HELP - Calibrating the HighLine Meter II

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ironman1982

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Rasky and any others that own one,

Just got my Highline II meter in today and am trying to calibrate it using the two "standard shims" Can anyone outline the process for us thick skulled individuals? I understand that one shim is Ferrous (Steel I presume) and the other is Non-Ferrous (Aluminum I presume). Both shims are covered on both sides with a plastic film typical of sheet metal. Are you supposed to remove one side's plastic and leave the other on so that the bare side is the zero calibration level and the plastic covered side is the "coated" side which you are supposed to adjust via the mem button to the "expected value"? The only number I could find as a possible expected value from the instructions is "50um" (46um - 54 um) range including the error tolerances. If so, are both shims to be adjusted to read 50um when measuring the plastic covered side? The Fe shim's two coatings appear different from one another so I am curious that if you are supposed to take one side off for a zero side which side do you remove? Also from reading above it looks like you must reset to factory calibration for each material separately. How exactly do you reset to factory settings? Do you measure the shim just to turn the display on then press and hold the "-" symbol till "0" then "00" then "000" appears then just let the meter auto turn off or are you supposed to then at that time remeasure the shim?

Sorry for all the questions and I know to those who own this and know how to use it these questions probably seem idiotic but the instructions are IMHO horribly written and very vague.

Thanks so much in advance for any and all help you can provide and I hope that this can be an educational thread.
 
I had to reread the manual several times before I got it. You need to take the plastic off to calibrate them. With the shims, use the smallest and second largest one. No need to use the 500 micron unless the paint you're working on is that thick. So I would use the 50 and 250 micron ones. I got this info from highline themselves via email and it worked nicely.
 
mxfly said:
I had to reread the manual several times before I got it. You need to take the plastic off to calibrate them. With the shims, use the smallest and second largest one. No need to use the 500 micron unless the paint you're working on is that thick. So I would use the 50 and 250 micron ones. I got this info from highline themselves via email and it worked nicely.
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So is there another coating on the metal besides the plastic which constitutes the "coating"? Also, I only had two shims in my kit, that was all, one is ferrous and the other reads non ferrous. They are both the same diameter and look to be the same thickness overall. By 50 and 250 do you mean that under the plastic is a coating that is clear and 50 um thick and the other disc has a coating that is 250 thick? or are you saying that both shims have both depths of coating just 50 on one side and 250 on the other side? If each type (ferrous and non ferrous) have differing coatings then how would you calibrate each material type equivalently? Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. At first it appears that I might be short a shim or two but I will wait for more replies before calling the OEM up.

Thanks!
 
Think I figured out a surefire method for calibration

Well I think I understand the process a little better after playing around with the shims. I took the plastic covering off both of them and am only using them to get a zero reading for bare steel and bare aluminum. I took a piece of paper (actually the instructions themselves), since paper is known to be fairly uniform (AND non-metallic) and measured its thickness in a vernier micrometer which is accurate to 0.0001 in or 0.1 mil which is 2.54 um, I believe. It measured to be 3.5 to 3.6 mil no mater where I took the measurement. Knowing this, I placed the paper over the metallic discs after zeroing on the bare surface and took a measurement. It was off by a little on the steel disc (~0.3 mil or so). I followed the instructions by pressing the mem button and using the +/- buttons to adjust the reading to the expected value of 3.5 mil. I then zeroed on the aluminum and took the paper and measured with it on top of the disc. The reading on this surface was quite a bit lower (~2.2 mil). So I hit the mem button and adjusted it to the expected value of 3.5 mil. Once both were calibrated, repeatability on both surfaces using the paper was spot on. Since I do not have a "known" thickness non-metallic reference, I ordered a set of precision plastic measurement shims from a large online retailer who's name you might find on a map of South America which start at 0.001" and work up from there.

Find them by searching for: "Precision Brand 13 Piece Plastic Thickness Gage Fan Blade Assortment 1/2" x 5" Blades"
 
Usually (for eddy current testers) the calibration "foils" are little slips of plastic of varying thicknesses...it's hard to tell from your description if what was on the calibration substrates was the foils or simply the plastic protection which might come on polished sheet metal.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Usually (for eddy current testers) the calibration "foils" are little slips of plastic of varying thicknesses...it's hard to tell from your description if what was on the calibration substrates was the foils or simply the plastic protection which might come on polished sheet metal.
Click to expand...

The only thing on my two shims was a plastic "trash-bag" like stretchable covering that resembles what saw raw sheet metal comes covered in. I think they are just stamped out of a large sheet and the plastic is left on them as one edge of each shim is raised ever so slightly as all unfinished stamped parts are. There were no slips of plastic anywhere in the packaging. What I ordered is just like a machinists set of feeler gauges only in plastic.
 
ironman1982 said:
The only thing on my two shims was a plastic "trash-bag" like stretchable covering that resembles what saw raw sheet metal comes covered in. I think they are just stamped out of a large sheet and the plastic is left on them as one edge of each shim is raised ever so slightly as all unfinished stamped parts are. There were no slips of plastic anywhere in the packaging. What I ordered is just like a machinists set of feeler gauges only in plastic.
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yeah, that's what it sounded like. The only problem with what you're doing is it starts at .001 which is kind of thick if you're trying to measure what you're polishing off...I have an Artus shim set which has .0005 and .00075 as well as .001 on up. But I guess since you will be measuring in the .004-.006 range usually you should be fine with what you bought.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
yeah, that's what it sounded like. The only problem with what you're doing is it starts at .001 which is kind of thick if you're trying to measure what you're polishing off...I have an Artus shim set which has .0005 and .00075 as well as .001 on up. But I guess since you will be measuring in the .004-.006 range usually you should be fine with what you bought.
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Hmm....might have to see if I can get some additional shims that go below the 0.001 thickness. If all this meter can do with calibration is two points though, I wonder if it would be more advantageous to calibrate with a shim closer to its max range or one that is a small as you can buy. I would think that calibrating at its max range would be better if all it does is use a simple y=mx+b interpolation equation based on two endpoints of data. Any thoughts on that point?

Thanks for the info!
 
I don't know what the algorithm is, I'm sure you'll be fine if you calibrate with a .005 since that's probably nominal, and bracket it with a .010 and .001 or .002 to see how far off it is.

The other thing I'd be wary of is if perhaps there's anything in that shim stock that might skew the readings...since it might be recycled or not high purity. I'm sure you can buy a set of calibration foils somewhere...I'm sure they are way overpriced, too. It really seems like Highline should have given you some, especially since they gave you the substrate pieces...perhaps they just got left out.
 
Well after conversing with Chad (Rasky) via PM on this it appears that I am missing the plastic shims entirely out of my shipment. He said there were 5 in the one he has. Mine had zero! No wonder I was so confused as I thought the instructions were referring to the metallic discs as the calibration shims and just chalked that up translation errors from Chinese to English lol. I am going to contact Highline about my missing shims this afternoon. Thanks all!
 
Sorry for late reply. Yes you're definitely missing the 4 plastic shims! Here's what they look like.

IMG_2469_resize.jpg
 
mxfly said:
Sorry for late reply. Yes you're definitely missing the 4 plastic shims! Here's what they look like.

IMG_2469_resize.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the pic mxfly! Yep I do not have the shims nor the paper possessing the table that describes them in you pic. I called Brad at Highline yesterday. He said that it was the very first time he had heard of this happening and that they don't stock spare shims so he would TRY and get a few pieces out of another set and wanted to know which shims I would need. Having JUST gotten this thing and not even used it on paint I really don't know which shim would be the best to calibrate on. I told him to send the ones best suited for automotive clear finishing. What really started to get under my skin was his questioning a few times what I was doing calibrating the meter and that it came calibrated from the factory. My response was the manual says that you can do it and provides instructions so I want to know how to do it in case I ever have to. Besides, when I restored the meter to factory defaults following the instructions (I did it for both materials) and measured the same piece of paper across the two different metals I got two very different thicknesses which means that it was either NOT calibrated correctly at the factory OR the reset to factory defaults does not work as prescribed (either one unacceptable).
 
No problems. Glad to help out. I believe you should ask for all 4 of the shims. You paid for the item so you should get what you've paid for. Don't settle for less :)

When mine arrived, I did a test on all 4 shims with both substrates and the reading was way off. It wasn't like a few microns off, it was like a 20% margin when I calculated it. So when I read that it's supposed to be calibrated already from factory, I wouldn't rely on that information. I recalibrated mine with both substrates and with the lowest and second highest shims and viola, the readings were within tolerance. I didn't use the thickest shim as I rarely need to measure that thickness anyway.

Companies will always make mistakes. It's only human nature but what separates the good from the awful ones is how they deal with them. I've had a couple of issues with orders in the past from AG and when I raise these issues with Penny, she has always been diligent and rectified them straight away. It's this kind of service that I've continued to do business with AG. :xyxthumbs:
 
mxfly said:
No problems. Glad to help out. I believe you should ask for all 4 of the shims. You paid for the item so you should get what you've paid for. Don't settle for less :)

When mine arrived, I did a test on all 4 shims with both substrates and the reading was way off. It wasn't like a few microns off, it was like a 20% margin when I calculated it. So when I read that it's supposed to be calibrated already from factory, I wouldn't rely on that information. I recalibrated mine with both substrates and with the lowest and second highest shims and viola, the readings were within tolerance. I didn't use the thickest shim as I rarely need to measure that thickness anyway.

Companies will always make mistakes. It's only human nature but what separates the good from the awful ones is how they deal with them. I've had a couple of issues with orders in the past from AG and when I raise these issues with Penny, she has always been diligent and rectified them straight away. It's this kind of service that I've continued to do business with AG. :xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...

20%!?!? :wow: I almost never rely on factory calibration as the environment of mass production and environmental conditions play a large part in the reading. Personally, I think that the device (really any measurement device especially electronic) should be allowed to warm up and then calibrated before each session every morning especially if the procedures are as easy as these. I also agree very much so on the issue of customer service. When I told Brad that I had ordered a set of shims from Amazon, he was like (and I paraphrase here)..."Oh....well I guess I don't have to send you the shims then do I?" I basically said that I paid for them, and so I wish to receive them especially since I don't know the quality of the ones I ordered from Amazon. I never have had an issue with any AG order but have always heard great feedback from fellow forum members on their top notch customer service. I will gladly pay more for a product if it comes with such great support. I really don't wish to call and talk to a machine or person in a satellite support center in India!!!

Take care
 
ironman1982 said:
Thanks for posting the pic mxfly! Yep I do not have the shims nor the paper possessing the table that describes them in you pic. I called Brad at Highline yesterday. He said that it was the very first time he had heard of this happening and that they don't stock spare shims so he would TRY and get a few pieces out of another set and wanted to know which shims I would need. Having JUST gotten this thing and not even used it on paint I really don't know which shim would be the best to calibrate on. I told him to send the ones best suited for automotive clear finishing. What really started to get under my skin was his questioning a few times what I was doing calibrating the meter and that it came calibrated from the factory. My response was the manual says that you can do it and provides instructions so I want to know how to do it in case I ever have to. Besides, when I restored the meter to factory defaults following the instructions (I did it for both materials) and measured the same piece of paper across the two different metals I got two very different thicknesses which means that it was either NOT calibrated correctly at the factory OR the reset to factory defaults does not work as prescribed (either one unacceptable).
Click to expand...

Just came across this post in a search myself trying to figure how the f*** to calibrate this thing. I got the HL II also.

I gotta say...reluctantly, their customer service SUCKS...one more time, SUCKS.

First I placed the order, got an order confirmation, but 3-4 days later still no shipping confirmation. I emailed them and asked if it had been shipped, i got a call right away (about the ONLY decent customer service out of this whole ordeal), and they tell me "Oh, well the HL II is on back order" (Nothing on their site listed that) "You should have gotten a cancellation email and refund" I got the refund, but never did receive a cancellation notice.

I told him that i had ordered this thing 2 weeks in advance of a high end detail i was going to do that was a re-paint and really would have felt more comfortable having the meter. His response was "Well for an extra $70 i can over night the HL I to you if you'd like"...ummm NO THANKS.

Forward about 10 days, I email and ask if they know when they will be back in stock...NO reply.

A few days later i email again and ask the same question, I also ask if i could at least be granted some sort of a discount or shipping upgrade for my inconvenience...NO reply.

Finally a little over 2 weeks after my initial order, i get an email saying they got in a new stock (not a personal email but more like a news letter email sent to everyone who had attempted to order). NO mention of any type of discount or shipping upgrade for the inconvenience.

I figure ok, WTF ever, i'll just order it cause i need it. This time i get NO email...at all! No shipping notification, no order confirmation...nothing. I email....again...and ask if my order even went through...they write back and send me the tracking #...but still no receipt. I respond asking if they'd send me my order confirmation email...they finally do.

Then i ran into your problem man...the calibration. The instructions, as you guys know...are rather vague...don't really explain that well what to do. I wasn't sure whether to pull the coating off or not, just like you. My readings of course were off.

So, stupidly, i emailed again asking for help with calibration...guess what...no f***ing reply. I emailed a second time and finally got a call.

His response was basically the same you got "well it came from the factory calibrated". I told him i know but the readings were off so i was trying to recalibrate it and wondered if he could email me a bit more 'layman's termed' instruction as to how to properly calibrate it. I got a rather smug and condescending reply of "Well the calibrating instructions are only about 3 sentences long."

Wow, really? So basically im a dumb ass and its my problem not his. His final reply was "Well if you can't get it to work just ship it back and our techs will take a look at it, our turn around time is pretty fast" HAH! YEAHHHHHHHHHHH I'm sure it is! I asked if i would be compensated for shipping "No thats on you"...I asked even on a BRAND NEW meter? "Oh, its brand new?" (apparently he didn't really read my email) "Well, they come precalibrated like i said...if you want to call in when you get home with the meter in front of you and have someone talk you through it you can do that but, otherwise you'll just have to ship it back"

After service like that...NO, i dont think i will call in.

So right now the only problem im having is, when i take a reading...and its WRONG...how im suppose to use the +/- signs to get it to read what i want, all it does is cycle thru the previous readings..it doesn't actually make it go up or do single digits.

Any advice?
 
Ok nevermind, i re-read what you guys talked about and finally got it to calibrate correctly on both metals.

Now my next questions (if this thread isn't too old)...how do you actually use this on PAINT. I mean i know how to get the readings but, how do i know how much of the reading is actually clear coat..and how much is base/primer?
 
Wills.WindowsAndWheels said:
Ok nevermind, i re-read what you guys talked about and finally got it to calibrate correctly on both metals.

Now my next questions (if this thread isn't too old)...how do you actually use this on PAINT. I mean i know how to get the readings but, how do i know how much of the reading is actually clear coat..and how much is base/primer?
Click to expand...

wow that's horrible customer service. I'm glad you finally figured it out by "yourself". This meter does not show each layers reading, but rather give you the whole number for you to figure out a baseline to map the whole car with.
 
This thread prompted me to grab my meter and check it's accuracy. For some reason it's not giving me a reading, just getting "- - -" so I decided to hold the "+" button for 2 secs and then calibrate it. I gives 0.0 during calibration but then it still gives "- - -" when I try to read the paint thickness with a shim. Did I do something wrong?
 
Cg6LeMoN said:
wow that's horrible customer service. I'm glad you finally figured it out by "yourself". This meter does not show each layers reading, but rather give you the whole number for you to figure out a baseline to map the whole car with.
Click to expand...

Yeah it was horrible...extremely horrible and looks like it was not JUST me that got some shotty customer service...seriously if i was even HALF that bad my business would (and rightfully so) be in the ground in no time.

feds27 said:
This thread prompted me to grab my meter and check it's accuracy. For some reason it's not giving me a reading, just getting "- - -" so I decided to hold the "+" button for 2 secs and then calibrate it. I gives 0.0 during calibration but then it still gives "- - -" when I try to read the paint thickness with a shim. Did I do something wrong?
Click to expand...


Hmm, when i calibrated it i held the + and then held it against first the metal and then the aluminum disc, both would read zero. Then i would take a shim and hold it flat to one of the discs and have it read it...if it read correctly id leave it alone and then check it on the OTHER disc. If it were to read incorrectly, id hold the 'memory' button and then adjust the reading + or - to where it should be at and then store it...then id repeat the same thing with the other shims. Then i went back through all of them again to make sure they stayed where they should...and everything read right on...on both discs.
 
Hi guys!

I just received my highline meter I! I checked with the plastic shims to see if the reading were accurate and its seems like its perfect BUT i just wanted to make sure so im posting here!

When i tried the plastic shim 426-+5um my meter was reading ~423,296-3um meter reading ~290, 120-1um meter reading 119 and finally 51-0.5um meter reading 49.

I read the whole thread but since mine is the first version I don't have the + or - button so i dint really get what you guys were referring to.

Thanks!
 
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