Help, I went to far while wet sanding

[bluebimmer]

I believe I may have created a monster while trying to remove a baked on, week old birdbomb from the roof of my car (dime sized). I noticed the etching after washing my car and thought I would be able to smooth it out using the Pinnacle Ultimate Polish, it didn't do anything, then I tryed Swirl X, Scratch X, then the Meguiers rubbing compound. I was at a loss until I got the bright idea of using the pads that came with a turtlewax headlight lens cleaning kit. I figured the plastic lenses were much softer then the paint on my 06 bmw. I used the purple then the blue pad and it seemed to be working fine until I noticed a little blueing of the rubbing compound while smoothing the haze from using the pads. Needless to say my heart was in my throat and I knew this was not good. I put the brakes on this project. I would like to try to build up some CC over the spot that I damaged and hope that it works, any better ideas or inputs to my debacle would be greatly appreciated. I do know if all else fails, a reluctant trip to the paint shop is in my future. I would rather try, failing or succeeding is better then giving up and not getting anything for my time and effort.

I still have about 10 small birdbomb etchings on the rest of my car and feel a bit reluctant to do anything about it, I know every time I look at my car they will stand out like a neon sign and drive me nuts. So I ordered the Meguiars Mirror Glaze #105, 205 from you guys hoping this might help me get a handle on this and not create more problems. I have watched all the videos and read more post then you can shack a stick at. I do have a Porter-Cable 7424 DA w/ the orange and gray pad that came as a starter kit. Anything else I may need before I do this.

 

[oldmodman]

Do not sand any further! If you are working on clear coated paint and are suddenly seeing color on your pad the paint job, at least in that area is already damaged.
I had a similar problem on the roof of my old explorer.
I bought two cans of spray clear coat. Wiped down the entire roof with paint prep, roughed up the entire roof with a 3M abrasive pad, wiped down the roof again. Taped up the whole rest of the car with newspaper and sprayed the roof with the clear coat. I got three coats of clear out of two 12oz cans. I let it dry for a month in the sun and then LIGHTLY polished it to remove just SOME of the orange peel (it had LOTS). Then let it dry for another month then sealed it. It matches the original 1992 clear fairly well.

And regarding the other bird induced paint damage. Ignore it unless you want to paint the entire car.

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

If you cut through the clear, it's time to visit a paint booth, bud. Sorry!

 

[A4 1.8tqm]

You *can* tape off the section, cover the car and spray clear over the damaged area. The technique I figured out for blending the tape line is to sand through the new clear around the edges and remove the remaining unneeded clear... hmm, better make a diagram...

Here's how I blended a clear coat tape line on my car, the orange line is the blended area between new and old clear.

It just depends on the amount of effort you want to put in and your intentions for the car. Is it a show car? A daily driver? A beater? Have fun with it and let us know what you do and how it works out. :cheers:

Edit: From the looks of that trim it's not a show car... :dig: :bolt:

 

[loudog2]

I feel bad about your damage. Use the PC and the megs polish on the rest. Clay them first. I would get some more pads(add some white), usually 2-3 of each.

 

[builthatch]

OP, i've found that a safe way to get rid of or lessen relatively deep rids and/or super-etched spots (once all surface junk is removed via cleaning/claying) is a yellow 4" spot buff pad with a PC and optimum compound. it will give you quick results yet it's hard to go too far if you keep checking your work. it goes slow enough in terms of progress where you can gauge if something is gone enough to make it hard to see unless studied closely. of course when you are done with it you'd have to refine it with an appropriate less aggressive pad and optimum or comparable polish.

as far as your burned patch...you can try some of the DIY bandaids but, especially on a roof, it'll deteriorate. the plus is many roofs are their own "square" as they are separated from the rest of the car via roof rails/gutters (a 5th gen 3-series is a good example), so many times it's not that tough to refinish the entire panel (or get it refinished) w/o having to blend into sail panels, etc., etc.

one thing to remember with new cars is the bean counters have the painting process dialed down to the last drop. they use the bare minimum of paint required to give them the intended lifetime. new cars as a rule just have ultra thin clear.

 

[bluebimmer]

Thanks for everyone's input, I placed a new order this morning for a couple of 5.5" yellow & white pads . The one's that I have are 6.5" and don't center that well on the 1st try. I did smooth out some of the etching on my paint yesterday but it still looks like some one put cigarettes out on it. It was tempting to use the rubbing compound with my DA and an orange pad but the directions said it was for hand application only. I'll just wait for my orders to arrive next week and have another go at it.

As for the the CC, I'm waiting on that also but I ordered that before I posted and didn't order the spray, I ordered the brush version thinking it might be wiser to build the spot up slowly over a couple of days with a toothpick. But now I'm rethinking that after reading A4 responds. The next couple of weeks should be interesting. I'll try the spray if the toothpick method doesn't work, and if it's still a no go, then I'll go have it fixed. But at least I tried, and besides, they will have to sand it down anyway. I will post before and after pic's good or bad, maybe some one could use them as a " What not to do " if things go south.

Oh, A4 I definitely don't have a show car, I think trim you were looking at was the felt seal from the sunroof, if not, then some how your able to the rest of my car and yes it needs work. LOL

I think to keep this from reoccurring I'm going to have to persuade my wife in to letting me park in the garage when I am gone longer then a day or two, I know she's not going to clean bird doo off my car.

Thanks again!

 

[Flash Gordon]

Welcome to the club rops:

Anyone thats ever done this for any lenght of time has been right where you are now. If they say they haven't they are a liar

 

[rohnramirez]

:iagree:
Been there, done that. I just did what A4 suggested. The only difference is, i sprayed the bc around 2" bigger than the spot and clear over the entire panel. This is fixable! Good luck.

Just a word of advice, if you don't have a compressor and a spraygun, use a spraycan, the toothpick method isn't very durable and it is harder to work with than a spray can, not to mention it is far more fun.

 

[bluebimmer]

Well I got my self induced bugger job fixed at the local bodyshop. They match the paint perfect and I can't even tell where my wet sanding freenzy started or stopped. What I'm not so sure of is my critical view of a finish that is not like glass. I can see little imperfections such as ripple at certain angles maybe a dip here and there but it's not like it one sheet shrink wrap covering the color. Am I wrong thinking that for 300 bucks my booger would be erased and be replaced with a perfect finish? What they did was fix my error and clear coat the whole roof. I don't know if it's possible for a person to be that precise with a wave of a spray gun to make it as even as a robot would at the factory. For 300 bucks I guess I shouldn't complain because the color was dead on but my concern is the clear coat finish. Should I have them smooth it to a glass smooth finish or am I being anal about it? I don't know because I'm ignorant to the results of a good paint job. Any insite will help me avoid looking like an ass or accepting what I paid for. Like I said it looks good and if you didn't know it was recoated, your average person wouldn't even notice.

Ach, I want to wet sand it and make it mirror like again, I wish I could buy another one and start over. ~

can't finish this now have to go, sorry for the typo's and disorganized sentences. I am not very good at putting things in writing quickly. bye

 

[builthatch]

Well I got my self induced bugger job fixed at the local bodyshop. They match the paint perfect and I can't even tell where my wet sanding freenzy started or stopped. What I'm not so sure of is my critical view of a finish that is not like glass. I can see little imperfections such as ripple at certain angles maybe a dip here and there but it's not like it one sheet shrink wrap covering the color. Am I wrong thinking that for 300 bucks my booger would be erased and be replaced with a perfect finish? What they did was fix my error and clear coat the whole roof. I don't know if it's possible for a person to be that precise with a wave of a spray gun to make it as even as a robot would at the factory. For 300 bucks I guess I shouldn't complain because the color was dead on but my concern is the clear coat finish. Should I have them smooth it to a glass smooth finish or am I being anal about it? I don't know because I'm ignorant to the results of a good paint job. Any insite will help me avoid looking like an ass or accepting what I paid for. Like I said it looks good and if you didn't know it was recoated, your average person wouldn't even notice.

Ach, I want to wet sand it and make it mirror like again, I wish I could buy another one and start over. ~

can't finish this now have to go, sorry for the typo's and disorganized sentences. I am not very good at putting things in writing quickly. bye

probably needs to be wet sanded (ironically enough) and buffed.

 

[ROMEO]

If I'm not mistaken, when ever you do this kind of repairs you need to let it cure and polish to be able to see the finish product, but if you say that it looks very good now, I'm sure is gonna much better later...

Try no to beat your self for this, just learn from it, and don't let it keep you away from trying it again, there is nothing like the pride you will fell when you finish a job on your car, I always like to do all the work on my own cars my self, (suspension, engine mods, lift, etc), like they say "Is not yours unless you put it together..." Anyone can pay someone to get something done, but just think how would you feel once you get the paint to look the way you want it???

Now just take a short break from it, do some reading on this forum to learn a better technique and just take your time next time, have fun, and enjoy your car, that it is very nice BTW...

 

[Perfections]

Here's another way you can fix it, tape off as previous mentioned, then use an airbrush, much better control of the pattern and amount being applied, test on card board to perfect your skill before trying on your car

 

[87rx7chick]

wet sanding is always tricky. the way that automotive manufactures paint the car is very different then painting it in a booth yourself.

when the auto manufacture paints it it uses minimal paint, the paint is literally as thin as hair in some cases. the orange peal is not just clear coat, the orange peal/texture is caused by each and every layer of paint. from sealer to primer to color to clear. and when you sand the bumps you are sanding not just the build up of clear, but all the layers that mounded up to cause that surface.

when i painted my rx7. we painted it with 4 layers of color. between the 3rd layer and 4th layer we did a quick sand of the whole surface of the car to knock down any orange peal that was forming. sprayed a light 4th coat of color. and then 4 thick coats of clear.

the painter knew i would be learning on this car so he gave me alot of clear to work with.

with stock paint jobs you have next to nothing to work with and have to be extremely careful, you cant just say your stock paint isnt flat enough and then go at it with some sand paper.


in most cases you can repair imperfections in the paint. but to wet sand the whole entire car and expect a show quality flat as glass finish, is asking to much of the stock paint, at least in most cases.

honda, actually sprays their clear coat while their color coat is still wet, thus pulling color into the clear coat, so i have read.




if you use clear to repair you may still see it afterwards, but you will at least have protected the edges of the exposed clear and color. preventing any oxidation or pealing of the clear coat. .
good luck!

 

[A4 1.8tqm]

Well I got my self induced bugger job fixed at the local body shop. They match the paint perfect and I can't even tell where my wet sanding frenzy started or stopped.

:awman: I wish you tried to do it yourself...

Am I wrong thinking that for 300 bucks my booger would be erased and be replaced with a perfect finish? What they did was fix my error and clear coat the whole roof. I don't know if it's possible for a person to be that precise with a wave of a spray gun to make it as even as a robot would at the factory.

Yes, you are wrong to think that. Generally a paint shop does not sand and polish the paint to perfection, leaving orange peel behind.

For 300 bucks I guess I shouldn't complain because the color was dead on but my concern is the clear coat finish.

Color? The damage was only to the clear, did they actually repaint they roof or just shoot a layer of clear??

Should I have them smooth it to a glass smooth finish or am I being anal about it? I don't know because I'm ignorant to the results of a good paint job. Any incite will help me avoid looking like an ass or accepting what I paid for. Like I said it looks good and if you didn't know it was re-coated, your average person wouldn't even notice.

Ach, I want to wet sand it and make it mirror like again, I wish I could buy another one and start over. ~

Probably not, the chance of the paint shop workers having the same high standards that we Autogeeks have is low. I guess you could try to have them sand the orange peel (for free), but expect to do some polishing to fix all the rotary holograms that they will (likely) leave behind.


I agree with rx7chick, factory paint is very thin and after market is much thicker (generally). If you do want to wet/damp sand it is a good time to do it, the fresh paint is very workable making for easier sanding mark removal. Just don't wax/seal for 30-60 days from when it was painted. It's a good idea to stop by a Professional Detailer or Paint Shop and ask if they can take a couple paint thickness readings for you. If you compare the new paint vs factory you should find it to be ~3x thicker.

From there damp sanding with your DA is totally feasible, get a 3M Hookit 6 Inch Soft Interface Pad with 3M Trizact 6 inch P1500 sanding discs and 3M Trizact 6 Inch Foam Discs P3000. I know, the discs are expensive, you may be able to find them sold individually at an auto body supply shop. The combination of the 3 items I linked with a DA polisher will make sanding away orange peel a pleasure.

Orange Peel/No Orange Peel

Orange Peel half removed/fully removed. You can see all the "low points"
of the orange peel texture have not even been touched by the sand paper,
the "low point" is the level the rest of the paint needs to get sanded down to

Sanded with Trizact P1500 grit, I skipped the 3000 and compounded from here.

Sun shot after finishing with 3M Ultrafina

My write up from the above process:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-hand-vs-pnuematic-palm-sander-long-post.html

A couple articles from Mike:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...after-dampsanding-orange-peel.html#post363818

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...sanding-marks-griot-s-rop-wolfgang-twins.html (I really like this one :xyxthumbs:.)


Good luck! :cheers:

 

[87rx7chick]

GREAT POST!!! thats how my paint looked before/after i sanded it.


a great tool to use is a 3m squeegee. it looks like a big thin square of rubber. o'riely's carries it and most paint supply places should carry it too. they are cheep.

using one makes quick work since you can quickly wipe away water to reveal a dry surface and find your highs and lows as shown above.

 

[A4 1.8tqm]

Thanks!

Great post from you as well! I use my California Jelly Blade (I have the original shaped one) for the exact purpose. A spray bottle of clean water conditioned w/ DP RWG and the Water Blade is perfect for quickly checking your sanding results. :dblthumb2:

 

[sohail99]

Hmmm... I'm kinda in a similar situation as the OP!

I had gotten a panel repainted by a body shop and the orange peel was horrendous!!

So I wetsanded and removed almost all of it. But still I felt that the factory paint on the adjacent panel had a way better Distinction Of Image(This was after I had compounded and finished the panel with M105, M205 and Po85rd)

So, I figured that it needs just a little more sanding with a fine paper.

So I got hold of a 4000grit sheet and started to work on a test panel to find out whether I could refine the DOI further or not.

During my second pass over the test panel I discovered the color of base coat on the sandpaper.

I stopped immediately and kinda cursed my pursuit for DOI which ruined the clear!

Now I have a few spray cans of automotive acrylic laquer. Can I repair the defects myself?

There arent readily visible as I kinda masked them with a glaze and sealant. But the DOI bug has bit me hard and I really need it to match the DOI of the factory paint.

Can I perform self-repair and continue pursuing the perfect DOI or just repair and leave it like that?

P.S. I am aiming for a show car finish!

 

[arenared]

I'm sure others more knowledgeable can comment, but be careful with prep and material compatibility. Quite a number of years ago, I tried this method on clearcoat failures, and they worked, but only temporarily. After a few years, the paint crazed.

 

[yakky]

As thin as modern paint finishes are, anyone that reaches for sand paper (or even a heavy compound and heavy cutting pad) without using an electronic paint thickness gauge is foolish.