Holograms + 7424XP why ? help :(

Ri0uXx

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Hi, I realised a litle polish on my car and he has already been detailed in the pass.

I used a 7424XP and Micro polish P087MC ( menzerna ) with a white pad Lake Country 6.5" CCS pads

and now,

the car is FULL of holograms

why ?

Maybe my technique is bad ? i put maybe to much " pressure " on the machine ?

:S

help me please:(
 
The car might have had a glaze on it from the last detailer and while polishing you removed the glaze. Did you clay the surface? and make sure to clean your pad.
 
I clayed the car, and the car did not get " glazed " in the past :(

A dirty " pad " can be the reason ?

and do you think with a grey pad a correction would be possible ? ( but clean )
 
Could you post up some pictures? Its pretty tough to hologram with a DA so the logical thought it that it had them before and you cleaned off the rest of the problems and now you can see the holograms. This may not be the case in your situation but its the one we see the most on here.

What kind of experience do you have with your XP? have you used it before and not had any issues? Have you read and watched the "How to use the XP DA" here in the forums?
 
Hi, I realised a litle polish on my car and he has already been detailed in the pass.

I used a 7424XP and Micro polish P087MC ( menzerna ) with a white pad Lake Country 6.5" CCS pads

and now,

the car is FULL of holograms

why ?

Maybe my technique is bad ? i put maybe to much " pressure " on the machine ?

:S

help me please:(


Any chance you can get a pic of what you are seeing for us? The PCXP, or any DA for that matter will not instill "holograms". It can micro marr or haze the paint, but that's pretty unlikely with Micro Polish unless you dry buffed it. Sounds to me like there is just excess polish or dried polish on the paint still. Pics would help a ton though.
 
okay ill try to post picsture ASAP...

I already polished this vehicule with these products and the car had no holograms :s

i suspect : the technique, a " dirty " pad or residue ?

for the residue... do i have to clay the car ? or simply wash it ?
 
Your post sounds like you've buffed out the entire car already?

One of the things I like to teach people is to do what's called a Test Spot, that's where you test your pads, products and process to one small area and make sure the combination of products plus your skill and technique are creating the results you're looking for and hoping for before tackling the rest of the car.

If you can make one small area look GREAT then this will give you the confidence to tackle the rest of the car with the assurance you'll get the same results.

If you're not getting the results you were looking for and hoping for... you'll be glad you didn't buff out the entire car.

Then come back to the forum, share what you're seeing and the rest of us will do our best to tweak your technique and/or process and see you through to success.


Test Spot - The story behind the story...


:)
 
okay ill try to post picsture ASAP...

I already polished this vehicule with these products and the car had no holograms :s

i suspect : the technique, a " dirty " pad or residue ?

for the residue... do i have to clay the car ? or simply wash it ?


When you're buffing out a car you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad...

Spent product
Removed paint


After you finish buffing one section of paint, you need to remove these things before moving onto a new section of paint.

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

ANYTIME you're abrading the surface whether you're using an aggressive cutting compound of an ultra fine polish, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad...

  • Spent product
  • Removed paint
You need to remove both of these substances from the face of the pad and the panel you're working on before you apply fresh product. If you don't,

  • Adding fresh product to spent product and removed paint adulterates the fresh product, it also dilutes it.
  • Buffing with a dirty pad will be more difficult.
  • The product will cake-up on the face of the pad.
  • The product will become gummy on the paint and hard to wipe off.
How to clean your pads and other options to make buffing clean again...

  • You can scrub the face of the pad with a nylon brush like a pad conditioning brush or even a nylon toothbrush
  • If using a Dual Action Polisher or a Rotary Buffer you can clean your pad on the fly with a terry cloth towel
  • You can wash your pads in a bucket of water
  • You can wash your pads in a sink under running water
  • You can wash your pads in a pad washer
  • You can switch to a clean, dry pad
  • You can switch to a brand new pad
I just buffed out half the hood on an oxidized 1959 Cadillac and used the technique along with a nylon brush and it works adequately enough to allow me to work clean and get back to work quickly.


That's the whole idea behind cleaning your pad on the fly... you can remove a majority of the spent product and removed paint and then get back to running the buffer... buffing out an entire car already takes a l-o-n-g time... stopping to do some kind of pad cleaning procedure that isn't quick and easy keeps you from buffing on the paint.


Fast methods include,
  • Pad Washers
  • Cleaning your pad on the fly with a terry cloth towel
  • Using a nylon pad conditioning brush
  • Using a Spur if you're using a wool pad on a rotary buffer

Slow methods, (they might work well but they take you away from buffing on the car)
  • You can wash your pads in a bucket of water
  • You can wash your pads in a sink under running water

:)
 
Read through this, see if anything stands out...


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
  • Removed paint
  • Spent product
As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


Pad Cleaning Articles

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

How to clean your foam pad on the fly

How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer


:buffing:
 
it boggles my mind how someone can buff out there entire car without checking there results often. I check my results thoroughly after each time I polish an area. Even if I know my chosen system is a home run hit.

I'm betting that you removed something with the polish that was hiding the holograms. A dirty pad on a DA would look like a child just learned how to make circles on a chalkboard and filled the entire board full with them.
 
well.... i'll try again ... clay + P08mc ... with a 7424Xp

damn its frustrating ...

i spend like 7 hours on it !
 
Try and get a pic up here before you go back to work on it. I'm no pro, but there are pro's on here that will probably be able to offer some sound reasoning on what you might have done wrong. (In addition to all of Mike P.'s tips, which of course are excellent). So again, :Picture:
 
You do not need to clay again. Work on a 2ft x 2ft section and see if you can get it close to perfect. Really take the time to look at each panel before going on to the next.
 
One thing i forgot to tell...
my backing plate is a UAP / NAPa ...
and my CCS country lake pad ( 6.5 inch ) was very " hot " and at the end the pad started to destroyed by itself :S


here is the pictures ..





help :(
 
What are we supposed to be looking at in the pictures ? I dont see any holograms. What is your definition of a hologram ?? And do you know what holograms from a rotary polisher look like ?

please explain what you are seeing that is wrong.
 
I don't see anything wrong with the paint. Try getting a close up photo with the sun shining on the paint. What kinda of towel are you removing the polish residue with?
 
Try this in the circle:
Start with a clean & dry white pad
Prime the pad with a spritz of detail spray
put (3) pea size drops of polish on the pad, one at each end and one in the middle.
Set your speed to 5
Work the polish side to side & up & down until it starts to look clear
Wipe the area off with micro fibre towel that has been soaked in water
Check your work and if the area is what you expected move on to the next panel, if not just repeat the process.
 
I can't really tell from the pictures, but another possibility it was excessive product used from polishing or an old LSP. Give it a good IPA or dawn wash and see if the holograms are still there first.
 
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