How do you even respond to this sales pitch?

Bills latest line of BS from the FSC forum:

Buffer Bill said:
When you remove clear coat with sandpaper, compound, and polishes you remove the natural shine of the clear coat.Then wax must be applied to compensate for this
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Im the MAN
 
Let me make this simple. Wax does not bond to the clear coat, it sticks. Even using pristine wash methods ,wax will break down. Since wax is greasy in nature, dirt and grime will embed into the wax layer causing the finish to dull. Over time, washing will produce swirl marks. Normally, most hobbyists apply more wax which is a temp solution, and then swirl mark removers with more wax by hand. Then they realize that is not working, so compound, polish, or a polisher will be needed.

When will correction not be needed is my question? Answer : never. As long as you use wax this will be a problem you have live with. Once corrected, and re waxed it is just a matter of time before this same thing will happen again.
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Yes even using pristine wash methods wax does break down.

When cured wax isn't greasy anymore.

Bad washing will produce swirl marks.

Yes most hobbyists apply too much wax.

True if you keep doing something incorrectly you will get the same results.

If you want scratch resistance then the only way to go is a paint coating such as CQuartz, Opti-Coat (Opti-Guard), GTechniq C1+, etc, etc. Having applied both GTechniq C1 and Opti-Guard, I can say that they don't have an swirls in them from washing.
 
When I had my 2007 Mazda3, it was Galaxy Grey, very nice grey with silver-ish and purple-ish highlights in certain lights, and after I spent 10 hours correcting the paint, the gloss was unreal. I maintained it by using the foam gun before washing, 2 bucket method along with 2 wash mitts, washing only in straight lines, etc., you get the idea. I could look at the paint in the full blown Florida sun and I saw not ONE scratch or swirl in the paint. Once I first fully corrected the paint with my PC 7424XP, there was no need to do another full correction, but I'd hit a couple spots here and there when needed.

I can only assume that using the foam gun during every wash and using the 2 bucket and 2 mitt method yielded these flawless results. I think as long as you take your time and wash the paint as carefully as you can, you can eliminate scratches. The paint on that Mazda3 was CLEAN, never a swirl or scratch introduced back into the paint once corrected. Had I continued to use one bucket and one mitt with no foam gun for a pre-soak, I would have eventually seen swirls come back.

So what that guy said about paint always getting messed up and always needing to polish, I don't buy it at all. If he's experiencing that, he's doing something wrong.
 
1oldsalt said:
I know who wrote that. The guy is kind of a nut and has been banned or flamed mercilessly in the forums where he posts. He claims that scratches and swirls are caused by waxing. When people call him on it he gets insulting and belligerent. Like you said he's trying to sell some sort of acrylic sealant.
He claims to be a detailer and has some videos on youtube.
I wouldn't let him look at my car let alone detail it.
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Without addressing ANY of what the 'guy' had/has to say, it SURE DOES look like he is up to selling something. Something that is DIFFERENT than whatever anyone and EVERYONE else wants to offer up.

About all I can say about that is I'm seriously wanting to play around with polycharging. Some of our very best 'stuff' is indeed polycharged. UTTGP for instance! (and that's just a trim sealant) ;) Anyone remember the test of DG 951 that was PC'd? Made that stuff nice. :)

swanicyouth said:
If wax is the cause of swirls, how come the cars with the worse swirls are those that are never waxed / detailed / maintained ? Using that logic, those finishes should be pristine.
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On another note, I can tell you that waxing caused swirls in a little Chevy Aveo I ran across a week ago. The kid (well I call him a kid, even though he's just got out of a 6 year stint in the Army) went out and got himself a tub of TurtleSnot and went about applying it to a not so cool surface, in a not so shady area. I was there when he was applying it the first time and left. About 45 minutes later I came back and he had moved it inside where the ENTIRE THING was covered in cement hard TurtleSnot! At that time they were frantically trying to get it off, (to little avail) by grinding and pushing with brand new, unwashed, CHEAP MF towels. I pleaded with him to either 1; use a spritzer of water, 2; put more TurtleSnot on a little area at a time to soften it and remove it, and 3; run to the drugstore and grab up some mineral oil to also help soften it.

The next time I went back they had most of it off, using ONLY water, and TrUsT me.... waxing that puppy scratched the living HE!! out of it! :laughing:

Poor guy, he really trashed his not new, (but new to him) little car. Some of the scratches and swirls are so bad that your fingernail gets caught in them!!!!! :eek: I'm taking him a spray bottle of ONR for clay lube and he's going to clay it. I told him if he'd clay it it'll save me (maybe as long as 90 minutes considering how bad it is) considerable time. After that is done I'll do my best to 'help' with it but I honestly don't think the clear is going to stand any type of 'real' correction. What it NEEDS is a PTG and a full day of correction.... followed by a decent coating of Cquartz. What it'll get OTOH is about $200 worth of buffing. :dunno:

So YES.... waxing causes swirls.
(I'm running, ducking, and covering now.......) :laughing:
 
Bill is literally out of his mind

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD
 
Just so you're all aware, you've all been doing it wrong and are throwing away your hard earned money:
Q: ok, then Bill.... what IS the correct method of caring for automotive finishes?
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A: Wash your car with Dawn to remove dirt and grime. Use a real protection product like Opti Coat, and not a wax with a polymer added. Do not apply wax over it either because it will just cause swirls. Just wash it when it gets dirty, and that is it. No special 2 bucket method needed , or towels either. As a result, years will go by and your paint will still look great . You will not have a bunch of expensive unwanted detailing products collecting dust on a self, or a lot of wasted effort trying to chase a dream of the prefect finish on your car. IMO, protect your paint before the damage occurs , and there be no need for correction because their are no flaws to correct.
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Seriously, though... Does ANY Opti-Coat installer make this claim? Optimums website certainly doesn't... Bills getting awful brave.
Im the MAN
 
I've written and discarded several responses. I give up. This is a lost cause.

Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
I've written and discarded several responses. I give up. This is a lost cause.

Sent from my LG-VM701 using AG Online
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Yeah, I'm not sure why I try... Maybe it's cause he says:
FishinCricket, I am not going to waste my time arguing with you anymore, and this post shows clearly why. You must love to argue even when you do not have a clue what the hell you are talking about. You refer to AT-5 constantly with no experience with the product which is odd. You admit you are a newbie to detailing, and a hack that worked for a dealership screwing up cars. Although, you say I refuse to see logic. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
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lol, perceptive.. Ain't he?

Nah, I mainly argue because he says silly crap that's only half true. And I don't think I'll stop disagreeing when he's wrong. And he usually is. Funny that he seems to think FUNX725 and AeroCleanse agree with him! lol
 
I'm thinking over on FSC the thing that Mike says.... "push away from the keyboard" would be BY FAR the best thing. It's clear that everyone there thinks he's a joke anyhow. (I did see one post praising him somewhere, likely another of his own logon names.)

Sure.... strip EVERYTHING off your paint with Dawn, each and every time you wash it. Hmmmmm.....
 
cardaddy said:
I'm thinking over on FSC the thing that Mike says.... "push away from the keyboard" would be BY FAR the best thing. It's clear that everyone there thinks he's a joke anyhow. (I did see one post praising him somewhere, likely another of his own logon names.)

Sure.... strip EVERYTHING off your paint with Dawn, each and every time you wash it. Hmmmmm.....
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I'll certainly admit that I rarely know when to call it quits. :hungry:

:buffing:
 
He's been banned from Gmfullsize plenty of times

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD
 
cardaddy said:
I'm thinking over on FSC the thing that Mike says.... "push away from the keyboard" would be BY FAR the best thing. It's clear that everyone there thinks he's a joke anyhow. (I did see one post praising him somewhere, likely another of his own logon names.)

Sure.... strip EVERYTHING off your paint with Dawn, each and every time you wash it. Hmmmmm.....
Click to expand...

bootstrap said:
He's been banned from Gmfullsize plenty of times

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX HD
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lol, I don't understand why it's necessary to ban him repeatedly.. You'd think the place would do some type of permanent ban... Maybe it's just FSC's mods can't figure it out? Dipsticks like Buffer Bill don't seem to be a problem here... ???
 
I feel that wax is an appearance product with some protective benefits, but Opti Coat adds real protection from things like bird droppings, acid rain, and strong chemicals. For example: Optimum Car Wax prevents fading with patented UV technology...but does very little against acid etching. You can always top Opti Coat with you favorite wax to keep the look you like.

Another rarely mentioned benefit is restoring film thickness. Too often we polish away valuable clear like there's an infinite amount on every car. Opti Coat is the only way short of a respray to add measurable thickness. And then because it out performs factory clear coats, if OU do need to repolish later you'll be removing the Opti Coat instead of going deeper into your factory coat.
 
Chris@Optimum said:
I feel that wax is an appearance product with some protective benefits, but Opti Coat adds real protection from things like bird droppings, acid rain, and strong chemicals. For example: Optimum Car Wax prevents fading with patented UV technology...but does very little against acid etching. You can always top Opti Coat with you favorite wax to keep the look you like.

Another rarely mentioned benefit is restoring film thickness. Too often we polish away valuable clear like there's an infinite amount on every car. Opti Coat is the only way short of a respray to add measurable thickness. And then because it out performs factory clear coats, if OU do need to repolish later you'll be removing the Opti Coat instead of going deeper into your factory coat.
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I actually agree with you! I'm glad you're here too, cause this fella I'm ranting about is currently on that discussion board making some pretty boastful sidelong claims regarding your product! Specifically he's implying that you can live a swirl free existence if you simply:
Just wash it when it gets dirty, and that is it. No special 2 bucket method needed , or towels either. As a result, years will go by and your paint will still look great .
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Now I've read over your website pretty carefully and it's clear to me that you folks realize that your product will not completely prevent swirls from improperly applying wax or improperly washing or drying your vehicle... What I don't get is:

Why doesn't your website state that? Feed back please
 
Fishincricket said:
I actually agree with you! I'm glad you're here too, cause this fella I'm ranting about is currently on that discussion board making some pretty boastful sidelong claims regarding your product! Specifically he's implying that you can live a swirl free existence if you simply:


Now I've read over your website pretty carefully and it's clear to me that you folks realize that your product will not completely prevent swirls from improperly applying wax or improperly washing or drying your vehicle... What I don't get is:

Why doesn't your website state that? Feed back please
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I suppose its because we fully understand the products capabilities, but cannot predict the enthusiast's level of expectation or skill regarding maintenance. When describing any product we present it in the "best case" or "what you CAN/COULD achieve based on our testing as professionals. Our product descriptions are meant to be concise and focus on what the product offers...while limitations are something to discuss with those who have experience with the products (not limited to manufacturers) so that you're answers aren't so biased.

I personally manage our discussion forum and have helped numerous Optimum customer with proper usage as well as help to identify problems when products aren't living up to the label. Rarely we have a situation where the customer wants to use the satisfaction guarantee, because most times we're able to correct the issue with more personalized instruction.

If you'd like me to separate the facts from fiction regarding Opti Coat, just post them here or pm me.
 
I would say your answer is sufficient, Chris.. I appreciate your responses. A few yes or no answers here would do wonders for the mentally handicap fellow I am conversing with over on FSC though, he doesn't seem to get it. Just three:

1. Does Opti-Coat prevent swirls (not random isolated deep scratches or holograms, but "swirls") completely?

2. Can a person with opticoat on their car abandon the meticulous washing methods designed here (and elsewhere) to prevent swirls?

3. From your experience, on a DD, aren't the majority of swirl marks caused by improper washing methods? (If no, please expound)
 
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