How Much Does Wax "Really" Do For Perfect Paint?

[knightmare]

I just took delivery of a 2014.5 Toyota Camry, Barcelona Red Metallic.
The car was delivered to the dealer in late July, so it is basically just a month old, sitting on the lot, from the factory in Ky., about 60 miles away from me.

Like a true Autogeeker, a simple wash wasn't enough for brand new paint.
I clayed with Opti-Clay, then applied a sealant coating, ( Sonus Ion ) since the car will be outside 24/7.

The difference in looks was dramatic. A LSP will make a difference, and yes some are quite better than others, but each one has a characteristic that appeals to certain needs, and tastes.

That is why there is so many out there, and the market continues to grow.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/84121-sonus-ion-paint-coating.html

 

[cfiiman]

You ask a good question and a question that comes up from time to time.

I've seen a few detailers in my life that have tried to argue that wax, or "sealant" or a "coating, you know, the LSP or Last Step Product isn't important or isn't a factor because the polishing step is where the actual magic takes place.

I disagree. A lot.


All pro-grade polishes I know of are dedicated products, that means they are dedicated for a single dedicated purpose, that is to in some fashion abrade the paint as part of a process to perfect it.

Most if not all of these products are also body shop safe. This means they contain no ingredients that would cause water to bead up like a wax because this would contaminate a body shop, (fresh paint environment), and this type of contamination can lead to surface adhesion problems. Surface adhesion problems result in what the average guy calls Fish Eyes.

What the above two things mean is that these pro-grade compounds and polishes don't have any ingredients in them that lasts. You see, wax lasts because it's NOT water soluble. Most compounds and polishes are water soluble, they are not meant to last, that is seal the paint with a sacrificial barrier coating of protection that will hold up to repeated washing, wiping and rain. No they are meant to perfect the paint and then be wiped off.

A wax, or a synthetic paint sealant or a paint coating, these are product that are designed to l-a-s-t.

Isn't that what everyone wants? A wax that lasts a long time?


So the results a high quality polish will create can and will look damn good. But these "appearance results" will diminish as the polishing oils wash off, get wiped off or get rained off or even vaporize off the paint.

By sealing the paint with a product designed to last, that is a product that is not water soluble, i.e. a wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating, you lock-in these appearance results.

Not only that... a quality wax, synthetic paint sealant or coating will create a UNIFORM appearance. Polishing doesn't do this, it comes close but under good lighting after wiping all the polish off you can see variable in the finished results. At least I can.

A quality wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating fixes this by creating a uniform appearance and that improves the results created by the polish.


That's 2 things a wax will do, make the results from polishing last over time and create a uniform appearance.


Here's one more thing a quality wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating will do and that's amp up the gloss, clarity, depth and shine. This is a no-brainer because any chemist that's worth his salt creates formulas that provide these types of aesthetic characteristics b-e-c-a-u-s-e that's what the market wants from a wax. By the word market I mean use human beings.


A wax, synthetic paint sealant or paint coating can also create a more slippery surface and a slick or slippery surface can at a minimum help to ward off micro-scratching, (in my humble non-engineer opinion), and the other bonus to this relates back to human beings like their paint to feel slippery.

I also think a quality wax, sealant or coating makes washing faster, easier and safer and this goes for drying too.



There's also some element of protection from UV rays plus just the fact that you have a sacrificial barrier coating on top of the paint means that anything that will attack the paint will first have to make this barrier coating sacrifice itself, that is give itself up before the offending attacker can get to the actual paint.

A quality wax, synthetic sealant or paint coating can also provide some level of masking or hiding by filling in microscopic imperfections to create a more perfect visual appearance and this is why applying a wax, sealant or coating can take the results from polishing to an even higher level.


I think that's 8 benefits I've listed that applying a quality wax, sealant or coating provides if you count how wax makes washing safer and drying safer as two benefits.


The above is all off the top of my head.... I may have missed a few key points and if I think of them later I'll add them to this thread.


Good qustion... I'm glad you asked it...


Now my buddy just picked up his 1932 Ford Deuce Coupe and I took some SUN SHOTS showing just how beautiful his freshly waxed ride looks. Hang tight and I'll show you plus document the paint is swirl free.

Wow thanks everyone for all the replies and great discussion, I loved reading all your posts. To Mike specifically, I remember reading two of your articles that kind of illustrated what I was getting at. They were the one where you did the Pinnacle on the Corvette and it was GORGEOUS. It definitely had that deep, wet, glassy whatever thing going on. Then I read an article you did on a Dodge Magnum, a dark blue one where you used the Mothers Pure Brazilian Carnauba, and the car looked GORGEOUS, with the exact same wet, glassy etc. look. So this is what lead me to ask the original post, because it seems it was more the stuff before b/c both finished products looked too similar to me. I mean if you would have switched the photos and said the magnum was the Pinnacle and the other cars were the Mother's would it have mattered? Maybe it was just the way photos on the internet looked, as you were there in person, but you referred to the Magnum as that wet, glassy look I believe, so is it kind of just splitting hairs at some point you think?

Love the discussion guys, thanks a lot.

 

[Bunky]

I think the notion of "all wax is the same" was conjured up by those too cheap (or too broke) to buy nicer waxes. Yes, there are good cheap waxes - there are also good expensive ones as well.

This is no different than the discussion about beer, wine, cigars, cars, and other number of opinion based subjects. Some appreciate the difference and others lack the perception to notice it. The latter should not think the former are delusional if they see no difference and each can be happy without claiming the other is wrong. There is a lot of junk talk that is only opinion and not fact.

 

[cfiiman]

Ok, I have another question for you experts. After reading all these replies about how the wax changes light, etc. which I totally get, what about a spray wax? Meaning lets say you put on that expensive beauty wax, but then say you wash it and put on your favorite "booster" spray wax, doesn't that "take away" from the expensive stuff you just put on? Seems like it would based on what I'm reading b/c it is another molecular level on top of the expensive stuff right?

So in this example, say you buy the Pinnacle Soverign or something similar, and then wash and top with Megs UQW, wouldn't that be the same as using a cheap wax and then washing and topping with UQW because the UQW is the LSP applied, or is it different?

 

[nubaseal]

You've got it right.

 

[DBAILEY]

Yes, you'll end up with the water behavior of the top LSP, but the way the combo of LSP 's affects the light will be different with different combos. The index of refraction and reflection will change at the boundary between two mediums.

 

[mwoolfso]

Ok, I have another question for you experts. After reading all these replies about how the wax changes light, etc. which I totally get, what about a spray wax? Meaning lets say you put on that expensive beauty wax, but then say you wash it and put on your favorite "booster" spray wax, doesn't that "take away" from the expensive stuff you just put on? Seems like it would based on what I'm reading b/c it is another molecular level on top of the expensive stuff right?

So in this example, say you buy the Pinnacle Soverign or something similar, and then wash and top with Megs UQW, wouldn't that be the same as using a cheap wax and then washing and topping with UQW because the UQW is the LSP applied, or is it different?

It very well could do just what you say.

 

[DBAILEY]

The light will go through all the layers of LSP and the clear coat. Not just that top LSP. The angle of refraction will be different at each boundary. The critical angle when total internal reflection occurs will be different between each boundary.

 

[Bunky]

The light will go through all the layers of LSP and the clear coat. Not just that top LSP. The angle of refraction will be different at each boundary. The critical angle when total internal reflection occurs will be different between each boundary.

Simply, if you put anything on any surface, not just paint, it can alter how light is absorbed/reflected based changing the appearance.

 

[DBAILEY]

Correct. Its all in the physics of light. Nothing we can do about it. Sometimes the combo's compliment each other to create a special look, sometimes it doesn't. Prima Amigo and then Menz Powerlock is an example of 2 LSP's that do something special together.

 

[slimnib]

The Junkman style "all wax is the same" crowd always seems to think the "conflict" lies in some believing wax will make your bad paint look great. If you put any wax on crappy paint - you just have waxed crappy paint. I don't think anyone who has been on a detailing forum > 5 minutes believes wax is the solution for bad paint. I don't really think anyone believes a certain wax will make bad paint look good - no more than makeup will make an ugly chick look good.

If the paint is perfect - you can see differences in waxes. There are also durability differences, application differences, and different hydrophobic properties.

I think the notion of "all wax is the same" was conjured up by those too cheap (or too broke) to buy nicer waxes. Yes, there are good cheap waxes - there are also good expensive ones as well.

You must have magic eyes. I was never able to see the difference between waxes. Now .polish or compound is a different matter. There one can see the difference most of the time.

 

[Guessless]

You must have magic eyes. I was never able to see the difference between waxes. Now .polish or compound is a different matter. There one can see the difference most of the time.

So you don't see the difference between an oily wax vs one with polymers vs one with higher nuba etc.?

In other words to you all waxes leave the same exact looks and feel on every color,dark or light, white or black?

 

[slimnib]

So you don't see the difference between an oily wax vs one with polymers vs one with higher nuba etc.?

In other words to you all waxes leave the same exact looks and feel on every color,dark or light, white or black?

Different colors do make a difference, however on the same- no difference in look, There is however, a difference in feel- smoothness, some waxes are smoother than others.

But then again. some people have superman vision and say then can tell the difference, so be it they can and I cannot. My loss.

 

[FUNX650]

So you don't see the difference between an oily wax vs one with polymers vs one with higher nuba etc.?

Wait a minute:

You can see:
-What it is...that makes a Wax "oily", or not "oily?
-Waxes' "polymers"?
-Waxes' carnauba %s?

OK.
Then you should be able to answer the following:

-What exactly is it...that makes a Wax "oily"?
-What are the polymers that are in Waxes?
-Why would there even be polymers in Waxes?
(Is, or isn't, this unavoidable?
-Why can't (or can?) a Wax with "higher nuba" be, as you say: "Oily"
-Are silicones polymers?

Bob

 

[nubaseal]

Oils can be natural oils. Some waxes mandate themselves to leave out any synthetic ingredients. Example - Victoria concours Red wax. Some add a few polymers to increase durability to this otherwise natural recipe. Example - Victoria Hybrid wax. Both are high carnauba waxes and both are oily by mandate to provide a very specific user experience and a certain look.

Then there are high carnauba waxes that are not oily as the mandate is to provide a sacrificial barrier that neither adds or takes away anything from the perfectly polished paint that you spent hours and days polishing. The idea is to somehow "lock" that look without adding anything to the finish and maintaining the optics as is. Example - Dodo Juice Supernatural Wax.

The moment you step into hybrid territory, some of them cross over from being a hybrid wax to a hybrid sealant ( wax with some part sealant to sealant with some part wax).

 

[FUNX650]

Oils can be natural oils. Some waxes mandate themselves to leave out any synthetic ingredients. Example - Victoria concours Red wax. Some add a few polymers to increase durability to this otherwise natural recipe. Example - Victoria Hybrid wax. Both are high carnauba waxes and both are oily by mandate to provide a very specific user experience and a certain look.

Then there are high carnauba waxes that are not oily as the mandate is to provide a sacrificial barrier that neither adds or takes away anything from the perfectly polished paint that you spent hours and days polishing. The idea is to somehow "lock" that look without adding anything to the finish and maintaining the optics as is. Example - Dodo Juice Supernatural Wax.

The moment you step into hybrid territory, some of them cross over from being a hybrid wax to a hybrid sealant ( wax with some part sealant to sealant with some part wax).

Just curious:
What is the bearing, if any, on your above posting...
If the carnauba wax is used as part of Wax-products'
carrier-system?

Bob

 

[nubaseal]

Bob, I am no expert. Just added what I think I know. I could be wrong.
Pretty much everything I know is a hybrid so it doesn't really matter.

 

[slimnib]

If you are happy with your choice of wax, etc, great. This conversation has developed a life it own.

 

[FUNX650]

Bob, I am no expert. Just added what I think I know. I could be wrong.
Pretty much everything I know is a hybrid so it doesn't really matter.

I'm no expert either...

There's an old saying that goes something like this:
"It's Greek to me!!" (taught to me by American teachers).

In that vein of thought...
"I'm just trying to make heads or tails" out of the question:
What does Wax really do for perfect paint; and the comments regarding that question posted on this thread.

[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrv_3ArW2Qs"]Idiom : I CAN'T MAKE HEADS OR TAILS OF IT! -my American friend- - YouTube[/video]

Bob

 

[Guessless]

So you don't see the difference between an oily wax vs one with polymers vs one with higher nuba etc.?

In other words to you all waxes leave the same exact looks and feel on every color,dark or light, white or black?

Ok Bob,
Before putting on the Proffessor Cap & Gown and start quizzing, it's worth noting that those were questions, with question marks right?

So where in there did you see that I made the following statements?:

Wait a minute:

You can see:
-What it is...that makes a Wax "oily", or not "oily?
-Waxes' "polymers"?
-Waxes' carnauba %s?



Bob

The answer is you didn't, but rather just made your own assumptions right?
That would render your questions Moot, wouldn't it?

Now,

-When you put a high Octane Gas in your car vs low Octane do you "see" the actual percentages and contents of each?

-Same question with engine oil, do you "see" the difference with different grades ? Do you "see" the Difference between Synthetic and conventional oil, or there isn't any? Do you actually "see" the contents?

-Same question with different wiper fluids, do you "see" the actual content, and the actual percentages of Alchol and other ingredients in them? The one for Summer vs the one for Winter, do you see the actual contents of each?

In any of the above, do you see a difference in performance?

Bob here too