Help in removing severe paint contamination

[RPM_BR]

Friends from AGO
A customer came to me asking if I would be able to remove a paint contamination. When I looked at it, it was severe. The customer let the contaminants sitting for six months, it is strongly adhered to the CC. Also, the car is black, and it is been awfully hot where I live, so the contaminant 'baked' into the clearcoat. Besides the usual, clay bar after washing, is there a way of softening up the spray paint? Mineral spirit didn't seem to do any good. I was thinking about Iron-X paste as well. Any thoughts, ideas?
Thanks a lot in advance. RPM.

 

[Ebg18t]

Proper wet sanding?

 

[lawrenceSA]

Friends from AGO
A customer came to me asking if I would be able to remove a paint contamination. When I looked at it, it was severe. The customer let the contaminants sitting for six months, it is strongly adhered to the CC. Also, the car is black, and it is been awfully hot where I live, so the contaminant 'baked' into the clearcoat. Besides the usual, clay bar after washing, is there a way of softening up the spray paint? Mineral spirit didn't seem to do any good. I was thinking about Iron-X paste as well. Any thoughts, ideas?
Thanks a lot in advance. RPM.

I don't see an iron remover being of any assistance as they are designed to target and dissolve ferrous compounds (like brake dust) and not the paint itself.

Proper wet sanding?

With all due respect that is the LAST thing I would suggest. Always use the least aggressive method to get the job done.

Over and above claying - perhaps stepping up to a medium (or more) bar will help speed up the process - I don't have any other ideas, but I am sure plenty others will chime in with solid advice:dblthumb2:

 

[Ebg18t]

With all due respect that is the LAST thing I would suggest. Always use the least aggressive method to get the job done.

Over and above claying - perhaps stepping up to a medium (or more) bar will help speed up the process - I don't have any other ideas, but I am sure plenty others will chime in with solid advice:dblthumb2:

I 100% agree, but if it has been there for 6+ months (being baked on) I have a bad feeling clay and heavy compounding might not be enough.

I went thru this about 2 years ago on a VW Golf w/ Black paint. I tried several clays, multiple compounds and was able to get some of it. I consulted a freind who ran a MB body shop and his only remaining thought was mild wet sanding. He wetsanded it for me since I didn't feel comfortable doing it. I polished it out after. Looked really good. But the nessisarily step needed was beyond my skill set. I think it is important for us to know our limits.

 

[HateSwirls]

A couple of years ago I ran into a similar problem.
I was working on a Honda Civic, white, hadn't been washed for three years, it was so bad, claying didn't do anything to it.
As I was claying I made sure to keep the car loaded with Dawn soap with a little APC to help soften the crap but still, nothing.
What I did was I wet sanded the entire car using 3k Unigrit, that removed it, the left over damage wasn't too bad.

I then compounded the car with m105 followed by m205.
It was the only way, very close to needing a new paint job.
Even though the paint was crap it looked amazing once I was done.

The sanding was done by hand but still was complete quickly.
Sometimes claying just won't help, as on the car I did.

The sanding was my only choice I had left.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Friends from AGO

A customer came to me asking if I would be able to remove a paint contamination.

Nanoskin

Wash Mitt, Towel or Pad on a PC or Flex 3401


Just be sure to tell the customer that after removing the overspray paint the paint will need at least one dedicated polishing step.


The overspray on this streetrod was SO BAD that the entire truck took on a yellow ghosting appearance before we removed the overspray paint.

We removed the overspray using Nanoskin products.




Paint Overspray Ghosting


How to remove paint overspray
Paint overspray is a common problem on cars because often times paint being sprayed becomes airborne outside of where it's being sprayed and then drifts in the wind till it lands on your car.


Ghosting means there's an almost invisible appearance of something on the paint.


The truck below has yellow overspray all over it including the paint, the glass, the wood stakes on the side of the bed, the wood floor inside the bed even the wheels and tires.

We removed the overspray and restored a true show car finish on this truck and you can find out how by clicking the two links below...



1949 Chevy 5-Window Pickup Extreme Makeover - Pictures & Videos


How to remove overspray paint using the Cyclo Polisher



Paint Overspray Ghosting
Here's the before pictures, if you look carefully you can see YELLOW GHOSTING outlining all the perimeters of the green body panels...


Before

After

Before

After

This streetrod truck had EXTREME overspray and that's why you can see the ghosting of the yellow on the green.

Hopefully you'll never come across a car with this much paint overspray.


Where does overspray come from?
The most common place to get overspray paint is at a body shop while you're car is there being painted. It can happen in the paint booth or outside of the paint booth.


Here's a tip...
Anytime you have your car painted, whether it's a complete paint job or just a respray after a fender bender, do the Baggie Test while the car is at the paint shop.

If if overspray paint is discovered, then have the shop manager or shop owner do the Baggie Test.


I wouldn't let the body shop remove the overspray because chances are they'll do more damage in the way of swirls and scratches, even holograms via their method of overspray removal.

But do bring their workmanship or lack thereof to their attention and then remove the overspray yourself.


REMEMBER
Overspray paint will not only be on the "paint" but on the glass, your trim, your tires and wheels, any area of the car that is open to the air can have overspray paint.



:dblthumb2:

 

[RPM_BR]

Thanks a lot for all the input, guys. AGO, simply the best place for a detailer to be.
If I get the guts to do it, I will wet sand with trizact 5000, after all the wash mitt effort had been done. Since I'm a novice to wetsand, I only use the Mr Phillips 'small piece of sanding paper thats fits the tip of a finger' technique, I'm afraid of going to 3000 to start with it.
In case of wet sanding with a 5000 trizact, would a Flex PE or the 3401 be most suited for it?
Thanks again! RPM

 

[HateSwirls]

Thanks a lot for all the input, guys. AGO, simply the best place for a detailer to be.

If I get the guts to do it, I will wet sand with trizact 5000, after all the wash mitt effort had been done. Since I'm a novice to wetsand, I only use the Mr Phillips 'small piece of sanding paper thats fits the tip of a finger' technique, I'm afraid of going to 3000 to start with it.

In case of wet sanding with a 5000 trizact, would a Flex PE or the 3401 be most suited for it?

Thanks again! RPM

Use a DA to wet sand.

Much less forgiving.

I use my PC when wet sanding, just feels right.
Check out 3M's sanding disk, they work very well and are hook and loop.

God Luck

 

[RPM_BR]

Use a DA to wet sand.

Much less forgiving.

I use my PC when wet sanding, just feels right.
Check out 3M's sanding disk, they work very well and are hook and loop.

God Luck

I got the 3M's, and is the speed do you usually use in a PC?

 

[HateSwirls]

I got the 3M's, and is the speed do you usually use in a PC?

Most of the time I use speed 3.
Light pressure so no need for higher speed.

I make a couple of passes then inspectmy work.
Little at a time works best.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks a lot for all the input, guys. AGO, simply the best place for a detailer to be.

Please be sure to share our forum with all your car buddies...

If I get the guts to do it, I will wet sand with trizact 5000, after all the wash mitt effort had been done. Since I'm a novice to wetsand, I only use the Mr Phillips 'small piece of sanding paper thats fits the tip of a finger' technique,

That would be this article for those that have not read it of for all the Lurkers that will read this into the future.

RIDS and Feathersanding - A Highly Specialized Technique by Mike Phillips

In case of wet sanding with a 5000 trizact, would a Flex PE or the 3401 be most suited for it?

Thanks again! RPM

If you use a rotary buffer, i.e. the Flex PE14 to try to sand it would not be called sanding it would be called GRINDING.

My advice is don't try to sand or grind using a Flex PE14 you'll be going to body shops asking for a quote for a re-paint.


I have an article on the topic of wetsanding or machine dampsanding with the Flex 3401 with some really great pictures to back up what I say in the article and you can read that here.


Can the Flex 3401 be used to wetsand?

I got the 3M's, and is the speed do you usually use in a PC?

I answered this question and taught the technique for machine sanding at last week's January 2015 Detailing Boot Camp. Just to note people learn more in a few days than they would in a lifetime of reading any forum. I also taught this at Mobile Tech Expo as one of my 9 classes this year.


When machine damp sanding with the Porter Cable first you want to get the Meguiar's 6" Sanding Backing Plate part number S6PB so you'll have a backing plate the correct diameter to provide support over the entire face of the sanding disc. It also has a tapered, flexible edge for working around curves and contours.

Here's a picture...



Meguiar's Sanding Backing Plate #S6BP 6 inch
Back side

Working face side

NEXT you'll want to get a Meguiar's 6" Foam Interface pads to smooth out the sanding action and enable the sanding disc to conform to curved panels. It also REDUCES the aggressiveness of any given grit level of sanding disc. That means #5000 will be more like #5500 i.e. less aggressive than #5000 This helps you to be UBER SAFE.

Here's a couple pictures.... the letter "M" stands for Mike



Meguiar's Foam Interface Pad #S6FI 6 inch
Back side

Working face side

Now I'm being VERY SPECIFIC here as words are important....


When using the PORTER CABLE 7424XP you're going to want to put the speed setting on the 4.5 to 5 speed setting and also MARK YOUR BACKING PLATE like I show in this article....


Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation

Or just use the writing on the back of the Meguiar's backing plate as a VISUAL INDICATOR of rotation.

The BIG PICTURE is that you want and need the sanding disc and thus the backing plate ROTATING and OSCILLATING not JUST VIBRATING against the paint.

If you use to low a speed setting that's what will happen. I find anything less than 4.5 on the PC to be ineffective.

Same general speed recommendation goes for the Meguiar's G110v2 but if you're using the Griot's Garage than you'll be on the 1-2 speed setting.

The KEY is to somehow mark the backing plate or watch the words on the backing plate so you know for sure the backing plate is rotating and oscillating and not just jiggling or vibrating against the paint.


Then... READ not scan but READ this article so you know everything you'll need to successfully machine sand paint.


Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips


The actually how-to stuff starts in post #5 but TONS of in-depth information that you cannot find on any other forum or in any video anywhere is in the above article.

It took a little time to write plus take the pictures and notice they have not disappeared over the last 5 years because they are not hosted on Photobucket.


Hope that helps....


:dblthumb2:

 

[tuscarora dave]

Regular old spray paint (from a rattle can) typically comes off very quickly with a few wipes using lacquer thinner. Factory baked clearcoat or fully cured after market automotive clear coat is very resistant to the effects of lacquer thinner. The use of a rag dampened with lacquer thinner to remove spray paint from fully cured automotive clear is a much less aggressive method than wetsanding, and possibly a very quick solution.

It just makes very little sense to me to jump right into wet sanding just to remove a little spray paint.

Of course this is coming from the viewpoint of a production oriented guy.

To each his own I suppose.

 

[Tato]

Nice answers you got,

I'm +1 to not jump directly into wetsanding, just remember although you may get rid of overspray you'll now face another issue that would be the sanding marks.

This will lead you to a much more 'sophisticated' polishing afterwards, risking not being able to fully remove sanding marks. With your initial descriptions, this paint would be one I'd not wetsand.

Not saying you can't do it, but that's not my process.

Nanoskin will remove overspray / contamination. Few contaminants, it'll remove. If there are many, it'll also remove, don't be scared by the looks. Some things can look ugly but workout easy, like a charm.

My suggestion here would be nanoskin / clay towel using running water as lube.

Work your Menzerna 3n1 afterwards and call it a day,

And I tell it literally, 'A DAY', I know your work pace and you can achieve great results on this one from morning through end of afternoon. You are -the man-!

Good luck.

Kind Regards.

 

[RPM_BR]

Dear Mike: thanks a lot for your answers, and warning me about the foolish use of a PE14 for trying to wet sand, and instead of it, grinding the paint. This is why I always come here first before any attempt of doing something different. A humble approach to new tasks, this is what I try in life. I also read your previous posts and links and found that I have in my stock a 'clay bar pad' to be used with a DA, similar to the one you used I that severely contaminated truck. I will try that first for sure, after the clay bar towell/mitt.
Thanks Dave for the thinner tip, I will also keep this in mind before jumping to wet sand.
And thanks professor Tato for the input, but I'm only a friend of the man, you are the man! And yes, let's try 3 in1 on that, why not? With the new 'Tato Technique' perhaps?
Hyb white or orange on a 3401, right?
If time allows me to do so, since I have severe time constraints and I work alone, I will try to document my work and post it here. The car is supposed to come next monday morning. But I have a car tomorrow, another monday and another friday. It will be a busy week thanks God. RPM

 

[PreludeVTEC01]

Some really great information in here!