High GSM Towels Scratch Paint?

Joe@NextLevelDetail

Joe@NextLevelDetail

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Ok so i watched a video by larry kosilla aka ammonyc here is the video

https://youtu.be/X9W-mMJicSM

In the video he says the ideal "sweet spot" for removing polish/wax is 300-350 gsm and the higher gsm counts 400+ drag on the paint and arent good at picking up the polish if you will. Saying the longer piles drag against the paint witch is not. good and can potentially lead to scratching especially when your working with abrasives

So i said that maybe a little to over kill how could a higher gsm scratch or not pick up polish good ?

A few weeks ago i was detailing a black BWM moderate swirls used fg400 and sf4000 and got 90% correction.

At the end of the detail i was using my gold cobra with the black silk edge the "fluffy" side i whiped the panel and i seen these very super fine scratches........... i said ok its smudged polish i sprayed some ipa whiped it down with the same towel it left finer scratches..... i said ok

This towel was contaminated for sure.

I got out the polisher polished it out with sf4000 brought it out in the sun got another towel whiped the trunk....., the same straight line freddy kruger scratches i inspected the towel nothing i rubbed the towel to feel anything nothing soft to the touch.

I said maybe i did a bad batch of laundry while washing i then moved on to my red 320 gsm towels with no more issues.


Today i did a 750li twin turbo white.
I opened brand new pack of the cobras cause i was running low on my red 320gsm.

I whiped off sf4000 and i seen while i was whiping it install a very fine scratch i couldnt believe my eyes i said that has to be a smudge once again got ipa it wasnt....


So then what larry said in the video right away rang a bell i am done using high gsm towels expect for spray waxes maybe i have to do some more testing.

Again im a little "weirded" out by this i like the towel and still am in dis believe that this happened on 2 separate occasions i found that using the short pile side did not streak scratch nothing.

Anybody else have this experience ?

I 100% agree with larry that a 300-350 gsm towel will remove all the polish streak and scratch free over a high gsm high pile towel.

I just ordered the 16x16 eagle edgeless towel from the rag company i seen its 420 gsm does this towel remove polish/wax good ? Does it streak/scratch ?
 
Used eagle edgless to remove polish (fg400, sf4000) didnt have any problems
 
Excuse my reluctance but are you saying the thicker plusher softer towels are leaving scratches this makes no sense to me, I thought the thicker the better, safer hmmm?
 
300~350gsm towel works great for polish and wax remover.
Higher gsm or edgeless towel I keep for QD or final wipe ;)
 
NextLevelDtail said:
A few weeks ago i was detailing a black BWM moderate swirls used fg400 and sf4000 and got 90% correction.

Today i did a 750li twin turbo white.
I opened brand new pack of the cobras cause i was running low on my red 320gsm.
Click to expand...

Is it possible you are conflating a couple of different things together here?

If that "black BMW" was jet black, from what I understand that paint mars if you look at it the wrong way.

And if you were using new towels that hadn't been washed on the white car, it's certainly possible that there was some contamination in the towel that caused the problem you had.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Is it possible you are conflating a couple of different things together here?

And if you were using new towels that hadn't been washed on the white car, it's certainly possible that there was some contamination in the towel that caused the problem you had.
Click to expand...

I agree. Were the towels washed ??? I have added preinspection of both sides also, since I found a metal like piece (looked like size of hair) embedded in surface.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Is it possible you are conflating a couple of different things together here?

If that "black BMW" was jet black, from what I understand that paint mars if you look at it the wrong way.

And if you were using new towels that hadn't been washed on the white car, it's certainly possible that there was some contamination in the towel that caused the problem you had.
Click to expand...

I didnt have issues with the short nap side. When i turned it around on the long nap side for the last buff thats when i seen it.
 
Swiss said:
Used eagle edgless to remove polish (fg400, sf4000) didnt have any problems
Click to expand...

NextLevelDtail said:
How do you like the towel does it hold up durability wise does it lint ?
Is it good for wipe polish off
Click to expand...

I had about 20 Eagle Edgeless towels and ordered 20 more this weekend. These things are awesome, and they hold up really well for me. Although, I take pretty good care of my towels (wash the paint towels separate from the wheels towels... use special towel detergent... air dry).
 
MI Mike said:
I agree. Were the towels washed ??? I have added preinspection of both sides also, since I found a metal like piece (looked like size of hair) embedded in surface.
Click to expand...

:dblthumb2: I always lay my towels out and rub my hand over them to feel anything. There is a name for this but my senior brain can not remember.
 
NextLevelDtail said:
Ok so i watched a video by larry kosilla aka ammonyc here is the video

https://youtu.be/X9W-mMJicSM

In the video he says the ideal "sweet spot" for removing polish/wax is 300-350 gsm and the higher gsm counts 400+ drag on the paint and arent good at picking up the polish if you will. Saying the longer piles drag against the paint witch is not. good and can potentially lead to scratching especially when your working with abrasives
Click to expand...

I just watched the video and never heard him say anything about this?:dunno:

What he does say (correctly or incorrectly) is that (and I am paraphrasing here) there is a point where the length of the fibre is so long that it is not stiff enough to effectively do the 'scrubbing' action or 'picking up' of the wax or polish residue off the paint. Not that the longer fibres will drag across the paint causing scratches.
 
NextLevelDtail said:
Ok so i watched a video by larry kosilla aka ammonyc here is the video

https://youtu.be/X9W-mMJicSM

In the video he says the ideal "sweet spot" for removing polish/wax is 300-350 gsm and the higher gsm counts 400+ drag on the paint and arent good at picking up the polish if you will. Saying the longer piles drag against the paint witch is not. good and can potentially lead to scratching especially when your working with abrasives

So i said that maybe a little to over kill how could a higher gsm scratch or not pick up polish good ?

A few weeks ago i was detailing a black BWM moderate swirls used fg400 and sf4000 and got 90% correction.

At the end of the detail i was using my gold cobra with the black silk edge the "fluffy" side i whiped the panel and i seen these very super fine scratches........... i said ok its smudged polish i sprayed some ipa whiped it down with the same towel it left finer scratches..... i said ok

This towel was contaminated for sure.

I got out the polisher polished it out with sf4000 brought it out in the sun got another towel whiped the trunk....., the same straight line freddy kruger scratches i inspected the towel nothing i rubbed the towel to feel anything nothing soft to the touch.

I said maybe i did a bad batch of laundry while washing i then moved on to my red 320 gsm towels with no more issues.


Today i did a 750li twin turbo white.
I opened brand new pack of the cobras cause i was running low on my red 320gsm.

I whiped off sf4000 and i seen while i was whiping it install a very fine scratch i couldnt believe my eyes i said that has to be a smudge once again got ipa it wasnt....


So then what larry said in the video right away rang a bell i am done using high gsm towels expect for spray waxes maybe i have to do some more testing.

Again im a little "weirded" out by this i like the towel and still am in dis believe that this happened on 2 separate occasions i found that using the short pile side did not streak scratch nothing.

Anybody else have this experience ?

I 100% agree with larry that a 300-350 gsm towel will remove all the polish streak and scratch free over a high gsm high pile towel.

I just ordered the 16x16 eagle edgeless towel from the rag company i seen its 420 gsm does this towel remove polish/wax good ? Does it streak/scratch ?
Click to expand...


Watch out say TRC I mention them with no link and the post got deleted :nomore:
 
lawrenceSA said:
I just watched the video and never heard him say anything about this?:dunno:

What he does say (correctly or incorrectly) is that (and I am paraphrasing here) there is a point where the length of the fibre is so long that it is not stiff enough to effectively do the 'scrubbing' action or 'picking up' of the wax or polish residue off the paint. Not that the longer fibres will drag across the paint causing scratches.
Click to expand...

Correct i didn't quote properly.

What i meant was can that lead to potential scratches because of the dragging aspect and picking up abrasive .

I never thought of the dragging aspect on the paint before that was kind of my view.

Am i saying every high gsm towel scratches no not at all.

All i was asking was if anybody else had this happened to them cause it happened to me on 2 BMWs
And one black escalade

I don't know if my towels are contaminated but i do wash my paint towels with my paint towels

And dont use high heat so i dont know it is quite odd
 
lawrenceSA said:
I just watched the video and never heard him say anything about this?:dunno:

What he does say (correctly or incorrectly) is that (and I am paraphrasing here) there is a point where the length of the fibre is so long that it is not stiff enough to effectively do the 'scrubbing' action or 'picking up' of the wax or polish residue off the paint. Not that the longer fibres will drag across the paint causing scratches.
Click to expand...

Whats also odd is that only the fluffy side of the cobra did this the short nap side did fine but after i wanted to buff it thats when i seen the marring.

Also my 320 gsm towels i wash them in the same load.

So it is weird
 
I always have used the short nap side for removal of compound, polish, or wax. I actually got some 350 GSM towels from MFT that are short nap on both sides and they were okay (the white are noticeably softer than the blue). If I wasn't in school again and was still detailing for money a lot, I would've gone and ordered some of the Microfiber Madness polishing cloths (Yellow Fellow's I think they're called). If I'm detailing for money, I'd rather towels I just use when wiping the many different abrasive liquids I used almost daily and have other job specific towels.

When I'm using the stuff I have at home, then I basically only use my 360, 530, and 470 Korean towels for an array of purposes because I don't have any real purpose of a polish removal towel for my own personal collection since I don't polish as frequently as I would at work.

Now, specifically to your post, I had a similar issue on Mercedes Ceramiclear paints which are very hard, and that was definitely because the towels were contaminated. My boss hadn't been washing the towels very well and I had to run home and use some of my personal towels (same model of towel - MFT 360's) and they weren't causing any issues. Another thing that is helpful is to use either D114 at a WW dilution (for lubrication not as a panel wipe) or D114 at a panel wipe dilution or CarPro Eraser which I liked the best. They all will provide lubrication and help prevent marring as well.
 
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