Help me with PC & Black Saleen !!

[Saleen281]

Hey everyone- just recieved my PC buffer and pads. I am having trouble with my new black Saleen.

First off, I want to point out I am a custom painter by trade- I am used to cutting, buffing and working with paint. I can do it with my eyes closed. HOWEVER, this new PC has me a little baffled.

My Saleen has the usual "dealer provided" scratches- basic scratches from washing, people touching it, etc. I have gotten most of the bad ones out with a rotary buffer (DeWalt) and assorted pads and 3m compounds.

Most of the others are the "spider" scratches you get from careless detail guys.

I bought Pinnacle XMT1, Pinnacle Adv. Finishing Polish, white pad, blue pad and black pad. I figured the PC would let me go over the whole car, get out the spider scratches, fine scratches, etc.

Simply put, the scratches aren't coming out. I have tried about every combo with the PC, and no luck. I've changed the speed, just about everything.

However, I can put a pad on the rotary, put some 3M Perfect-it III on it, and get them out in less than 20 seconds, at 1000 rpms. Once that is done, I can take the PC and put a white pad with XMT1 on it, and it really pops. Thats OK, I guess, but I bought the PC to do EVERYTHING.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[ryandamartini]

Might need an orange pad with the xmt1. The black and blue pads are more from waxes if anything.

I would lay some xmt2 down with the orange pad. SHould leave you a LSP ready finish. Also make sure you are laying down the polishes right with the PC, it is a lil different than a rotary. To see a great example of how to put down XMT2, look at the video on this page:
http://autogeek.net/xmt.html

-Ryan

 

[Totoland Mach]

Hey everyone- just recieved my PC buffer and pads. I am having trouble with my new black Saleen.

First off, I want to point out I am a custom painter by trade- I am used to cutting, buffing and working with paint. I can do it with my eyes closed. HOWEVER, this new PC has me a little baffled.

My Saleen has the usual "dealer provided" scratches- basic scratches from washing, people touching it, etc. I have gotten most of the bad ones out with a rotary buffer (DeWalt) and assorted pads and 3m compounds.

Most of the others are the "spider" scratches you get from careless detail guys.

I bought Pinnacle XMT1, Pinnacle Adv. Finishing Polish, white pad, blue pad and black pad. I figured the PC would let me go over the whole car, get out the spider scratches, fine scratches, etc.

Simply put, the scratches aren't coming out. I have tried about every combo with the PC, and no luck. I've changed the speed, just about everything.

However, I can put a pad on the rotary, put some 3M Perfect-it III on it, and get them out in less than 20 seconds, at 1000 rpms. Once that is done, I can take the PC and put a white pad with XMT1 on it, and it really pops. Thats OK, I guess, but I bought the PC to do EVERYTHING.

What am I doing wrong?

Well, I'm just learning to do cutting, compounding, and polishing, so I'll trade ya knowledge

Actually the 3M + rotary is the fastest way to get the scratches out. Before I started using a rotary (I detail used BMW's on the weekend), I would use a PC for everything. The trick to the PC is pad + product combo. I usually start with a polish pad + XMT 2 or 3 or Meguiar's #83. If the scratches aren't too deep, this combo will work fine. Then, step up to a finish pad and whatever wax you are using.

You actually have the knowledge and the best combo: rotary + 3M for scratch removal and PC + other products to polish the finish.

I am a little intimidated to do cutting on 2-3 year old Bimmers, but the owner has helped me along pretty well. My problem is how far to take the 3000 grit pad on a finish. I use a Snap-On air sander and it is very nice and light weight.

Holler if I can help you. I've posted pics in my gallery of some examples.

Totoland Mach

 

[Kelso]

pad and product is the key but also make sure you work it in on each section for about 5 minutes, not 20 seconds like the rotary

 

[ScottB]

PC's do not cut deep (they spin off axis) and transfer very little heat. As such you are using it to try and do something your experience has shown can be done quickly with a rotary. So use your experience and the rotary, and use the PC only as needed to final polish.

http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/video/

 

[ltoman]

pc

Yikes.
I assumed if I watched the video, did it the way they showed with the stuff (pc, pinnacle pads and product) they showed, it would come fine. If I do that, will it be ok? My stuff is on its way but I am scared to ruin my vette.... Like with the pc you do not press hard, right? Any tips? Also, I am not as strong as man - obviously - will this factor in?Feed back please

 

[Surfer]

Yikes.
I assumed if I watched the video, did it the way they showed with the stuff (pc, pinnacle pads and product) they showed, it would come fine. If I do that, will it be ok? My stuff is on its way but I am scared to ruin my vette.... Like with the pc you do not press hard, right? Any tips? Also, I am not as strong as man - obviously - will this factor in?Feed back please

PC is gonna need a firm amount of pressure, cutting pad, and good polish/compound to do any work on a car with hard clear ala Vette, Audi, Benz etc. Then follow up with a finishing pad and polish and light pressure (let the weight of the machine). Move the PC about an inch or so per second. I also run my PC at speeds 5-6 with Optimum Compound and Polish, but I have the Edge pads, backing plate pads won't take that speed/heat for long.

 

[ltoman]

So it seems unlikely I will damage the car; rather at worst, I won't remove the swirls properly - yes? I watched the video with pinnacle products so I know which pads and which compounds and what order. I am just afraid I will ruin my car. How will I know the polishes are broken down - just by giving it 5 minutes per section?
Thank you!

 

[XterraOverload]

if your going to use the pc start with some XMT2 Thats what I had to do on my black X to get the spiders out. Even if they were light spiders!!

 

[Saleen281]

Well, I'm just learning to do cutting, compounding, and polishing, so I'll trade ya knowledge

Actually the 3M + rotary is the fastest way to get the scratches out. Before I started using a rotary (I detail used BMW's on the weekend), I would use a PC for everything. The trick to the PC is pad + product combo. I usually start with a polish pad + XMT 2 or 3 or Meguiar's #83. If the scratches aren't too deep, this combo will work fine. Then, step up to a finish pad and whatever wax you are using.

You actually have the knowledge and the best combo: rotary + 3M for scratch removal and PC + other products to polish the finish.

I am a little intimidated to do cutting on 2-3 year old Bimmers, but the owner has helped me along pretty well. My problem is how far to take the 3000 grit pad on a finish. I use a Snap-On air sander and it is very nice and light weight.

Holler if I can help you. I've posted pics in my gallery of some examples.

Totoland Mach

Well- I wouldn't worry too much over using 3000 grit. I would try and find out what "orbit" your sander has. I use Dynabrade exclusively, and I have one that has a 3/32 orbit (for 3000 grit) and another that has 3/16 orbit (for 1500 film finishing) and another that uses 3/8 orbit (for 800 film finishing). The smaller the orbit, the less material and smoother "texture" you get.

I use 3000 grit to remove 1500 grit scratches before jumping to a foam pad and compound. The 3000 grit basically nullifys the need to use a wool pad and aggressive compound. 3000 grit is also good for removing acid rain, bird stains, blemishes, etc without using a wool pad and also minimizes the chance of burning thru the paint when trying to get out a defect.

Any questions you have, just ask. I'll be glad to help ya any way I can.

Heres one I just finished:

 

[Waxmax]

With a PC, IMO the key to eliminating or significantly reducing swirls and light scratches (the ones you cannot feel with your finger nail) is to take your time and use multiple passes and applications, working at spped 5-6 and don't be afraid of applying some pressure. It can be frustrating and of course a rotary will be faster, but a PC is pretty much fool proof as far as CC/ paint damage.

Based on Surfer's and others' results, I am now using Optimum Compound quite a bit with an orange LC pad and I think it works alittle better than XMT3...although I would recommend either product. Once you've used one of these products (again multiple passes and applications as necessary), use a finishing polish like OP with a white LC pad. It can be time consuming for stubborn swirls.

 

[ryandamartini]

Yikes.
I assumed if I watched the video, did it the way they showed with the stuff (pc, pinnacle pads and product) they showed, it would come fine. If I do that, will it be ok? My stuff is on its way but I am scared to ruin my vette.... Like with the pc you do not press hard, right? Any tips? Also, I am not as strong as man - obviously - will this factor in?Feed back please

Trust me that vette clearcoat will hurt you before you hurt it! Apply 10-15 lbs of pressure on the pc. Use a bathroom scale to figure out what that feels like

 

[Surfer]

Use a bathroom scale to figure out what that feels like

That's actually pretty smart, I never thought of that but I always had a feel for how much pressure I was putting down. For others, that could really help when some people say apply about 5 or 6lbs pressure, 15 lbs pressure etc.

 

[Waxmax]

On a vette or other hard clear, try Menzerna 106 (or BF SRC polish). As far as pressure on the PC to remove stubborn swirls, IMO 20 lbs is about right....sometimes on a real stubborn area, I'll lean into to it even more ...just short of bogging down the PC and go pretty slow. Of course it takes some practice to see what works for you....start easy and least aggressive and go from there.

 

[ltoman]

That is a great idea about testing it on a scale - I will do that. I am still waiting for it to arrive. I have the orange Lake Country pads and XMT one and two. I did not buy three, as the vette was only bought in August. Do you think I need to get the XMT3 already? I bought the pinnacle line and the Lake Country pads for everything, right up to the Souverang.

I am nost sure though - with the Souverang - is it best to do by hand or using the pc? I think I am going to do a test run on our 98 Dodge Caravan before I go near the vette, bullet proof or not.
The vette has been clayed with Pinnacle with the light bar (blue)

...I hope I don't spend a weekend and $400 on this and it turns out mediocre.... ?????? Thoughts? Feed back please

 

[Saleen281]

That is a great idea about testing it on a scale - I will do that. I am still waiting for it to arrive. I have the orange Lake Country pads and XMT one and two. I did not buy three, as the vette was only bought in August. Do you think I need to get the XMT3 already? I bought the pinnacle line and the Lake Country pads for everything, right up to the Souverang.

I am nost sure though - with the Souverang - is it best to do by hand or using the pc? I think I am going to do a test run on our 98 Dodge Caravan before I go near the vette, bullet proof or not.
The vette has been clayed with Pinnacle with the light bar (blue)

...I hope I don't spend a weekend and $400 on this and it turns out mediocre.... ?????? Thoughts? Feed back please

I think you are worrying too much. I used every pad I had, and every compound I had, and didn't faze any scratches. The PC doesn't have enough power, or generate enough heat to do any damage. The worst case is you may put some little swirls in the paint. But, a finer abrasive will take those out. Simple as that.

If your car is new, I'd start out with XMT 2, or even start with XMT 1 and do a section of hood under flourescent lights. If the haze or marks are gone, keep going. If not, move up to a more aggressive compound to smooth it, then back over again with finer compound to remove the leftover marks from the more abrasive compound.

You aren't gonna hurt the paint.

 

[Kelso]

it doesnt generate any heat really.... thats the point of a DA

are you still not able to remove the scratches? which pads and products did you use and for how long did you work it in?

 

[ltoman]

I think you are worrying too much. I used every pad I had, and every compound I had, and didn't faze any scratches. The PC doesn't have enough power, or generate enough heat to do any damage. The worst case is you may put some little swirls in the paint. But, a finer abrasive will take those out. Simple as that.

If your car is new, I'd start out with XMT 2, or even start with XMT 1 and do a section of hood under flourescent lights. If the haze or marks are gone, keep going. If not, move up to a more aggressive compound to smooth it, then back over again with finer compound to remove the leftover marks from the more abrasive compound.

You aren't gonna hurt the paint.

Would XMT3 qualify as a finer abrasive? By finer you mean stronger, correct? Yes, my corvette is very new - 3 months old. . . and the spider webbing/swirls are light, but irritate the crap out of me!! I ordered a pc. Do you think that was a good choice?

 

[Kelso]

ordering PC is a greta choice. xmt 3 is a MORE abrasive polish, xmt 1 is a finer one or less abrasive

 

[Saleen281]

Would XMT3 qualify as a finer abrasive? By finer you mean stronger, correct? Yes, my corvette is very new - 3 months old. . . and the spider webbing/swirls are light, but irritate the crap out of me!! I ordered a pc. Do you think that was a good choice?

Think its a great choice. Go with the XMT 1 and see what you get. I bet it takes out the little hairline scratches to your satifaction.