How many pads per color

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CaioGonzalez

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Hello Mike,

My name is Caio Cesar, I am from brazil and every six months I am in usa. I bought a new ford focus in my countrand it came with some light swirls...its a white car.. I. Boughta porter cable, a bundle xmt swirls remover, xmt clay bar, sealant, wax, and two orange ccs pads, one whiteand two black ones...

I have some doubts:

First: you teach us to remove swirls by sections, for example in a hood dividing by four sections, can I use the pad without cleaning it in all four sections? And after the hood, let's remove the doors swirls can I use the same pad or do I have to change or clean it?basically, can I use one orange pad, one white pad and one black pad for the whole car or do I need more pads in the same color for a whole car? If so, how many pads per color for a car like hatch focus?

Second: swirls removers, clay bars, and cutting pads should be use how many times a year? I ask that, because they are abrasives products and may dimish the paint till the point to repaint it?

Wat for your reply.
Thanks,
Caio Gonzalez
 
Welcome to AGO.
What size pads did you get and what xmt polish? As far as when to switch pads, that depends on how dirty the paint is and how quick the polish and clear your removing builds up on the pad. Usually you should at least clean the pad on the fly after each section. This can be done with a brush/pad cleaning tool, or a terry cloth towel. Also, you can quickly and lightly wash the face of the pad off under flowing water, and then use a clean towel to dry it. Then get back to work with the pad. This would be recommended if you only had one pad for a particular purpose like the white pad; recommend having a few polishing pads like white or hydeotech tangerine. When you have two of one kind then just keep rotating them. That is clean one pad thoroughly in water and squeeze it dry in a towel then let it air dry while using the other one. You will know when a pad needs to be cleaned, whether on the fly or washed, when you notice it not working with the product like it did when it was clean. Usually, a sign would be spent product coming off the pad in the form of little balls. Also, if you inspect the paint after doing a section with a used pad and notice hazing or DA tick marks, or defects not being removed as well anymore, or a combination of all, that's a sign the pad needs to be cleaned/rotated. On the DA you will also notice the pad not wanting to rotate as well also. If in doubt switch/clean it out. ;)
As far as how often to use any product, as often as your vehicle needs it. If you use proper wash techniques and often, and keep a protectant on the paint, then you can months with out needing to do more than wash and spray wax the car. But it is dependent on the environment, your techniques for maintaining the exterior, and how particular you are about the appearance of your car.
 
thanks a lot for your reply.

I bought all xmt swirl removers, from the heavy to the light one. 6.5 ccs pads 2 orange, 1 white and 2 black ones, plus clay bar, xmt sealant, wax, xmt pad cleaner and conditioner...
My car is a new one.. I have some friends that would like me for sure to remove swirls on their cars if I do it right....
And I viewed some posts where guys said they use about 4 orange pads, 4 white, and 4 black or blue pads.... Then i was wondering, i am starting to do it wrong with my few pads....

I also tbought i could use one pad on the whole car without cleaning it....then when going to polish another car so this pad should be cleaned, like to clean a pad when to use on another car. But I got your explanarions.

If you get a car to remove swirls relatively light to moderate, how many pads would you use, I mean how many per color?

Thanks again,
Caio Gonzalez
 
I'm only about 2 1/2 years into correcting paint, so take my input with a grain of salt. I started off with two 6'5" orange ccs pads for swirl removal, and two 6'5" white ccs pads for polish and/or glaze. I found myself wanting at least one more of each when doing my work. I used a blue ccs pad for the wax once, but don't feel it's necessary when applying wax, so I apply it by hand now.

Just my two cents,
Michael
 
Before you invest any more $$$ in pads you might want to switch to a 5" backing plate and purchase 5.5" pads. The PC has trouble keeping 6.5" pads spinning.

In general more pads are better. Seems that the cause of failure from many beginners is trying to use one or two pads per step.

IMO at a mimimum you need 4 pads for compounding, 4 for polishing and then a couple finishing pads. If you want to apply LSPs with the machine then IMO you should have one red pad (or whatever color has little to no cut) for each LSP then dedicate that pad for that LSP. "Clean on the fly" after every other section at a minimum.
 
You will not need the xmt 4 or 3. They are too aggressive for a new paint. I wouldn't have recommended the xmt line of compounds in the first place. The 2 and 1 are pretty good polishes, but even they can take some practice to learn how to use properly. A better choice would have been the pinnacle advanced swirl remover and finishing polish. I actually started with pretty much the exact same setup and never really liked the way xmt 4/3 finished. Anyway, I would say return the polishes and pads if you could but, since you probably won't be able to just stick with using 2/1 polishes. The pads are too big as well for the PC and wont let you work the smaller and more intricate panels on your car. So in the future get some 5-5.5 inch pads like the lake country hybrids or hydrotechs. And maybe some 4" pads as well. A polish like Wolfgang Total swirl remover or Pinnacle advanced swirl remover will be easier to use and finish really well if used with a polish pad like the whites or hydrotech tangerine; probably wouldn't even need the finishing polish.
Do you know how thick the pads are? If under an inch they may rotate okay on the PC.
At any rate, play around with the machine to get he hang of it. Practice on some flat panels (doesn't even have to be a car panel let alone yours) to get he feel of the machine with the finishing pads and the 1 polish or maybe even something non abrasive. Get used to working in small areas no bigger 18"x18". With xmt polishes you have to work them long enough to break down the abrasives. You can always mist some water on the pad to work the polish/abrasives longer if the section needs it; instead of adding more product that you'll have to work through a whole cycle again.
Just practice and ask questions on here. And have fun:)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online
 
ski2 said:
Before you invest any more $$$ in pads you might want to switch to a 5" backing plate and purchase 5.5" pads. The PC has trouble keeping 6.5" pads spinning.

In general more pads are better. Seems that the cause of failure from many beginners is trying to use one or two pads per step.

IMO at a mimimum you need 4 pads for compounding, 4 for polishing and then a couple finishing pads. If you want to apply LSPs with the machine then IMO you should have one red pad (or whatever color has little to no cut) for each LSP then dedicate that pad for that LSP. "Clean on the fly" after every other section at a minimum.
Click to expand...

:whs:

First though, Welcome to AGO! :D

You would do well to switch to 5½ pads for two reasons. 1: they work better with the PC and 2: they are CHEAPER. :)

I wouldn't agree with washing a pad with water or any liquid cleaner then trying to reuse it right away. Cleaning on the fly and keeping the pad dry will allow you to work longer with it.

Yes it is possible to do the car with only 2 orange pads but it will take you all day. The biggest enemy is heat that builds up inside the pad.

You mentioned dividing the hood into 4 sections. Do 2 sections then pull the pad off and feel how warm it is on the back. Might not feel too warm to the hand, if not try it on the back of your hand, or even to your cheek. If it's more than slightly warm you need to remove it, clean it, and let it rest. That is why you have pads to change over to.

Typically you'll want 4 to 6 pads for compounding. Another 3 to 4 for polishing. I would caution that it is not possible to use a single color of pad for compounding on every car without doing a test area first. While orange is very common it may be that you could use a white pad instead. This is why it is good to have at least 4 orange, white, and blue at the very least. Although.... you can use a lesser cut compound and more cut in the pad, or more cut in the compound and less cut in the pad. No exact science with this hobby, and that is why there are so many choices. :props:
 
cardaddy said:
:

I wouldn't agree with washing a pad with water or any liquid cleaner then trying to reuse it right away. Cleaning on the fly and keeping the pad dry will allow you to work longer with it.
Click to expand...


I wasn't saying to use it wet, or to even saturate the pad. Just enough flowing water to allow most of the surface gunk(spent product/paint) to be removed so the pad can be used again in the same setting. Using a terry cloth towel to roll the pad in and squeeze majority of the moisture out gets it dry enough to use again right way. After a couple of passes on a section the pad would be almost completely dry and no issues should be had. You can always put the pad on the DA and spin it up to setting 3-4 while holding a towel over/around the face of the pad to absorb water and keep it from slinging randomly. It's always best to clean pads away from and down wind of anything you don't want pad sling on, e.g. the vehicle being polished.
Hope is clearer and takes out some guess work. But yes, this is why having 3 or more pads per step helps alleviate this problem. One Then that's nice with reusing freshly cleaned pads though, is that they are already broken in and don't need as much product to prime the again; the little bit of moisture in the pad from cleaning it helps reduce the amount of product needed to prime and may help extend to working cycle of some compounds.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online
 
ShaunD said:
I wasn't saying to use it wet, or to even saturate the pad. Just enough flowing water to allow most of the surface gunk(spent product/paint) to be removed so the pad can be used again in the same setting. Using a terry cloth towel to roll the pad in and squeeze majority of the moisture out gets it dry enough to use again right way. After a couple of passes on a section the pad would be almost completely dry and no issues should be had. You can always put the pad on the DA and spin it up to setting 3-4 while holding a towel over/around the face of the pad to absorb water and keep it from slinging randomly. It's always best to clean pads away from and down wind of anything you don't want pad sling on, e.g. the vehicle being polished.
Hope is clearer and takes out some guess work. But yes, this is why having 3 or more pads per step helps alleviate this problem. One Then that's nice with reusing freshly cleaned pads though, is that they are already broken in and don't need as much product to prime the again; the little bit of moisture in the pad from cleaning it helps reduce the amount of product needed to prime and may help extend to working cycle of some compounds. Especially DAT products, e.g. Menzerna
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using AG Online
Click to expand...

There is some great information in this for the OP! :dblthumb2:
 
thank you guys for all these explanations..
here goes more questions....

To polish small areas do you recomend 2 7/8 inch flexible backing plates with 4 inch ccs pads?

Whats the difference between wool pads and foam pads? i see that both remove swirls but in wich situation must i use them considering from new cars to 3 years old?


Thanks again,
Caio
 
cardaddy said:
:whs:

First though, Welcome to AGO! :D

You would do well to switch to 5½ pads for two reasons. 1: they work better with the PC and 2: they are CHEAPER. :)

I wouldn't agree with washing a pad with water or any liquid cleaner then trying to reuse it right away. Cleaning on the fly and keeping the pad dry will allow you to work longer with it.

Yes it is possible to do the car with only 2 orange pads but it will take you all day. The biggest enemy is heat that builds up inside the pad.

You mentioned dividing the hood into 4 sections. Do 2 sections then pull the pad off and feel how warm it is on the back. Might not feel too warm to the hand, if not try it on the back of your hand, or even to your cheek. If it's more than slightly warm you need to remove it, clean it, and let it rest. That is why you have pads to change over to.

Typically you'll want 4 to 6 pads for compounding. Another 3 to 4 for polishing. I would caution that it is not possible to use a single color of pad for compounding on every car without doing a test area first. While orange is very common it may be that you could use a white pad instead. This is why it is good to have at least 4 orange, white, and blue at the very least. Although.... you can use a lesser cut compound and more cut in the pad, or more cut in the compound and less cut in the pad. No exact science with this hobby, and that is why there are so many choices. :props:
Click to expand...

When you say 4-6 for compounding and 3-4 for polishing... roughly how often are you changing pads? And are you re-using them on the same vehicle once they are clean and cool again?

Basically with 4-6, I see two ways that they could be used; 1) roughly a pad for each panel (depending on vehicle size); cleaning on the fly between each section pass; and rotating back to previously used pads for the latter panels (as needed) 2) changing pads after each section pass; clean on the fly to remove buildup and spent product; using the time from going through the pads to allow them to cool.

The same could be done with the polishing pads, although with a lesser number, they wouldn't have 'as much' time to cool as the compounding pads. That said, there usually wouldn't be as much paint buildup [clear] on the pads as with the compounding step either... so I'm guessing they pads don't get quite as dirty.
 
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