Help - First timer trying to Polish and Wax with DA (having some issues)

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Maturola

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Hi everyone, long time reader of the forums, just joined recently to share some deals and some feedback. this time I need some help from someone more experienced than myself.

Quick background, I got a Black 2007 911, I recently moved into a house with a garage so I can finally do my detailing more often and comfortably. So the past few weeks i've been reading reviews, watching ton of videos and reading this forums a lot. I got my a GG6 Orbital polisher, many car care supplies and a workbench.

Today I decided to give it a try and all i did was to mess it up. Here is where I am. I cleaned and Washed the car, Clayed and everything was great up to there, doing the little clear bag test yield a smooth surface.

I started polishing with Griots Machine polish 3, my paint is on pretty good shape except for the hood and roof, as my daily driver it gets pretty nasty. So as no seeing any improvement with #3, I went head and started using #2. After a couple of tries, I cannot see any change at all. The hood have this very small chips all over, they are not deep, I cannot feel it with my fingernail however they are many and all over the hood (and roof).

Once the polish is spread it is very hard for me to remove it, it's getting hard really quick and it is hard to wipe, so I noticed that I am creating new scratches when I wipe. I think something is not right.

While I am in the garage, the temp outside is like 150F, and the humidity index is like 1000% (Atlanta, GA), could this be the issues?

Any ideas of what I am doing wrong?

I am using Gold plush microfiber and I am also tried CG El Gordo Professional Extra Thick Supra Microfiber, same results. Also using Orange (looks pink to me, but it said orange on the packaging) GG PADs.

I couldn't get a good picture, however this one show those white spots, they are the chips I am talking about (they are not white, but they look like that on the pic, I think the flash is making them reflective).

Any help is welcome.

Thanks
 
Porsche has notoriously soft paint that is susceptible to DA haze following compounding. Rubbing the paint vigorously to remove polish residue will scratch the paint. The towels you are using are fine, as long as they are very clean

If the polish is drying on the paint...I suspect you are using too much polish or are working too large of an area at a time

I am unfamiliar with the Griots line of polishes, but they are seldom.mentioned on the Forum. I prefer Menzerna products for Porsche paint. For basic swirls without a lot of RIDS, I had success withSF2500 on a white pad followed by SF4000 on a black pad.

The chips cannot be polished away. They require touch-up. For this many chips on a nice car like yours; I would suggest finding a professional in your area.
 
allenk4 said:
Porsche has notoriously soft paint that is susceptible to DA haze following compounding. Rubbing the paint vigorously to remove polish residue will scratch the paint. The towels you are using are fine, as long as they are very clean

If the polish is drying on the paint...I suspect you are using too much polish or are working too large of an area at a time

I am unfamiliar with the Griots line of polishes, but they are seldom.mentioned on the Forum. I prefer Menzerna products for Porsche paint. For basic swirls without a lot of RIDS, I had success withSF2500 on a white pad followed by SF4000 on a black pad.

The chips cannot be polished away. They require touch-up. For this many chips on a nice car like yours; I would suggest finding a professional in your area.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir, I'll look into the Menzerna products.

the are I am working is about 14 x 12'' (just a little more than twice the size of the pad), I didn't think that was too much.

so the little chips I see, need to be repainted? even when they don't see so deep? I cannot feel them with my nail.
 
polish drying would be either not using enough polish, or not enough lubrication while polshing.

did you prime your pad before going at it?

do you have any product to help remove polish residue like meguiars d114 (rinseless wash with no additives extra additives).

you could try a few things. work a small area, 1'x1' and see if your polish still dries up.

be sure to prime the pad up good so it's not soaking up all the oils as you're trying to work it. i'm not familiar enough with griots polishes to say whether or not its being worked long enough, but that may be an issue also.

i would definitely try a spray to help wipe away the polish residue, you could even use a quick detailer to get the polish residue off, spray and let it soak, then wipe away in a scooping motion. then use a 5-10% isopropyl alcohol mix with distilled water to remove the oils and qd residue to check your work.
 
Do not use IPA wipedowns on soft Porsche paint, it will cause marring

I suggest that if you are using wax as your LSP...skip the wipedown step entirely, except for the initial test spot

If your LSP REQUIRES a surgically clean surface. I suggest CarPro Eraser on soft paint


You should be doing a small test spot to see if your process is working before you polish the entire vehicle. It will save you a lot of time
 
allenk4 said:
Do not use IPA wipedowns on soft Porsche paint, it will cause marring

I suggest that if you are using wax as your LSP...skip the wipedown step entirely, except for the initial test spot

If your LSP REQUIRES a surgically clean surface. I suggest CarPro Eraser on soft paint


You should be doing a small test spot to see if your process is working before you polish the entire vehicle. It will save you a lot of time
Click to expand...


fyi... carpro eraser is an ipa mix...


2. Chemical description Chemical formula Con
tent CAS No. Remark
Isopropyl Alcohol < 30% 67-63-0
Dionized water > 60% 7732-18-5
Sodium lauryl ether sulfate 1%-3% 685-34-2
odor additive 1% proprietary
Click to expand...

the sles is a surfactant, same thing if you were to use a qd and then use ipa
 
TurboToys said:
fyi... carpro eraser is an ipa mix...




the sles is a surfactant, same thing if you were to use a qd and then use ipa
Click to expand...

FYI back at ya'

CarPro has a lot of ingredients, wonder what they do?

They provide lubrication


Have you used Eraser? The difference is easily felt


I have tried IPA on a dark blue 911. I will not do it again.
 
TurboToys said:
polish drying would be either not using enough polish, or not enough lubrication while polshing.

did you prime your pad before going at it?
Click to expand...

Thank you Sir, I don't think I cure the pads correctly, I spread the polish a little bit but i will try again and do better.

TurboToys said:
do you have any product to help remove polish residue like meguiars d114 (rinseless wash with no additives extra additives).
Click to expand...

I do have, i have optimums and Griots spry wax.

TurboToys said:
you could try a few things. work a small area, 1'x1' and see if your polish still dries up

be sure to prime the pad up good so it's not soaking up all the oils as you're trying to work it. i'm not familiar enough with griots polishes to say whether or not its being worked long enough, but that may be an issue also.

i would definitely try a spray to help wipe away the polish residue, you could even use a quick detailer to get the polish residue off, spray and let it soak, then wipe away in a scooping motion. then use a 5-10% isopropyl alcohol mix with distilled water to remove the oils and qd residue to check your work.
Click to expand...

Will give it another shot in a smaller area and use some lubrican to remove the polish.
 
Meguiars #7 hand glaze feed the paint before correction do a search I am not good with links.. But that's what u want to do..
 
allenk4 said:
FYI back at ya'

CarPro has a lot of ingredients, wonder what they do?

They provide lubrication


Have you used Eraser? The difference is easily felt


I have tried IPA on a dark blue 911. I will not do it again.
Click to expand...


i listed the "ingredients" above... water, ipa, fragrance, and a surfactant.

aka, ipa and qd

i would trust an msds sheet over someones sense of "feel"
 
TurboToys said:
i listed the "ingredients" above... water, ipa, fragrance, and a surfactant.

aka, ipa and qd

i would trust an msds sheet over someones sense of "feel"
Click to expand...

Ok then

It must have been bad technique on my part. I got marring on Porsche paint


Have you tried Eraser?
 
TurboToys said:
i listed the "ingredients" above... water, ipa, fragrance, and a surfactant.

aka, ipa and qd

i would trust an msds sheet over someones sense of "feel"
Click to expand...

I re-read the thread to make sure I didn't miss anything. Specifically your post #6. You suggested IPA, but in your recent post you are referring to a mix of IPA and detail spray?

Mixing IPA and QD may work

Which detail spray do you suggest? Can you link me to the MSDS sheet?

Looking forward to experimenting

Thanks
 
allenk4 said:
I re-read the thread to make sure I didn't miss anything. Specifically your post #6. You suggested IPA, but in your recent post you are referring to a mix of IPA and detail spray?

Mixing IPA and QD may work

Which detail spray do you suggest? Can you link me to the MSDS sheet?

Looking forward to experimenting

Thanks
Click to expand...

You guys are making this complicated =) :bolt:

I got the Menzerna 2500 & 4000 on order, I also ordered me a smaller backing plate (5'') and 5.5'' Pads.

I'll do another try once those items arrive. :xyxthumbs:
 
Maturola said:
You guys are making this complicated =) :bolt:

I got the Menzerna 2500 & 4000 on order, I also ordered me a smaller backing plate (5'') and 5.5'' Pads.

I'll do another try once those items arrive. :xyxthumbs:
Click to expand...

one thing i would personally stay away from when correcting, would be using a spray wax.

the wax could be acting as a filler giving false correction results. you may think you got it all but marring could be hidden by the wax in the spray. that's why i mentioned using something like d114 which has no wax or anything in it that gets left over, but still has the cleaning power of a QD due to the polymer technology they use in it for rinseless and waterless washes.




allen, i suggested using ipa and a qd because of the stated "soft paint". what dilution of ipa were you using on your cars?

5% is plenty to remove oils, if you go too high on the ipa content you'll end up with what looks like marring, but is actually just leftover polish residue that has no oils in it, i had this problem before when doing black paints. too high of an ipa mix gives a hazy, almost scratched look when trying to wipe away reside of m105 or m205. keep the diltuion down to 5-10%, and experiment with different QDs. but i would stay away from any QD that claims to have wax, or swirl hiders, etc. stick to the ones that promote cleaning like the meguiars professional line. in case you didn't know, ipa is not really a good cleaner itself, it is a great way to remove oils, but if you have ever tried to use ipa as a literal cleaner, you would see that it makes it very hard to pick up any kind of dirt or anything with it. same for anything leftover with the oils. it doesn't take a lot of it to dissolve the oils from the polish, but you'll need more than just ipa to get a good wipe. which is why carpro does have a good mix for an ipa cleaner. it has anti-scratch properties, and less than 30% ipa (even though 10 has been proven plenty). so theres nothing wrong with using it, but it is still an ipa mix.

thats just my opinion because i try to stay away from AIO type products now. i don't even want my wash water or contain things to make it "shine" because it's only going to go over the stuff that i really want to make it shine. and i don't want to remove anything that is going to get into the way, easier to never put it there to start.





Maturola, sorry for the long post.

cliffs for that are, try not to use anything with wax in it to check your work, use a dilution of 5-10% ipa and the rest distilled water (or a 50-50 mix of distilled water and a quality QD without wax in it). gentle swipes are good.

once you get your system down, you can work your panels, get them relatively clean, and then wash the whole car afterward to remove the remaining oils and any leftover residue safely and then check for small spots that may still need a little more work. but if you have your system down, you should be 90% good.
 
TurboToys said:
Maturola, sorry for the long post.

cliffs for that are, try not to use anything with wax in it to check your work, use a dilution of 5-10% ipa and the rest distilled water (or a 50-50 mix of distilled water and a quality QD without wax in it). gentle swipes are good.

once you get your system down, you can work your panels, get them relatively clean, and then wash the whole car afterward to remove the remaining oils and any leftover residue safely and then check for small spots that may still need a little more work. but if you have your system down, you should be 90% good.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir, Nothing to be sorry about it, leaning is the only way to get better, I've been taking notes and researching everything you guys had posted so I can get to the right combination. I specially like the feedback from those steps that had already work on Porsche paint.

I'll get some of that D114 and I think i got everything else.

y the way something I am not 100% if I understand...that D114 you recommend would be consider a QD, right?
 
allenk4 said:
I re-read the thread to make sure I didn't miss anything. Specifically your post #6. You suggested IPA, but in your recent post you are referring to a mix of IPA and detail spray?

Mixing IPA and QD may work

Which detail spray do you suggest? Can you link me to the MSDS sheet?

Looking forward to experimenting

Thanks
Click to expand...


i'm not chemist, but i can read and use some common sense towards a lot of things.

and if you look up the surfactant they use, "Sodium lauryl ether sulfate", you'll find it's most common uses are in our health and everyday use, like shampoo, toothpaste, etc. it's what causes that foaming and "soapy" texture in the products.

on the other hands, if you look at a lot of other msds for bodyshop safe cleaners, they don't contain this chemical. partly because there will be some left behind, which i'm sure isn't an issue for carpros products, as i can imagine that the solvents found in their products used shortly after eraser take care of removing any surfactant still around by dissolving it before evaporating.

my best advice would be to try a couple of mixtures to see what works out best, i would stick with rinseless, or wax free quick detailers and see which one gives the best result. there are lots of different chemicals that are used to do the same job. just a matter of finding which one seems to work best .



if you used the ipa in the rinseless d114, i would expect it might work as you'd like.

the propelyne glycol would be considered the polymer that would help carry away dirty and polishing compound/residue etc

Multiple uses of propylene glycol
■
solvent
■
connects and stabilises insoluble fluids (emulsifier)
■
holds and dissolves active ingredients equally in a
medium
■
attracts/holds water/moisture (hygroscopic)
■
reduces the freezing point, increases the boiling point
■
high flash and boiling point (outstanding stability
Click to expand...


the ethoxylated alcohols would be the surfactant, instead of the SLES

Ethoxylation is an industrial process in which ethylene oxide is added to alcohols and phenols to turn it into a surfactant. The invention of the process is attributed to Schöller and Wittwer at I.G. Farben industries.[1] Common surfactants produced by ethoxylation include alcohol ethoxylates and alcohol ethoxysulfates.
Click to expand...

the Benzaldehyde would be the "fragrance" , comparable to carpros "fragrance" listed.

45% is used as an odorant and flavoring chemicals; 30% as an intermediate for dyes; and 25% for the manufacture of other chemicals (1965)
Click to expand...




so it would be safe to say that not only this product would perform the same function, decently. but so would others as well.

testing would be the best way to determine what works best with what.
 
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