How’s this for a Bold statement…

[Eldorado2k]

Don’t quote me, because I certainly didn’t say or claim this, but I happened to come across a video on the tube earlier today where one of the self proclaimed preachers of gospel made what I consider a pretty bold statement…

Yvan Lacroix said that car manufacturers could paint cars perfectly if they choose to, but they instead purposely choose to paint cars with some orange peel in the paint.

If you know what I’m referring to, then you heard it as well… So I’m just leaving it here for you to discuss.

 

[Big DaveBig Dave is verified member.]

So just to make sure I understand, you heard someone say that Yvan said that, not that you heard Yvan say that. Because I did hear this statement from someone about him making that claim, but I don't remember where.

I don't follow any of the personality politics going on with the detailing illuminati. But the statement that they could paint cars perfectly, I suppose they could if cost wasn't an issue, but cost is an issue, so they don't. Just compare Lexus and Toyota paint finishes, same manufacturer, different expectations.

 

[DFB]

Don’t quote me, because I certainly didn’t say or claim this, but I happened to come across a video on the tube earlier today where one of the self proclaimed preachers of gospel made what I consider a pretty bold statement…

Yvan Lacroix said that car manufacturers could paint cars perfectly if they choose to, but they instead purposely choose to paint cars with some orange peel in the paint.

If you know what I’m referring to, then you heard it as well… So I’m just leaving it here for you to discuss.

I have heard Larry Kosilla say something similar, but in a less shock-jock kind of way.

The concept being that some orange peel is desirable to help disguise surface imperfections. That would include material variance and panel alignment from the factory, but it also helps with minor swirls caused during normal washing. If the painted surfaces were 100% orange peel free, then you would pick up every single imperfection.

I wouldn't say car companies purposely inflict orange peel, rather it's a byproduct of mass production that has a minor side benefit.

 

[Klasse Act]

Maybe his new should be Howard Stern...shock jock urrr, USED TO BE anyways. So we've got DJ Kalid and now Howard Stern in our community

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Setec Astronomy]

We've been hearing this for a long time, certainly on Autopia, if not here. I'd say at least 15 years ago. The explanation, as alluded to above, was that with the combination of double-side galvanized lower panels, and some of the reinforced plastics, that there are different levels of substrate smoothness on different parts of the car, and that the orange peel is used to give a uniform appearance, where otherwise different parts of the car might have different appearances.

Of course the orange peel was also blamed on the change from solvent-borne to water-borne paints, so pick your explanation.

 

[Eldorado2k]

So just to make sure I understand, you heard someone say that Yvan said that, not that you heard Yvan say that. Because I did hear this statement from someone about him making that claim, but I don't remember where.

I don't follow any of the personality politics going on with the detailing illuminati. But the statement that they could paint cars perfectly, I suppose they could if cost wasn't an issue, but cost is an issue, so they don't. Just compare Lexus and Toyota paint finishes, same manufacturer, different expectations.

He said it. His exact quote in his latest video is:



“Orange peel is actually manufactured into the car, they can decide, if the manufacturer wanted a zero orange peel car, they can program the robots to spray it. And like I said, you actually want orange peel in your car, it’s a good thing to have”.



I personally find that hard to believe, because if they could they would or at least would have by now on at least the highest end vehicles but even ordinary great cars such as Corvette struggle producing that car with grade A paint from the factory due to the shape of the body lines. Just as an example.

And no, I sure as hell don’t want orange peel in my car, and if modern paint weren’t so generally thin, I’d willingly hand sand my entire vehicle in order to eliminate every last bit of orange peel. I also disagree with him that it’s a good thing to have orange peel. I would choose perfect paint, thank you.

And just to top it off, he once again in that same video made his claim that rinsing a vehicle with a power washer can instill swirls. BS. I’d like to see him prove that bogus statement because I find it implausible. Whoever instilled swirls due to a pre wash rinse? Nobody.

 

[Eldorado2k]

We've been hearing this for a long time, certainly on Autopia, if not here. I'd say at least 15 years ago. The explanation, as alluded to above, was that with the combination of double-side galvanized lower panels, and some of the reinforced plastics, that there are different levels of substrate smoothness on different parts of the car, and that the orange peel is used to give a uniform appearance, where otherwise different parts of the car might have different appearances.

Of course the orange peel was also blamed on the change from solvent-borne to water-borne paints, so pick your explanation.

Where’s that mythical character “TOGWAH” or whatever his name was when we need him? I bet he’s forgotten more about paint, wax, and everything else that matters than Yvan has ever learned, except he’s too knowledgeable to have ever forgotten Anything, so that saying wouldn’t apply to him. Lol.

 

[Big DaveBig Dave is verified member.]

I would definitely love my car to have no orange peel as well, but I'm not paying for a re-spray to get it. Especially not when it sits outside 24/7, and it goes off road, on purpose.

And there's no way they put orange peel in the finish to make it more uniform, I see different amounts of orange peel on different panels on the same car all the time. Having worked on the Qashqai extensively I can say the best part is probably the C pillars, the upper surfaces are pretty good, but the doors are not as good.

One more thing, if a uniform appearance was that important, surely they'd make the plastic bumpers a better colour match, I mean some stand out like the proverbial dogs balls.

 

[Eldorado2k]

I think that if it was simply possible, and money/cost is the main factor preventing it from happening in most cases, then why don’t cars such as Bugatti, Ferrari, or a Mercedes Maybach come with absolutely perfect paint from the factory?

They sure charge enough for those cars that you’d think that kind of extra cost would be part of the deal + that type of customer would likely know how to care for the vehicle or have the money to hire professionals to maintain it for them.

 

[Texchappy]

I can confirm he said it. I don’t have enough experience with high end cars but is there any grain of truth. I’d expect Maybach maybe Aston Martin to have superior paint to something like my Ford or a Chevy. Is that the case?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Where’s that mythical character “TOGWAH” or whatever his name was when we need him? I bet he’s forgotten more about paint, wax, and everything else that matters than Yvan has ever learned, except he’s too knowledgeable to have ever forgotten Anything, so that saying wouldn’t apply to him. Lol.

Actually it was David Fermani, who at the time was an auto insurance adjuster, who explained it. His knowledge of the subject came from body shops that had to match the factory orange peel, so repainted panels didn't look different from the factory panels.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I think that if it was simply possible, and money/cost is the main factor preventing it from happening in most cases, then why don’t cars such as Bugatti, Ferrari, or a Mercedes Maybach come with absolutely perfect paint from the factory?

They sure charge enough for those cars that you’d think that kind of extra cost would be part of the deal + that type of customer would likely know how to care for the vehicle or have the money to hire professionals to maintain it for them.

That was the argument for the orange peel being a result of the water-borne paints.

 

[Desertnate]

I think that if it was simply possible, and money/cost is the main factor preventing it from happening in most cases, then why don’t cars such as Bugatti, Ferrari, or a Mercedes Maybach come with absolutely perfect paint from the factory?

They sure charge enough for those cars that you’d think that kind of extra cost would be part of the deal + that type of customer would likely know how to care for the vehicle or have the money to hire professionals to maintain it for them.

It is still all about cost and where they apply material costs no matter how much the unit price is for a vehicle. Those vendors may be putting more money into high-tech toys, engine tech and suspension performance, interior materials, etc.

While I don't think an automaker sets up their paint robots with the specific intent to give the surface orange peel, I do think process/techniques could be part of the equation. Frow whatever reason, my BMW had lots of orange peel paint. My GTI had a little, and my BRZ does not have any at all.

It's likely a combination multiple factors to include the paint itself, but again, I highly doubt any automaker does it on purpose.

 

[Desertnate]

That was the argument for the orange peel being a result of the water-borne paints.

This is what I heard in the late 90's when many of the German cars had orange peel and cars from other parts of the world did not. For some reason, I've never seen orange peel on a Porsche though...

 

[Setec Astronomy]

It's likely a combination multiple factors to include the paint itself, but again, I highly doubt any automaker does it on purpose.

I'm sorry I've got a hair in my ear this morning, but this should be a pretty easy question to answer, obviously a lot of people know the answer to this, because there are a lot of people that work at car companies, but here we are on the internet arguing about it.

I found this but was only able to skim over it, it seemed to cite multiple factors, substrate finish and cost were both mentioned: https://newoldcars.com/orange-peel-why-your-new-car-paint-may-look-so-bad/

 

[Desertnate]

I'm sorry I've got a hair in my ear this morning, but this should be a pretty easy question to answer, obviously a lot of people know the answer to this, because there are a lot of people that work at car companies, but here we are on the internet arguing about it.

I found this but was only able to skim over it, it seemed to cite multiple factors, substrate finish and cost were both mentioned: https://newoldcars.com/orange-peel-why-your-new-car-paint-may-look-so-bad/

Thanks. It looks like lots of factors to include water based paint, substrate, and even the surface of the sheet metal. That's a really good read.

My first mistake was biting on a discussion started due to something said by an individual on YouTube. I should have known better.

 

[BLM]

How in the flip would Yvan LaCroix know anything about how vehicles are painted in a factory setting???
The only way I would say Yvan would be qualified to make such a statement would be if he either worked as a painting tech at sn automotive assembly factory or was an engineer at an automotive factory that his area of expertise was automotive paint application.

Even then he would only be qualified to say what the norm was at the particular facility at which this hypothetical position was his.

 

[Klasse Act]

I think we need to know what's in the LaCriox he's drinking

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[dlc95]

Where’s that mythical character “TOGWAH” or whatever his name was when we need him? I bet he’s forgotten more about paint, wax, and everything else that matters than Yvan has ever learned, except he’s too knowledgeable to have ever forgotten Anything, so that saying wouldn’t apply to him. Lol.

The Old Grey Whistle Test.

TOGWT.

I remember him!

 

[Eldorado2k]

The Old Grey Whistle Test.

TOGWT.

I remember him!

Nice, you’re from the old school. It’s great to see you’re still around.

Once in a while I’ll dig deep into detailing rabbit holes on youtube and check out some old footage just for fun and I’ve stumbled on your name in the comment section numerous times.