HD Speed - wrong pad choice or bad technique?

evo77

evo77

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I'm a newbie to machine polishing. Well sorta. It's been many years since I've used my Meguiars G100 machine and I only used it one other time.

After watching many polishing videos I decided to lightly polish the wife's 15 Dodge GC using HD Speed. I used a LC CCS 5.5" orange pad. Added 5 dime sized dots. Kissed the paint. Spread the product on 2 setting and bumped up to 6 with slow passes.

Here is the issue I ran into...

Despite my attempts at trying NOT to over saturate the pad it ended happening anyway and it appears to have started gumming up. I had to clean the pad with air and a towel before every section I did. Is that normal?

Here is the pad after working a section with 4 passes. Small pea sized dots (5). I had just cleaned the pad prior to...

What am I doing wrong?
 
Where are you located (weather related question)?
What were the temps while working?
Were you under shade or direct sunlight?
How many pads did you use?

Typically I use 6 pads for paint correction
4 for polish
1 or 2 for applying LSP.

HD Speed and or any compound/polish will start acting flaky when temps start approaching 88 and beyond.
 
Had the same thing happen to me last week. It was hot and humid. Even though I was in an air conditioned garage, the product was all but impossible to get off. I switched to Essence and CarPro Gloss Pads. I had no problem once I switched. I have done probably 20 cars with Speed and never had it behave like it did last week.
 
paul_g said:
Where are you located (weather related question)?
What were the temps while working?
Were you under shade or direct sunlight?
How many pads did you use?

Typically I use 6 pads for paint correction
4 for polish
1 or 2 for applying LSP.

HD Speed and or any compound/polish will start acting flaky when temps start approaching 88 and beyond.
Click to expand...

Chicagoland
Working in a ventilated garage.
Was 75-78 degrees and humid.
I used this one pad for the entire vehicle.

I didn't realize you needed to change pads as often as that? I thought that if you constantly cleaned the pad you can use the same one for the job.
 
I've used Speed a ton of times and never seen that. I believe that your problem is using only the one pad. Keep in mind, after you do a section pass, you have spent product residue as well as removed paint that gets into the pad. Cleaning on the fly with a towel can only get so much of that out. I usually rotate through 6 pads when using Speed and sometimes even that gets iffy towards the end.

Also, speed 6 might be a bit fast for Speed. Try speed 4 and do 2-3 passes per section.
 
evo77 said:
Chicagoland
Working in a ventilated garage.
Was 75-78 degrees and humid.
I used this one pad for the entire vehicle.

I didn't realize you needed to change pads as often as that? I thought that if you constantly cleaned the pad you can use the same one for the job.
Click to expand...

So, essentially you answered you're own question w/out knowing it. Heat build up on a pad is insane. This is why Griot's engineered the entire BOSS system to work together, i.e. tool, pads, creams, etc.
When I first tried to use a LC Hydrotech pad on my BOSS G15, after one body panel it flung the pad off the velcro.
78 deg inside, + humidity + the temperature of your pad heating was enough to tip it over the edge of being effective and useful.

As Mike's article points out, pads become saturated and even cleaning on the fly (helps somewhat) but eventually the pad just becomes to saturated to even cut effectively. I change pads like crazy doing a car.
The product & pad must work together.

ski2 said:
I use the same number of pads as paul_g and clean them on the fly after every 2 sections-- haven't had any problems with Speed in hot weather. Here's an article buy Mike Phillips regarding the number of pads to use per step and why: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-how-many-pads-do-i-need-buff-out-my-car.html

Surprised you didn't melt the pad.
Click to expand...


Great reply! That article is one of my all time favorites!
 
Five dime sized drops is a LOT of polish too.

From what I understand, four small dots is usually adequate to start, then three from then on.
 
dlc95 said:
Five dime sized drops is a LOT of polish too.

From what I understand, four small dots is usually adequate to start, then three from then on.
Click to expand...

Wow just noticed the "five dime sized drops"--that is allot for any HD product. David Fermani recommends 5-6 PEA sized drops for the first section and then 3-4 PEA sized for each after that---it works for me. That amount of product with just one pad is a sure set up for failure. Pad must have saturated in no time.
 
Way too much product. Dime is too much. I use 5 pea sized in a star pattern. I hate those ccs pads, I'm a flat pad guy. Too much product builds up and gums up in the dimples on those pads. As others have noted, you need to switch pads out more often. Judging by the looks of that pad it's over saturated, been heated up and is starting to blow out based upon the way it looks all puffy.

One thing for sure with all HD Polishes, a little goes along way. Same as with HD Poxy Sealant. In most cases when their are issues with HD Polishes it's due to over usage of the products.

My number one rule when it comes to polishing, you can never have too many fresh pads. :buffing:
 
Thanks guys. I don't think I've ever noticed threads discussing the need for multiple pads. If there were I must have completely missed them. :( This pad costed $10. So I'll have to spend another $50 for five more??

I should clarify that I initially used 5 dime spots when the pad was bare. Then after that point I proceeded with smaller pea sized dots (still 5) because I knew the pad already had product.

The reason I used speed 6 was I assumed this was the best way to get quicker cut. I did experiment with slower speeds but it didn't quite cut as fast enough through some tiny scuffs here and there on the paint.

Here are screen shots from 3Ds youtube channel on application of Speed on two different videos.
 
evo77 said:
Thanks guys. I don't think I've ever noticed threads discussing the need for multiple pads. If there were I must have completely missed them. :( This pad costed $10. So I'll have to spend another $50 for five more??

I should clarify that I initially used 5 dime spots when the pad was bare. Then after that point I proceeded with smaller pea sized dots (still 5) because I knew the pad already had product.

The reason I used speed 6 was I assumed this was the best way to get quicker cut. I did experiment with slower speeds but it didn't quite cut as fast enough through some tiny scuffs here and there on the paint.

Here are screen shots from 3Ds youtube channel on application of Speed on two different videos.
Click to expand...

6 pack B & S 5.5" and you have a 25% off sale running till midnight tonight too.

Buff and Shine 5.5 inch Flat Foam Pads 6 Pack - YOUR CHOICE!
 
evo77 said:
Thanks guys. I don't think I've ever noticed threads discussing the need for multiple pads. If there were I must have completely missed them. :( This pad costed $10. So I'll have to spend another $50 for five more??

I should clarify that I initially used 5 dime spots when the pad was bare. Then after that point I proceeded with smaller pea sized dots (still 5) because I knew the pad already had product.

The reason I used speed 6 was I assumed this was the best way to get quicker cut. I did experiment with slower speeds but it didn't quite cut as fast enough through some tiny scuffs here and there on the paint.

Here are screen shots from 3Ds youtube channel on application of Speed on two different videos.
Click to expand...

I hear great things about HD Speed, but no product is a panacea. Sometimes you just have to use another product, maybe even for that one spot.

Dime size is probably too much, even for a bare pad. I don't think I've ever used that much of any product - even on a bare pad. Like custmsprty, I'm applying five small dots around the circumference of the pad in a star shape.
 
The problem is the pad.

HD Speed gums up way to fast due to the "wax/sealant" protection it leaves behind.

And you are using a CCS pad

"CCS stands for Collapsed Cell Structure. The face of a CCS pad is covered in strategically placed pockets. These pockets are locations where the foam cells have been closed. Polish does not absorb into these closed cell pockets, leaving more product on the pad's surface and on the paint."

HD speed does not play good with closed cell pads, it gums up way to fast and when buffing leaves a weird film pattern and does not work wet.

The lake country flat pads were great because the pads absorb the product and that's what you want when using speed.

Again avoid closed cell technology like.

Hydrotechs
CCS
Etc.

I used hydrotechs pads with speed and it was nightmare on elm street.

Switched to the lake country flat pads and all good.

The lake country flat pads work great with HD speed.

There should be a sticky thread about this. It comes up alot.
 
evo77 said:
Chicagoland
Working in a ventilated garage.
Was 75-78 degrees and humid.
I used this one pad for the entire vehicle.

I didn't realize you needed to change pads as often as that? I thought that if you constantly cleaned the pad you can use the same one for the job.
Click to expand...
Hey I'm from Chicago too 😊
Joe@NextLevelDetail said:
The problem is the pad.

HD Speed gums up way to fast due to the "wax/sealant" protection it leaves behind.

And you are using a CCS pad

"CCS stands for Collapsed Cell Structure. The face of a CCS pad is covered in strategically placed pockets. These pockets are locations where the foam cells have been closed. Polish does not absorb into these closed cell pockets, leaving more product on the pad's surface and on the paint."

HD speed does not play good with closed cell pads, it gums up way to fast and when buffing leaves a weird film pattern and does not work wet.

The lake country flat pads were great because the pads absorb the product and that's what you want when using speed.

Again avoid closed cell technology like.

Hydrotechs
CCS
Etc.

I used hydrotechs pads with speed and it was nightmare on elm street.

Switched to the lake country flat pads and all good.

The lake country flat pads work great with HD speed.

There should be a sticky thread about this. It comes up alot.
Click to expand...
Good to know about the pads
I have HD speed but haven't try it😀

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
 
I would agree with the "too much product" and "wrong pad" replies. I use speed and use a green b&s with my flex but I want to try my Bigfoot and I'm not sure which LC thin pro pad color to use just yet. Leaning towards white.
 
Joe@NextLevelDetail said:
The problem is the pad.

HD Speed gums up way to fast due to the "wax/sealant" protection it leaves behind.

And you are using a CCS pad

"CCS stands for Collapsed Cell Structure. The face of a CCS pad is covered in strategically placed pockets. These pockets are locations where the foam cells have been closed. Polish does not absorb into these closed cell pockets, leaving more product on the pad's surface and on the paint."

HD speed does not play good with closed cell pads, it gums up way to fast and when buffing leaves a weird film pattern and does not work wet.

The lake country flat pads were great because the pads absorb the product and that's what you want when using speed.

Again avoid closed cell technology like.

Hydrotechs
CCS
Etc.

I used hydrotechs pads with speed and it was nightmare on elm street.

Switched to the lake country flat pads and all good.

The lake country flat pads work great with HD speed.

There should be a sticky thread about this. It comes up alot.
Click to expand...


Not to hi-jack the thread but, Joe, have you tried speed with the BOSS pads?
I do use Speed with CCS pads, but I use one pad per body panel, therefore I haven't had any issues, but I can see where one would.
 
evo77 said:
I used this one pad for the entire vehicle.

I didn't realize you needed to change pads as often as that? I thought that if you constantly cleaned the pad you can use the same one for the job.
Click to expand...

Speed is a one-step cleaner/wax. With compounds and polishes, the liquids are either solvents or water and usually some combination of both and they are more or less water soluble. With a cleaner/wax or a cleaner/sealant you have water insoluble products that provide the long lasting protection and it is these ingredients that can build up and become gummy just as a characteristic of these types of ingredients.

Cleaning your pad often will help but in a perfect world more pads is better.


How many pads do I need to buff out my car?


Here's a write-up I did buffing out Wayne Carini's Rainman Car. I used McKee's Jeweling Wax which is also a one-step cleaner/wax. I took pictures showing how many pads I used.


How to jewel paint with McKee's 37 Jeweling Wax and a Porter Cable 7424XP


Starting out
Wayne_Carini_Rainman_Car_016.jpg




After I was done - note the pads have wax on them...

Wayne_Carini_Rainman_Car_031.jpg



Stick a fork in it because this car is DONE!

Wayne_Carini_Rainman_Car_025.jpg








dlc95 said:
Five dime sized drops is a LOT of polish too.
Click to expand...


When buffing out cars using a one-step cleaner/wax you actually want to use the product heavy or wet. The words heavy and wet are TERMS for how much product to use. When you rely on a SINGLE product to,

  1. Clean/abrade
  2. Polish
  3. ProtectYou
YOu want a lot of the product or a lot of the liquids on the surface WORKING FOR YOU. The more neglected the paint the wetter you use the product (to a degree).


Check out what I say about using one-step cleaner/waxes in post #3 of this article,


How to choose and use a one-step cleaner/wax by Mike Phillips


Because you use a one-step cleaner/wax (also generically called an AIO), you want to use a lot of pads so you can switch to a clean, dry pad often.


:)
 
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