How many times can I correct my car's paint? (before going through the clearcoat)

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Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.

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How many times can I correct my car's paint? (before going through the clearcoat)



Anytime I get questions via e-mail, a PM or a FB message I prefer to invest my typing time where

A: It's easier for me to share links, pictures and videos.

B: More people can read and thus benefit from the information. (no just one set of eyeballs)


The reality is, most people that contact me found me via an article I've written or a reply I've written on this forum. The thing is, instead of figuring out that the whole reason they are contacting me is because they found me via an article or answer I wrote on the forum that they to should bring their question to the forum because not only will that help them.... but it will help a future "them". If I answer everything in a private e-mail or other touch point, no one would find and contact me. It's a cycle or pattern that repeats as long as everything is shared in the public domain.

The above is kind of wordy but re-read it slowly and it will make sense.


So I get an e-mail asking,



Hi Mike,

I am an amateur "detailer"/weekend warrior and would hopefully like to progress further down the line to dealing customers cars. I have only been doing this sort of thing on my own car for a couple of months so still have a lot to learn.

I have been lurking on the megs forums but am not actually a member on there (I may have to create an account as the forum is amazing).this is where I found your contact details, I hope me sending this question via email is okay with you.

My question is mainly regarding compounds and polishes. I don't possess a DA or rotary polisher so everything I do is done by hand.

The products I have in my possession are mainly AF (autofinesse) and meguiars. My car is a 2012 ford fiesta which clearly hadn't been looked after paint wise by the previous owner (lots of small swirls and some surface defects).

A month or so ago I followed a full wash, chemical decontamination, clay bar, polish and wax session. The Polish I used was tripple by AF. as far as I'm aware this contains diminishing abrasives, fillers and a small amount of carnauba wax. I followed this up with one coat of megs liquid wax. The finish looked great but has slowly started to degrade due to the thin layer of wax I laid down wearing off due to weathering.

I would now like to compound, Polish and wax to give a more permanent finish to my paint without solely relying on the fillers and glaze in the Polish so if the wax does wear off I can just top it up without going back to the polishing stage. The product I have in mind is megs ultimate compound.

My question may be a tough one to answer due to many factors but......

how often could one safely compound/polish the car before damaging clear coat?.

As I say, I will only be applying these with a foam applicator pad by hand. How much paint is removed from the clear coat following a compounding/polishing session? Whether this be by hand or machine.

Please excuse the lengthy email, this has just been bugging me.

Thanks in advance

John
​



Great questions John,


First, take a moment to read through what I wrote here on this topic in 2009


https://www.autogeekonline.net/foru...how-many-times-can-you-buff-5.html#post268066



Here's the answer to your question and the BIG PICTURE point of view - you're THINKING is wrong.


Don't think like this,

Instead of wondering or asking how many times you can compound or correct the paint on your car before you buff through the clearcoat?


Think like this!

After you polish and wax a car, STOP DOING THINGS TO THE PAINT THAT WOULD CAUSE YOU TO HAVE TO COMPOUND THE CAR AGAIN.



For example, after you correct, polish and wax or seal or coat the paint, do do things that put scratches back into the paint - then you won't have to correct the paint again and that makes your question a moot point. Of course with normal driving and thus normal wear-n-tear you will get light or SHALLOW swirls and scratches, even I get this with my cars and I'm super careful, but I don't need to COMPOUND the paint to remove these I can stick with a very non-aggressive fine or ultra fine cut polish.

Make sense?


As for working by hand, take the leap and move up to machine polishing. I've been teaching detailing classes for 31 years now and giving this same advice for most of these years and I've never met anyone that REGRETTED buying a simple 8mm free spinning orbital polisher as their first polisher to get into machine polishing.

In fact, last year I wrote an article JUST for this topic and just for people like you. It's JAM-PACKED with helpful information plus a video that will show you how to use this type of tool and keep you safe but a lot faster and a LOT MORE efficient at polishing paint and then your wax or sealant will last longer plus the car will ALWAYS look better.


This is the 2nd time I've shared this thread on the forum since 6:00am this morning...


Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips


And as far as Meguiar's Ultimate Compound goes, it is a very good product. Check out this article,

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound History




Hope that helps and feel encouraged to join our forum, this is where I answer questions. Email is okay, but the forum is powerful.


Click here to join the AutogeekOnline.net car detailing discussion forum - THE best forum on the Internet


:)
 
Mike, thank you very much for the detailed response.

My main point would be regarding the machine polisher. Where I am currently living the condition's are far from suitable for what I need (on street parking, no access to a hose on the front street, etc). I currently have to drive miles to where my parents are living to use their very small driveway. Thus in terms of storage space I don't have much so have sacrificed the pressure washer and machine polisher until I move into somewhere larger of my own. I know this sounds a bit of a cop out but I'm moving slowly at a steady pace.

I actually like the process of polishing by hand. It's very relaxing and I can spend hours on the car and get to know every little imperfection. Obviously a machine polisher would be much quicker and provide superior results but for now I am working with what I have :).

Thank you very much again.
 
JohnFord said:
Mike, thank you very much for the detailed response.
Click to expand...

My pleasure. Never mind when I know the typing time investment will endure over time and others can read it.


JohnFord said:
My main point would be regarding the machine polisher. Where I am currently living the condition's are far from suitable for what I need (on street parking, no access to a hose on the front street, etc). I currently have to drive miles to where my parents are living to use their very small driveway. Thus in terms of storage space I don't have much so have sacrificed the pressure washer and machine polisher until I move into somewhere larger of my own. I know this sounds a bit of a cop out but I'm moving slowly at a steady pace.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're doing the best with what you have. :xyxthumbs:



JohnFord said:
I actually like the process of polishing by hand. It's very relaxing and I can spend hours on the car and get to know every little imperfection. Obviously a machine polisher would be much quicker and provide superior results but for now I am working with what I have :).
Click to expand...

Copy that. Here's what I would do if I had to work by hand, I would get a Nanoskin Hand Strap Applicator and instead of attaching a Nanoskin Autoscrub pad onto it I would attach a buffing pad onto it and then go crazy.


I share these Hand Straps Applicators in my book on boat detailing as well as the below article where I help people to "think outside of the box".


See post #8

How to restore a Barn Find!


watermark.php



:)
 
Continued....


In about 30 minutes from start to finish including taking the pictures, cropping, resizing, uploading and inserting, here's a brand new article showing how I would work by hand.


How to work by hand - tools of the trade by Mike Phillips



Here's the velcro strap snugged up around my hand and attached....

Work_by_Hand_06.JPG




And this picture should tell the rest of the story - now I'm ready to start hand waxing my car's paint.

Work_by_Hand_07.JPG





:)
 
Mike

Thank you again for taking the time to put that together.
Very much appreciated.

I have never heard of the nanoskin before so have only got MF applicator pads and a couple foam applicator pads (same ones that come with the liquid wax).

Would you suggest either of these would suffice until I obtain a nanoskin? I have always believed that for the most part that cutting is to be done with MF and finishing/waxing is done with foam.....don't shoot the messenger.

Thanks again
 
JohnFord said:
I have never heard of the nanoskin before so have only got MF applicator pads and a couple foam applicator pads (same ones that come with the liquid wax).

Would you suggest either of these would suffice until I obtain a nanoskin?
Click to expand...


I think there's some confusion.

You shared that working by machine is not an option.

What I did was simply share a "tool" that because it has velcro on onse side and a strap to hold it against your hand on the other side, INSTEAD of using it as it was intended to be used, (and that is to hold a Nanoskin Autoscrub Pad), but INSTED to attach WHATEVER pad you would normally hold between your thumb and 4 fingers and instead use this doohickey to hold the pad.

The thing on my hand is the "thing" that hold the pad you want to apply compound, polish or wax. You can attach any "machine buffing pad" to the thin on my hand and then use a machine pad by hand AND you don't have to "grip" a traditional pad between your thumb and 4 fingers.

Work_by_Hand_06.JPG



Make sense?


Or use a normal applicator pad and do it the way you're doing it right now.

All I was doing was showing you a different way to work by hand because you said working by machine was not an option.


:)
 
Mike, I must have been half asleep when I read your response so I do aplologise. I understand fully now what you meant in your post.

As a little bit of a tangent, would I be correct in saying that MF is more aimed towards compound/abrasives and foam is more suitable for glazes/waxes/non abrasives?

Thanks again. I'm learning a lot!
 
JohnFord said:
Mike, I must have been half asleep when I read your response so I do aplologise. I understand fully now what you meant in your post.

As a little bit of a tangent, would I be correct in saying that MF is more aimed towards compound/abrasives and foam is more suitable for glazes/waxes/non abrasives?

Thanks again. I'm learning a lot!
Click to expand...


Yes and read what I've written on the topic of Fiber vs Foam in this article

Here's what you need to get into machine polishing - Recommendations for a beginner by Mike Phillips


I'm always surprised that I'm the only person that seems to remembers the history of microfiber pads that also types.



:dunno:
 
Thanks again Mike. Having only just got into the detailing scene MF is the only real medium I have worked with in regards to applying polishes etc. I have never known a time before.

I think I will go ahead and hit the car with UC using a foam applicator pad primarily. Should the swirls and light marring not dissappear I will either try another application with the foam or switch over to an MF applicator. Following this I will apply UP and liquid wax.

I think the part that scares me most is the abrasion aspect, I know UC when applied by hand could be considered "mild". I have read tens of posts online on the subject, some folks are of the opinon that UC could be applied hundreds of time using a foam applicator without damaging the clear coat.

It's difficult to know what's what when reading opinions online as sometimes they are quite contradictory. I suppose this leads to paralysis by over analysis.

The main fear being 5 years down the road after say 2-3 corrections and the clear being compromised.

Hope this makes sense!
 
I asked this question about 7 years ago and todd helme answered me on the other site who at that time was a moderator of sorts:

"Most all cars have at least 50 microns of clear coat on them. So even if you compounded the hell out of your car on the initial paint correction, and removed 5 microns of paint, you could use a finishing polish (removes a micron) once a year for the next 45 years before you even had to worry about going through the clear coat."

If you wash your car correctly, and take care of it, you shouldn't have to polish more than once a year. So the question is moot.
 
•IMO:
-It’s not only how many times can the
(CC) paint be corrected before “going
through” the CC that has importance;

-It’s also paramount to not remove more
CC than the amount that the OEMs’ paint
engineers and their paint vendors recom-
mend. (Doing so will compromise the overall
integrity of the paint system...along with the
very real possibility of voiding whatever paint
warranty the vehicle came with.)



Bob
 
So much great information! . Thank you. I have read that most manufacturers recommend no more than 25%-30% of the CC due to UV protection, etc.
 
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