large pads. Pad size can be a factor when it comes to 8mm free spinning DA polishers.

Also - Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover uses amazing abrasive technology, I trust it on ANY paint.

BUT - it's a MEDIUM cut polish. So it has limits. I'd highly recommend adding the Wolfgang Uber Compound, you will NEVER be disappointed in either product.



nprotz said:
I have been using a 3-4 pea sized amounts on the pad and working on an 18" square section.
Click to expand...

You need MORE product. Try again with a CLEAN DRY foam cutting pad and use NICKEL size dollops.

I think I have an article somewhere that makes fun of all the detailing Gurus and Experts that preach pea sized drops. That's ridiculous. You need a certai amount of product to get the job done.

Any expert teaching pea sized drops probably on shows a demo on a hood because when you buff out ENTIRE cars you know this is ridiculous.


:laughing:
 
Read this,

How to correctly use an AIO or Cleaner/Wax by Mike Phillips


Read this,


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide




Watch the video in post #2 of this article,


Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips


Also in the above article is a TON of information on pads and backing plates for this tool. Also lots of info on microfiber pads. FIBERS ARE ABRASIVES - so consider a quality microfiber pad if you want to simply cut faster than foam can cut. Just keep in mind, fibers also lead to micro-marring on soft and medium paints. So always do a Test Spot, which is also covered in the video in the article I linked to above.

Other things you can do is shrink the size of your work area down when working on harder paints.

Make more passes.

Be sure to mark the back of your backing plate and also side of buffing pad - the pad MUST rotate in order to remove defects. If the pad is not rotating you're wasting your time.

On any 8mm free spinning tool you also want to be on the highest speed setting.


Hope that helps.... I'm not at work as I type so without my arm holder uppers and a full size ergo keyboard I'm never as efficient at typing out info.


:)
 
Another option is the GREY Lake Country ThinPro foam pads. These are very stiff and sharp foam cutting pads. I rarely use them as they are so hard BUT they are sharp and cut fast.

I show the owners of this old 2-door Chevy using them on the anemic Porter Cable to remove severe water spots, (the worst type of defect to remove in my opinion besides tracers and pigtails), and the owner and his buddy had zero experience and thus zero skill to work with and with the pad they removed the spots

1955 Chevy Bel Air with a $15,000.00 Custom Paint Job - How to remove water spots


Since others shared their tools of choice, if it were me I would have put a foam cutting pad on a BEAST and just got it over with. :)



Million ways to skin a cat....



:)
 
Paul A. said:
Wrapt, Calendyr and Coatings are right on. All of those vehicles you worked on have, in my experience, at least medium and mostly harder paints to work. In those cases you need to switch to a more aggressive compound and a cutting pad to really flatten it out.

I'm not a big "pressure exerted" guy as I like my pad and product combo to do the work. Having said that, there have been times when I have used pressure with the machine to crush the pad BUT maintain pad rotation and very slow arm motion. This would be one of those times.

It can be done with a GG machine...just takes longer. That machine can happily and more easily refine the finish with a good second step after compounding to extract great gloss and shine.
Click to expand...

I don’t like a ton of pressure either. All of these vehicles, especially my Jeep, have very thin panels. The guy that replaced some vinyl on my Jeep leaned on the hood and dented it all up. He had to pay a dent guy to fix it. So I’m cautious about pressure. I used more pressure on my truck and the hood would push down and pop up like a can.


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Mike Phillips said:
What size backing plate? The Griot's comes with a 6" backing plate, this forces you to use large pads. Pad size can be a factor when it comes to 8mm free spinning DA polishers.

Also - Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover uses amazing abrasive technology, I trust it on ANY paint.

BUT - it's a MEDIUM cut polish. So it has limits. I'd highly recommend adding the Wolfgang Uber Compound, you will NEVER be disappointed in either product.





You need MORE product. Try again with a CLEAN DRY foam cutting pad and use NICKEL size dollops.

I think I have an article somewhere that makes fun of all the detailing Gurus and Experts that preach pea sized drops. That's ridiculous. You need a certai amount of product to get the job done.

Any expert teaching pea sized drops probably on shows a demo on a hood because when you buff out ENTIRE cars you know this is ridiculous.


:laughing:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input Mike! I bought the Griots 5” vented backing plate and all my pads are 5”. I did use more product initially but then back off some. Still don’t think I was using nickel sized drops though. My first time polishing, I had primed the pads first like in one of your videos but had a heat issue and posted here...seems like I was told not to prime so can’t remember. I’ll definitely try more next time.


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
 
Mike Phillips said:
Another option is the GREY Lake Country ThinPro foam pads. These are very stiff and sharp foam cutting pads. I rarely use them as they are so hard BUT they are sharp and cut fast.

I show the owners of this old 2-door Chevy using them on the anemic Porter Cable to remove severe water spots, (the worst type of defect to remove in my opinion besides tracers and pigtails), and the owner and his buddy had zero experience and thus zero skill to work with and with the pad they removed the spots

1955 Chevy Bel Air with a $15,000.00 Custom Paint Job - How to remove water spots


Since others shared their tools of choice, if it were me I would have put a foam cutting pad on a BEAST and just got it over with. :)



Million ways to skin a cat....



:)
Click to expand...

Thanks so much! I bought some of the Thin Pro Orange in 5” and one gray in 3”. I like the gray ok but using the bigger ones the machine seems to wobble. It doesn’t seem as smooth as the normal pads. The gray does seem to cut well though.

What tool are you referring to as the Beast?


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I started with a 3401. I knew if I went with something less, I would want more like hp. I would of wasted money. 2-3 passes
 
Mike Phillips said:
What size backing plate? The Griot's comes with a 6" backing plate, this forces you to use large pads. Pad size can be a factor when it comes to 8mm free spinning DA polishers.

Also - Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover uses amazing abrasive technology, I trust it on ANY paint.

BUT - it's a MEDIUM cut polish. So it has limits. I'd highly recommend adding the Wolfgang Uber Compound, you will NEVER be disappointed in either product.





You need MORE product. Try again with a CLEAN DRY foam cutting pad and use NICKEL size dollops.

I think I have an article somewhere that makes fun of all the detailing Gurus and Experts that preach pea sized drops. That's ridiculous. You need a certai amount of product to get the job done.

Any expert teaching pea sized drops probably on shows a demo on a hood because when you buff out ENTIRE cars you know this is ridiculous.


:laughing:
Click to expand...

You touched on items I forgot to mention ;) I think that once the pad is full of product, using pea size drops (4 of them for me) is ok. But to start a dry pad, it's definatelly not enough product. What is your view on priming the pad Mike? I am on the fence. I have primed and not primed and not seen much of a difference. Priming uses a lot of product and seems to get the pad gunked up much faster... so I went back to not priming...

Pad size was a big item I forgot... definatelly want a 5.5" pad on a 8mm DA. I wish using 4" pads was easier, that is the one size I do not have for lack of offering both for backing plates and pad companies. I think 3" takes too long to do anything but 5.5" if often too large for some very curvy pannels. 4" would be amazing for those ;(
 
nprotz said:
I don’t like a ton of pressure either. All of these vehicles, especially my Jeep, have very thin panels. The guy that replaced some vinyl on my Jeep leaned on the hood and dented it all up. He had to pay a dent guy to fix it. So I’m cautious about pressure. I used more pressure on my truck and the hood would push down and pop up like a can.


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
Click to expand...

You need to put enough pressure for the abrasives to engage the paint. With no pressure the polisher is just floating on the panel not doing much. There is a sweet spot where you are putting just enough pressure to engage the abrasives but not enough to slow down the rotation. 15 pounds is about the ideal pressure.

On long throw machines Rupes has promoted the no-pressure method for a long time... and I used it... but when my Rupes broke down last year (and it's still in the shop for a second time, going on 3 months now...) I had to switch to the Griot's G15 and in order to get correction done, pressure was needed. I think Rupes don't want you to put pressure on their machines because the motor is pretty weak and it might break faster or you might simply loose pad rotation too quickly if you did. In any case, you can do correction without pressure but it's much less effective... especially on hard paint.
 
nprotz said:
Thanks for the input Mike! I bought the Griots 5” vented backing plate and all my pads are 5”. I did use more product initially but then back off some. Still don’t think I was using nickel sized drops though. My first time polishing, I had primed the pads first like in one of your videos but had a heat issue and posted here...seems like I was told not to prime so can’t remember. I’ll definitely try more next time.


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Click to expand...

If you use microfiber it's better to prime. You want all the strands of fibers to be able to do some work. On foam, as I was mentionning to Mike... I am not convinced it is a good idea...
 
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