HD Speed Topping Question

[drei4runner]

Speed with an immediate top of 845 or now I usually use double coat (paste version of 845). Speed alone in so cal is 30 days max with lots of impurities imbedded, speed with 845 is about the same with a little less impurities imbedded, BUT speed with double coat is 2 months and very few impurities imbedded.

Topping with poxy I found the poxy looks good but it's thin, doesn't feel protective and usually wears off in 30 or less.

I really like the speed/ double coat but I'll be looking in to ceramic coatings to see if I can avoid all this work and washing & double waxing every 2 months vs just washing every month and coating once or twice a year?

I used the HD Poxy for the first time on my son’s car about a week or so ago and the reflection doesn’t seem to pop us much compared to when I first put it on. Also compared to my vehicle, which still has a nice reflection to it after using Duragloss about two weeks ago.

Wish I didn’t buy such a big bottle of the HD Poxy and should have just stuck with Duragloss. Oh well, you live and you learn and since this is my first time detailing any of my cars myself and just trying to test out the different products. I might just give the HD Poxy to family


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[SWETM]

This kind of question come up from time to time and I still cannot understand the regulars here posting answeres like yes, top it with this or that...

HD Speed is an AIO. You use an AIO to save steps. So if you are gonna put a dedicated protectant after correcting, why use an AIO? You will get far better results in the correction step with a one step compound than with Speed. So instead of using Speed to correct, then apply a sealant on top (that will very likelly melt the montan wax it contains with it's own solvents and lay down a more durable LSP), just use a one step and apply the sealant you want. You will get far better results doing this than what you are planning to do.

I agree with you that I have also trouble to see the benefit with an AIO and then topped. The AIO I have you get at least 3-4 months from and with good abrasives in it to correct wash marring and minor swirls on a rock hard VW clearcoat. But use an AIO with less than a month from I suspect you would be reapply a LSP and some kind of decon wash maybe soon again.

What I have read about with the use of an AIO and then topped. Is that you skip the step with wipe it off until you are finished. And can polish a little faster this way. Also since leaving it on you have easier to see where you have polished. Just what I have seen in the debate about it.

Don't know how it is since many polishes now days is water based. If a pure polish has less of the cleaning ability than the solvent based ones. Then even if they are water based they use an emulssion solvent which is soluble in water.

If I would top Speed I would look at a Montan wax based wax. So even if you would desolve the Speed you still get the looks from Montan wax. BLACKFIRE BlackICE Hybrid Montan Sealant Wax and Dodo Juice Purple Haze is 2 waxes with Montan wax in them.

 

[Sports Fan]

Here's one thing I don't understand. People act like topping Speed is odd...because it already contains a wax/sealant....but wouldn't that make adding a second coat of anything to anything a bit odd as well? For example, if adding a layer of Poxy on top of Speed is odd...wouldn't adding a second coat of Collinite 845 on top of Collinite 845 odd as well?

 

[dlc95]

Here's one thing I don't understand. People act like topping Speed is odd...because it already contains a wax/sealant....but wouldn't that make adding a second coat of anything to anything a bit odd as well? For example, if adding a layer of Poxy on top of Speed is odd...wouldn't adding a second coat of Collinite 845 on top of Collinite 845 odd as well?

I think It's because the protection qualities of Speed are perceived (and in some cases demonstrated) as short term.

At that point one of two things might happen.

1. The topper will experience a short lifespan degrading as Speed degrades. This assuming Speed itself fails in a short time span.

2. The solvents in the topper remove the protective component of Speed, negating It's use in the first place where using a dedicated polish would have made more sense.

I'm not really into topping AIO products unless It's a durable polymer like DG 101 or 501. From there I'll apply a carnauba wax if I feel so inclined.

 

[Calendyr]

Here's one thing I don't understand. People act like topping Speed is odd...because it already contains a wax/sealant....but wouldn't that make adding a second coat of anything to anything a bit odd as well? For example, if adding a layer of Poxy on top of Speed is odd...wouldn't adding a second coat of Collinite 845 on top of Collinite 845 odd as well?

Yes, it is actually useless. The solvent in the product disolves what ever is on the panel. You are not gonna get any benefit by layering.

 

[Sports Fan]

I think It's because the protection qualities of Speed are perceived (and in some cases demonstrated) as short term.

At that point one of two things might happen.

1. The topper will experience a short lifespan degrading as Speed degrades. This assuming Speed itself fails in a short time span.

I've heard that Speed generally lasts a month to maybe two months tops....whereas Poxy (which is the protective wax/sealant contained in Speed) can apparently last anywhere between 3 to 6 months (generally 4 or 5) by itself.

2. The solvents in the topper remove the protective component of Speed, negating It's use in the first place where using a dedicated polish would have made more sense.

Yes, it is actually useless. The solvent in the product disolves what ever is on the panel. You are not gonna get any benefit by layering.

Hmmm....interesting. According to 3D, Speed is 25% Poxy (the other 75% is Polish+ and some other chemicals found in Adapt, Cut, etc., or some variation thereof)....and since Poxy is a wax/sealant and doesn't contain any abrasives or solvents that should dissolve or diminish anything (simply bond to the paint) it must be the solvents from the polish portion of Speed that would dissolve or diminish the protective qualities of Poxy. But if that's the case, why would Poxy be included with Speed in the first place? I understand people saying that the better approach may be to polish with Polish+ and then apply Poxy for better paint correction/enhancement and longer, more durable protection....but I've read where people have topped Speed with Poxy and other waxes and sealants and extended the durable by several months...so it is somewhat confusing, in all honesty.

 

[Calendyr]

I've heard that Speed generally lasts a month to maybe two months tops....whereas Poxy (which is the protective wax/sealant contained in Speed) can apparently last anywhere between 3 to 6 months (generally 4 or 5) by itself.





Hmmm....interesting. According to 3D, Speed is 25% Poxy (the other 75% is Polish+ and some other chemicals found in Adapt, Cut, etc., or some variation thereof)....and since Poxy is a wax/sealant and doesn't contain any abrasives or solvents that should dissolve or diminish anything (simply bond to the paint) it must be the solvents from the polish portion of Speed that would dissolve or diminish the protective qualities of Poxy. But if that's the case, why would Poxy be included with Speed in the first place? I understand people saying that the better approach may be to polish with Polish+ and then apply Poxy for better paint correction/enhancement and longer, more durable protection....but I've read where people have topped Speed with Poxy and other waxes and sealants and extended the durable by several months...so it is somewhat confusing, in all honesty.

Yes because when you try to "top off" speed, what actually happens is that the solvent in your topper (Proxy) will liquify the wax on the vehicle and it will mix with Proxy. Then when it cures, you have a mix of the two products bonded to the paint instead of the original wax. So if you mix a 1 month product with a 6 months product, you can expect a durabilty of both combined... so something like 3-5 month maybe?

If you use a pure polish instead of speed, you will get better paint correction and no protection. Then when you apply Proxy, you get the full benefit of that sealant (6 months).

 

[dlc95]

I've heard that Speed generally lasts a month to maybe two months tops....whereas Poxy (which is the protective wax/sealant contained in Speed) can apparently last anywhere between 3 to 6 months (generally 4 or 5) by itself.





Hmmm....interesting. According to 3D, Speed is 25% Poxy (the other 75% is Polish+ and some other chemicals found in Adapt, Cut, etc., or some variation thereof)....and since Poxy is a wax/sealant and doesn't contain any abrasives or solvents that should dissolve or diminish anything (simply bond to the paint) it must be the solvents from the polish portion of Speed that would dissolve or diminish the protective qualities of Poxy. But if that's the case, why would Poxy be included with Speed in the first place? I understand people saying that the better approach may be to polish with Polish+ and then apply Poxy for better paint correction/enhancement and longer, more durable protection....but I've read where people have topped Speed with Poxy and other waxes and sealants and extended the durable by several months...so it is somewhat confusing, in all honesty.

To keep waxes and sealants suspended in an emulsion, solvents or some type of softening agents need to be used to keep these in a liquid or semi liquid state. Once applied to the paint, exposure to air caused the wax to dry. As this happens, the solvents flash off leaving the protection behind after the residue is removed.

These solvents might be (and probably are) strong enough to have an effect on Speed.

 

[conman1395]

It's pointless to top an AIO in my opinion, because I can find plenty of polishes that correct as well and clean out from my pads better than AIO. Then I'll just follow up with an LSP that is more durable. So.... Why would I do the same amount of work and time with an AIO and follow that up when I can do better in both steps?

 

[Avgguy]

I wouldn't wipe it down. I used HD Speed & topped it with 845 (3 coats) back in late August.

Although the beading isn't quite what it was right after I applied this combo, 8 months and one awful NY winter later it is still beading water very, very well.

Hope this helps.

Ok, so it's almost a 3 year old post but I have the same experience.... top Speed with 845 and I get 8-9 months.... not a scientific test but eye test it's still beading well after 8 months. If I DON'T top Speed it stops beading after 6-8 weeks max.

Help me understand why it's not worth topping/topping doesn't work/useless, etc. (provided I decide to invest the extra time to top). Not being argumentative just wanting to understand.

 

[PaulMys]

Ok, so it's almost a 3 year old post but I have the same experience.... top Speed with 845 and I get 8-9 months.... not a scientific test but eye test it's still beading well after 8 months. If I DON'T top Speed it stops beading after 6-8 weeks max.

Help me understand why it's not worth topping/topping doesn't work/useless, etc. (provided I decide to invest the extra time to top). Not being argumentative just wanting to understand.

I don't agree that topping an AIO is useless. I get the argument against it though.

The reason I use Speed over a dedicated polish most times is because it is such a great product to work with. Applies/removes very easy, smells great, and it leaves paint incredibly slick & glossy.

Just to note, I have used dedicated polishes and topped them. I don't see the difference between topping say, Griot's Correcting Cream, or Speed.

If a product works as good as Speed, why not use it? AIO or not.....

JMO

 

[acuRAS82]

Ok, so it's almost a 3 year old post but I have the same experience.... top Speed with 845 and I get 8-9 months.... not a scientific test but eye test it's still beading well after 8 months. If I DON'T top Speed it stops beading after 6-8 weeks max.

Help me understand why it's not worth topping/topping doesn't work/useless, etc. (provided I decide to invest the extra time to top). Not being argumentative just wanting to understand.

The more recent arguments (from years ago) seemed to think that Collinite would last longer if not topped on Speed. Therefore using Collinite on a clean, freshly polished, bare surface would be the alternative they are pointing out. I myself can’t claim that as true though; just pointing out what others were saying.

I personally go either way, and have no problem topping AIOs. I’ve never noticed poor longevity from LSPs topped on an AIO vs the LSP on bare surface. Plus I do think having the AIO can change and enhance the look (Speed being so glossy), Essence for instance even though its meant as a primer.

I am a strong proponent that using some AIOs saves a lot of time and ease due to waiting for the wipe off. I don’t blame anyone for wanting to take advantage is AIO ease even if topping after.

 

[DetailZeus]

I also like the option to immediately top just the "high impact" areas. Adding a little spray sealant to the front clip, hood, and mirrors only takes a few extra minutes. Then a few washes down the line I can "top" the whole vehicle, still well within the protecting life of the AIO.

 

[rangerbay]

Alone it doesn't seem to last very long. Month max is what I would use it for. Top it off with a spray wax after a wash will keep things in check. I've used it for so many cars. I wish it had a bit more correction to it. Does anyone know how to adjust the correction on it in terms of speed on the DA or pressure or amount of product used?

Mix 2 drops of hd one on the pad with the speed. Cuts great and let's speed to it's job. Super combo.