How do you explain paint correction to a customer?

[Scott@IncrediblyDetailed]

What about the jerk customer who says:

"Hey, I didn't want that done !!! Now my swirled up paint doesn't match !!! Fix it or I'll sue you !!!"

It's simple. Do not do anything to the car unless the customer has okayed it. If you are going to do a test spot to show the customer what is possible, do it in front of them, not after they drop their vehicle off.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

It's simple.

It really is, thanks for adding your comments.

Quick question Scott, do you remember when you went through my detailing boot camp class how I started the Power Point Presentation with the first thing you do is

1. Evaluate the customer


Besides the introduction slides to the course, when the meat of the power point starts it's the primary slide.


Here's the slide,

I then go on to say,

There are some people that you cannot please and it's your job as a professional to have the skill set to talk to a person, get a feeling for where their expectations are for the job and then determine if you can please them or not.

There are some people you don't want to work for...

 

[Paul A.]

And i will add a little progressive thought to Mike's "evaluate the customer"...

I have some clients who have come to me for years, and i mean years! A very small fraction of them have been developed into more discerning customers who, having started out as "basic package" customers years ago to now asking for more paint "correction" or at least a little more each time. Those customers are probably the one's who have been impressed and have evolved into wanting even more because of my relationship with them and the work i do. My customers are like my kids...i nurture them along with only what they are willing to accept but with each visit comes just a little more "education". Not a hard sell approach but more of a nudge towards "hey, it could be even better" because they asked or seem willing to progress a little more into the "science" side.

I actually enjoy my dynamic relationships with those customers and remind myself to evaluate those returning for THIS job. So, yes, evalute EVERY customer as best you can but continue to evaluate all customers...even those returning for service.

 

[Kyle_Elantra]

I disagree with this. As long as you are upfront with the client and tell them what the corrected spot will look like and that it will stand out like a sore thumb, if they are still curious to see what you can do to fix their paint, then you have given them the information they need to make an informed decision. If you evaluate the client properly then you will know when to not even bother offering to do this.

If you just do a test spot without telling them what you are doing, that's a different story and I agree with you that that is highly unethical. That's like shoveling someone's driveway then ringing their doorbell and telling them they owe you 50 bucks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's my point exactly, if you do the test spot without going over it with them first, that's what I have a problem with.

If you discussed it with the owner? Then to me that's fine, expectations are set and there's no surprises.

Doing a test spot when they don't know you're going to is what I was referring to as predatory.

Mike, yes, I read the part about the risk but even then, just accepting that it's a risk doesn't give anyone the right to leave a "good" spot on someone's car that doesn't want one.

I don't get star struck so whoever came up with this idea won't change my mind that doing a test spot, without permission, is deceptive.

If the discussion happened and the owner understands then this is a great idea.
It's when the detailer does so without the owners knowledge that I believe it is manipulative.

 

[Paul A.]

And for some of those clients i break out pen and paper and share the diagram of varying paint "defects" Mike displayed some time ago. A line for the top of the clear coat, another for the base coat, primer etc. Then the indentations showing scratches and marring and above surface contaminants.

I then explain what my processes used does to remove all of them.

Again, those are with the willing customers who, after evaluation, seem more than willing to hear and then see it graphically.

My favorite customer is an engineer by trade who owns a black BMW M6 convertible. He is very technically adept and asks incredible questions that demonstrate to me he understands.

And i ALWAYS have an answer thanks to you guys! :xyxthumbs:

 

[Pureshine]

It is absolutely not a waste of your time. I could see that if you were doing it as a hobby or on the side. In that case you decide what you want to work on and when you want to work on it. Since you do this for a living, letting a person willing to pay for your work walk away is just bad business.

If a customer tells you they will maintain the finish on their car and they don't, who is at fault? If you spend 15 hours correcting their paint and they bring the car back a couple months later all swirled out are you going to yell and scream at them for wasting your time? Or would you rather they go to the hack detailer down the street every couple months?

You may be booked out 4-6 weeks right now, but what if you slow down? Hopefully that never happens, but businesses almost always have high and low periods. Are you going to turn paying customers away when you are slow because they are "wasting your time?"

Not to mention that there are some people out there that will buy the most expensive package just because it is "the best" and that's all they care about.

Is it unethical for Nike to charge $200 for a pair of shoes when it costs them a couple of bucks to have them made? Most people know that designer labels cost pennies to produce, yet they spend their money anyway.

I have never in 3 years had a customer walk away I sell them what they need it's called being a good sales person. Like Mike said have packaged for every customer. The reason I'm booked 3-4 weeks all year is cause I'm up front and honest and my customers like that and trust me. Tell all there friends and co-workers. I have customer work truck here now in my show he wanted paint correction and after talking to him paint correction wasn't for him. So I sold him my complete detail package that has and AIO to bring out the shine to make it look good again. I up sold on a 4-6 month sealant. Now he trust me and I'm get his other 2 cars and his Harley. If I do slow down I will still do business the same way as I have for 5 years.

 

[Flash Gordon]

First, that's your job to become good at evaluating people.

Second, that's a hypothetical that is from my experienced in this trade the exception, not the rule.

But here's the fix Flash... for you... don't do it.

For most people, unless you really know what you're doing and you're willing to take the risk that it's possible you might have to do a detail for free, don't do it.

My VIF form actually states don't touch anyone's car until they have signed the VIF form.




:dunno:

I'm not a believer in Vehicle Inspection Forms either. IMO you are setting yourself up by practicing this method too. What if you miss the chip in the windshield?


Test Spots & Vehicle Inspection Forms are two things I guess we will have to agree to disagree on. If a customer isn't willing up front to pay to have their car polished, I doubt very seriously doing a test spot will make any difference
I think I am starting to understand why you guys spend 14 hours performing a 1 step polishing job

b.t.w. I consider myself somewhat of an expert at evaluating people. I turn down (on average) 10 jobs for every 1 that I will except

 

[FUNX650]

By this, I mean, how do you tell them that their paint is in really bad shape but in order to fix it, its going to cost a couple hundred dollars or more?

Today I did a detail for a customer and because it was an old friends parents and I had nothing else for the day, I went to town. The car was DESTROYED by a stealerships 16 year old "detailer". Compound everywhere, holograms, swirls, you name it.

But I was just curious what approach some of you take when explaining to a customer why it is they need "paint correction".

I've been at this for a several years and I've done countless "paint corrections", but for some reason today, it just struck me that I need to figure out how to get some customers to bite on this procedure since "just waxing it" won't do anything.

Do you pull out a plastic bag and make them feel the contaminents in the paint?

Do you do a sample spot and show them? What if they don't want it and now have just one spot that looks great and the rest, "meh"?

Ok, so #endrant lol

So far (several years):
You seem to have been doing a pretty good job of "selling"...For another selling point: Why not just show them what you did here:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/80170-porsche-gt3-full-swirl-removal.html

Bob

Note:
Great looking job on the wheels:
Love the chrome on "sports cars"!!

 

[EVOlved]

Note:
Great looking job on the wheels:
Love the chrome on "sports cars"!!

Well there is so something you and I have to disagree on .

As far as the thread goes, I believe I am with Mike on this it is all about evaluating the car and the customer. If the customer is unsure and is definitely going to do something why not show them a test spot of optimal results. Obviously maintenance etc.. Should be discussed before this point. This is a great thread and just shows how sometimes great minds do think differently.

 

[slimnib]

I am not a detailer. I really find this thread really interesting. People really have a strange idea of what is right and wrong. I guess money does that.


I think that before you sell someone of a full correction, you need to make it clear to them how hard it is to keep a car corrected. Do not tell anyone that it is easy, because for the general public it is not. ( I am 77 are you going to tell me that it is easy to keep a car fully corrected )

If you tell your customer that if you maintain the car it will remain corrected and give them an idea of what yearly maintenance would cost them, I guess that would be OK

The customer should be warned if he uses a car wash, leaves the car on the street most of time, or just gives a quick wash on his own, his expensive full correction will not last and let him choose with full disclosure

 

[Andr3wilson]

So your just another detailer to that takes advantage of his customer to make a quick $$$? Thats what wrong with this business people like you guys that make a bad name for use. I'm booked out 4-6 week and I'm always up front and honest with my customers and won't up sell something they don't need. But if you guys have no integrity or pride in what you do by all means take advantage of your customers it will all come back to you in the end!

Are you serious right now? Rolling off a couple insults? (they are indirect, but aimed at guys like me)

My clients pay a fair rate for honest work, I am taking advantage? Look man, if thats your opinion you are welcome to it. Its your gig and you are responsible for yourself. Good luck :dblthumb2:

 

[Pureshine]

Are you serious right now? Rolling off a couple insults? (they are indirect, but aimed at guys like me)

My clients pay a fair rate for honest work, I am taking advantage? Look man, if thats your opinion you are welcome to it. Its your gig and you are responsible for yourself. Good luck :dblthumb2:

I felt you insulted the way I do my business honestly. If you ok taking people money no matter what then good for you. The way I do business had made very successful in this business by being honest and up front and won't sell them something they don't need. To many of you guys worry about the money more than doing a good job and what's right for the customer. I'm done with this people now days just don't get and don't want to get it. This generation is what is wrong in this country all about money and not what right very sad! This my last post on this forum for awhile I can't read this crap anymore really.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hey let's keep this discussion professional.

The fact that we're all hanging out on a detailing discussion forum means we all have more in common than we have in differences.


Sometimes it helps to push away from the keyboard and get a fresh breath of air....


:dblthumb2:

 

[Klasse Act]

What about the jerk customer who says:

"Hey, I didn't want that done !!! Now my swirled up paint doesn't match !!! Fix it or I'll sue you !!!"

I chose to use the Crayon color green here....obviously I would say to them "do you mind if I show you something?" and then and ONLY then do the test spot. Telling them your paint surface is like a mountain range isn't going to click with most people and its why the paint doesn't shine and leveling the paint out through polishing is what makes the finish shiney, so its why I'd rather show them then tell them, proof they can see in undeniable! There's people out there that don't know this hobby one bit but simple education or in my case SHOW EM is the best and easiest way.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

 

[Paul A.]

I think, pureshine, that we are all pretty similar in that we take a great deal of pride in what we do. Part of what probably every single one of us deals with is the majority of customers who don't either want or understand what our true potential is. As was said earlier, i also get very few full correction jobs however i give those customers exactly what they are paying for.

When it comes to the ethical approach to doing business i hope we are all as honest as we can be with every one of them. Many of us here have been doing this for many years. The "jury pool" of our returning customers confirms we are doing something they like. And treat them with respect and fairly.

I think the consensus here is that no one is trying to pull the wool over a customers eyes. However, for those customers who may be open for more of what you do all the better. And i think we all agree that the customer should be told everything about what that is and how they can maintain it. If that means a test spot to sell it, it is done for a customer who agrees they would like to see it after being told it will "stick out" like a sore thumb and if the entire car is given the go ahead it is the customer's decision. Going back to the original posters question...how do you "educate" your customers? Obviously very carefully with some and sometimes not at all because they don't care. It's the ones who do care that satisfy us the most...they let us do what we truly love to do!

I think sometimes flare ups occur because this form of communication is one directional and lacks true human discourse. I think if we were all sitting together in a room talking about this we would probably understand better what each point is bringing to the discussion. Perspective is shared genuinely and i bet we wouldn't have taken a nasty turn.

Be comfortable with how you conduct your business. It is working for you and someone else may be totally different. That's ok but i still and always remain open minded about hearing different perspectives. And i have had people call me bad things in the past but i am comfortable with how i do things. That's the bottom line.

 

[Showtime]

I felt you insulted the way I do my business honestly. If you ok taking people money no matter what then good for you. The way I do business had made very successful in this business by being honest and up front and won't sell them something they don't need. To many of you guys worry about the money more than doing a good job and what's right for the customer. I'm done with this people now days just don't get and don't want to get it. This generation is what is wrong in this country all about money and not what right very sad! This my last post on this forum for awhile I can't read this crap anymore really.

If you tell the customer: hey look, I'm going to do this, but please, don't take it to a hand car wash or brush car wash at a gas station...if you are going to get it washed, either have me do it, or take it through a touchless wash, and even that isn't recommended. I don't see the problem with doing paint correction in that case.

If they say "No, im going to pay $350+ to do this and then butcher it again, then ya, maybe at that point you should say "well, i can't do this then". But then you run the risk of being sued for <insert discriminatory statement here>.

If a customer wants something, do it. Explain to them what they need to do afterwards, but do it.

 

[GenesisCoupe]

If it's a woman I tell them machine polishing is like getting a face scrub. Most can relate to that and will at least go for a 1 step polish

That's great! Mind if i use it?

Simple, test spott and show em', takes the over explaining out of it!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

While that sounds like it would show them immediate results, not all will like having a 2x2 box all swirl free and the rest full of swirls. You can clearly see the difference in a dark colored car. I used to do this, but now i only do it if the customer is FOR SURE getting some sort of correction. I found it that it saves me time on estimates and customers time.

What about the jerk customer who says:

"Hey, I didn't want that done !!! Now my swirled up paint doesn't match !!! Fix it or I'll sue you !!!"

^^Well said.


If i notice that during a quote or discussion with a customer that they seem really interested i will take out my LEd and show them the swirls and tell them that i can make them go away. Usually they want more info so i explain to them.

One time a guy wanted a show car finish on their Nissan Sentra. I asked whether he takes it to automatic car washes; he said yes. I then stated that i would feel bad for charging him so much for work that will last a month or so. Gotta be honest.

 

[6supersport7]

When doing full corrections I always explain how much time and effort will be needed to maintain the finish before and after I do the job. After explaining this to them, if they choose to go with the full correction that's what I give them even if I think they might not actually take care of it. I don't think that is bad business or misleading in anyway, its their choice. If anything you shouldn't judge someone and automatically think they are not going to take care of their vehicle the right way. I don't decline a full interior job unless they sign a no food policy in the car either,lol.

On topic, OP try taking lots of pictures and bring a tablet with you. You can then show them those dramatic before and after you get with full corrections.

 

[brondondolon]

By this, I mean, how do you tell them that their paint is in really bad shape but in order to fix it, its going to cost a couple hundred dollars or more?

Today I did a detail for a customer and because it was an old friends parents and I had nothing else for the day, I went to town. The car was DESTROYED by a stealerships 16 year old "detailer". Compound everywhere, holograms, swirls, you name it.

But I was just curious what approach some of you take when explaining to a customer why it is they need "paint correction".

I've been at this for a several years and I've done countless "paint corrections", but for some reason today, it just struck me that I need to figure out how to get some customers to bite on this procedure since "just waxing it" won't do anything.

Do you pull out a plastic bag and make them feel the contaminents in the paint?

Do you do a sample spot and show them? What if they don't want it and now have just one spot that looks great and the rest, "meh"?

Ok, so #endrant lol

I don't think I'd do a test spot to show the customer. I mean, if I were to have my car detailed and I now have this super clean spot that sticks out like a sore thumb I'd be Pissed. Maybe that person doesn't want a paint correction because they can't afford it. Now they gotta sit with this super clean spot that makes the rest of the car look terrible. It may work in some cases but in the ones it doesn't work I see it possibly being a nightmare. The only way I could see it working is if the customer is on the fence and they agree to letting you show them. The unfortunate reality is the majority of the people out there can't tell the difference between a clay and wax and a paint correction.

As far as pitching it to the person how I would do it is this. Break out a swirl finder light and show the person the scratches. Once they see them explain to the person how they most likely got there then explain how you can remove them and why they would want them removed. This is also the best time to set them up on a regular schedule. Hope that helps. Be friendly and do your best to not sound like a used car salesman.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using AG Online

 

[slimnib]

Are you serious right now? Rolling off a couple insults? (they are indirect, but aimed at guys like me)

My clients pay a fair rate for honest work, I am taking advantage? Look man, if thats your opinion you are welcome to it. Its your gig and you are responsible for yourself. Good luck :dblthumb2:

It is still buyer beware.