How much Menzerna FG 400 to buff out a car?

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

How much Menzerna FG 400 to buff out a car?

Menzerna Fast Gloss 400

Over the weekend I buffed out a 1957 Chevy Belair, this is a larger car, see for yourself...

Today I measured a brand new full bottle and also the bottle I used for this buff-out and here are some pictures to show how much I used...


The bottle I used is on the right, you can tell because you can see white compound residue around the cap...

First I weigh a brand new, never been used bottle...

2.6 pounds, that's not 2 pounds and 6 ounces, it's 2.6 pounds so that's about 40 ounces, maybe 41 ounces...
One pound = 16 ounces
2 pounds = 32 ounces
Half pound would be 8 ounces, so .6 pounds would be about 9 ounces
(just guessing by doing the math in my head)


So 32 ounces plus 9 ounces would be 41 ounces.

Here's the bottle I used on the 1957 Chevy...

The used bottle weighs in at 2.2 pounds

So roughly speaking, .2 pounds would be 1.5 ounces so what's left in the bottle is roughly 33 ounces so I used 8 ounces of compound to buff out this 1957 Chevy.

It seemed like with the long buffing cycle and what appeared to be a long cutting cycle, the Menzerna FG 400 goes a long ways...


If my math is wrong, please someone feel free to check it and show where corrections need to be made.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[addysdaddy]

Never thought about doing a before and after weight on a bottle of product. Now I'm curious how much polish I actually use for a detail. Next time for sure.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Wow, you had me really confused for a minute, because using 8 oz of compound on a car didn't sound like going "a long ways"...then I realized 2.2/2.6 means you used a tad over 15% of the weight. Some error because we don't know the tare weight of the bottle (which means it looks like you used more than you did) and because the scale is rounding to the nearest 0.1 lbs. Since it's a pint bottle, 15% of 16 (fluid) oz would be about 2.4 fluid ounces, which sounds better.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

On page 50 and 51 of Renny Doyle's book, (as well as elsewhere in the book),

"How to start a home-based car detailing business"

He addresses the topic of knowing how much each detail job is costing your for products, that would include chemicals and wear-n-tear on buffing pads, etc.


Currently a 32 ounce bottle of Menzerna FG 400 is priced at $48.00 on the Autogeek.net store, not including shipping and taxes.


$48.00 divided by 32 ounces = $1.50 per ounce.


If I used 9 ounces of Menzerna FG 400 to buff out a 1957 Chevy Belair then my compound cost is $13.50


Any math whizzes please feel free to check my numbers as I'm not the best math student...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Wow, you had me really confused for a minute...

I had me confused for a minute and till do...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

For those reading this into the future, here's the write-up for this project...


New Menzerna FG 400 - One-Step Show Car Makeover

 

[SonOfOC]

2.6 pounds new bottle - 2.2 pounds used bottle = 0.4 pounds

or 6.4 ounces used.

$48.00 divided by 32 ounces = $1.50 per ounce
$1.50 x 6.4 ounces = $9.60 to compound the 1957 Chevy Belair

Anyhow, 3 things can be derived from Mikes review.
1) FG400 works extremely well.
2) A little product goes a long way.
3) $9.60 to compound a relatively large car with realtively hard clear is a good deal.

 

[OMRebel]

It's imperative to know the weight of the empty bottle first. When I want to track the usage of a product, I will transfer it to a clear bottle. Before transferring, weigh the empty bottle. Also, fluid ounces are a measure of volume and "traditional" ounces are a unit of mass. They are not synonymous.

I developed an anal retentiveness for accurate numbers in grad school.... drives the wife crazy.

Mike, you probably used more like $4. Not knowing the weight of the bottle, you probably spent 2-4 ounces of material at a price of $1.50/oz (less shipping & taxes). While we're getting technical, let's figure the depreciation on the pads, towels, and polisher.... kidding... b-school flashback.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

2.6 pounds new bottle - 2.2 pounds used bottle = 0.4 pounds

or 6.4 ounces used.

$48.00 divided by 32 ounces = $1.50 per ounce
$1.50 x 6.4 ounces = $9.60 to compound the 1957 Chevy Belair

Anyhow, 3 things can be derived from Mikes review.
1) FG400 works extremely well.
2) A little product goes a long way.
3) $9.60 to compound a relatively large car with realtively hard clear is a good deal.

Yeah, but Mike and you are using ounces of WEIGHT for the product used, while the product is sold by ounces of VOLUME. If it was water they would be equal, but compounds typically have a lot of solids in them which weigh more than water...just try hefting a pint of Menz PowerGloss vs. a pint of IP or FPII and you'll see that 16 (fluid) ozs of PG weighs a lot more than 16 ozs of IP or FPII (this is just a random example from when I bought my jugs of Menz back in the old days from CMA).

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Yeah, but Mike and you are using ounces of WEIGHT for the product used, while the product is sold by ounces of VOLUME.

That's why I took pictures of both bottles, one full/never used and the one I used and I figured you guys could figure out the details. :laughing:

I did the hard part, I buffed out the car and took the pictures. I can't be Math Teacher too, it's not my passion...

 

[Setec Astronomy]

LOL Mike, fair enough! So those 16 oz bottles sell for ~$34 regular price, meaning it's $2.125/fluid oz., so you used about $5 worth of compound, or about $3.75 if you bought it in the quart bottle (a little less since we're not factoring in the tare weight of the bottle).

I guess that's why in the metric system weight is in kilos and volume is in cc's or (milli)liters, because it's confusing here where an ounce can be volume OR weight.

EDIT: Thanks for doing this, it helps to answer the frequent newb question of "how much polish does it take/should I be using?". My usual answer is about an ounce for an average car, and a bit more for a larger vehicle...so maybe my standard answer is a bit low.

 

[Wendell Jarvis]

Mike, I will take that used bottle off your hands for ya, I love Menzerna's products !!

 

[Hoytman]

Mr. Phillips,
You bring up some good points about knowing how much product you're using to manage costs. I actually made a thread, if I recall correctly, where I specifically mentioned if anyone tracked product usage for giving clients and itemized bill. Someting that I felt some customers might ask for. I know I like to see an itemized bill when I take my car in for repair because I want to see what they did and what parts were replaced. Unfortunately, my thread didn't get much attention. If I recall, some didn't think it was that important. At the time I thought it was a legitimate thread.

Just before going to the Evansville get-together I purchased your book and the book by Renny Doyle. I began reading Mr. Doyle's book and it became quite clear that keeping track of materials (which are really expenses...duh) was very important to Mr. Doyle.

An observation:

When top pro detailers speak, it's usually because they have something important to say based on first hand knowledge and observation. I listen.rops:

 

[Vegas Transplant]

I had me confused for a minute and till do...

I'm lost ...but I get your point.

 

[psnt1ol]

On page 50 and 51 of Renny Doyle's book, (as well as elsewhere in the book),

"How to start a home-based car detailing business"

He addresses the topic of knowing how much each detail job is costing your for products, that would include chemicals and wear-n-tear on buffing pads, etc.


Currently a 32 ounce bottle of Menzerna FG 400 is priced at $48.00 on the Autogeek.net store, not including shipping and taxes.


$48.00 divided by 32 ounces = $1.50 per ounce.


If I used 9 ounces of Menzerna FG 400 to buff out a 1957 Chevy Belair then my compound cost is $13.50


Any math whizzes please feel free to check my numbers as I'm not the best math student...

Mike,

I just got your book and Renny's book last week. Pretty good read!!!!!

I grew up in the restaurant business so this concept is not foreign to me. We called it "cost per serving".

There is a easier way to figure the cost for this scenario without having to do all these conversion from lbs to oz to fl oz or having to know the weight of the empty bottle.

Use the ratio method:

$48(cost for the bottle) to 2.6 Lbs is X(in dollars) to .4(difference between full bottle and the used bottle) or

$48 / 2.6 lbs = X / .4 lbs or ($48 / 2.6 lbs)(.4 lbs)= X

The weight of the empty bottle is irrelevant because it cancelled out.

So.... the cost for buffing out the car is X = $7.38 (give or take $.10).

 

[OMRebel]

Use the ratio method:

$48(cost for the bottle) to 2.6 Lbs is X(in dollars) to .4(difference between full bottle and the used bottle) or

$48 / 2.6 lbs = X / .4 lbs or ($48 / 2.6 lbs)(.4 lbs)= X

The weight of the empty bottle is irrelevant because it cancelled out.

So.... the cost for buffing out the car is X = $7.38 (give or take $.10).

The original post was to figure out the amount of product used by weight (when the bottle was included in the weight). Therefore, the weight of the bottle is absolutely necessary. Nit-picky, but still needed.

Here's the best way to do it:
Buy some bottles: Meguiars 16 oz. Self Cleaning Dispenser Bottle, squeeze bottle, polish dispenser
Mark the bottles with 16 lines, 1 for each ounce.
Polish car
See how many ounces you used based on the lines
(You already know that a 32 ounce bottle at $48 is $1.50 per ounce)
Take the ounces used multiplied by $1.50. Booya - per unit cost. No scales involved.

I only like to use clear bottles when possible. It helps with knowing when to reorder supplies, but it also allows me to mark bottles. Also, my Rinse & Wash buckets are marked w/ a sharpie for each gallon so my ratios are right.

 

[Hoytman]

It's imperative to know the weight of the empty bottle first. When I want to track the usage of a product, I will transfer it to a clear bottle. Before transferring, weigh the empty bottle. Also, fluid ounces are a measure of volume and "traditional" ounces are a unit of mass. They are not synonymous.

It's not necessary to know the weight of the empty bottle.

You are correct. Fluid ounces ARE measued in volume, called a liquid ounce.

However, we were given a "traditional" unit of mass weight shown in pounds of a bottle filled with 32 fluid ounces of a liquid. In the full bottle we already know how many fluid ounces are in it; 32. Our only concern now is the mass weight of a full bottle and the mass weight of a partially full bottle.

Many liquids can weigh differing amounts when placed in the same container. If these liquids are placed in the same container their fluid amount is constant, that is their fluid ounces are constant, however, the mass weight of the full containers can vary depending on what's inside.

 

[Hoytman]

Mike,

I just got your book and Renny's book last week. Pretty good read!!!!!

I grew up in the restaurant business so this concept is not foreign to me. We called it "cost per serving".

There is a easier way to figure the cost for this scenario without having to do all these conversion from lbs to oz to fl oz or having to know the weight of the empty bottle.

Use the ratio method:

$48(cost for the bottle) to 2.6 Lbs is X(in dollars) to .4(difference between full bottle and the used bottle) or

$48 / 2.6 lbs = X / .4 lbs or ($48 / 2.6 lbs)(.4 lbs)= X

The weight of the empty bottle is irrelevant because it cancelled out.

So.... the cost for buffing out the car is X = $7.38 (give or take $.10).

:dblthumb2:

I agree that they cancel out. They are the same product inside, same bottle, same ingredients, and for the sake of measurements being regulated by laws, then we can safely assume they are filled with the same fluid ounces. (Let's not draw at straws here over a few +/- that are unknown.) We can then assume that an approximate mass weight could be indicated for each bottle by placing them on a scale that reads in pounds.

This allows us to simply use the numbers given, a "full bottle" weight, and "an amount used" bottle weight.

Provided they weight approximately the same when new, and I'm sure they are close as per the laws (a +/- amount is a given)...any closer and we're swallowing knats and straining at camels. If those two bottles are knat close at "full bottle weight" (and we can assume they are), then we can assume that the empty bottle weights (tare) are knat close and an uneeded number to figure this out.

This makes starting "full bottle" weight the most important number and the bottle weight, or tare weight (empty container), irrelevant. Usually a tare weight is only needed when truck, crate, or some sort of container weight is needed to be known. In this case it is not needed because we are using the total weight. (If this "full bottle" were a full truck load of something and we weighed the truck we would get a total (vehicle and load) weight called a GVWR, or gross vehicle weight rating.)

In either case, if you weigh a full bottle, or a full truck, you get one number...a total weight. If I dump some of the load in a truck and re-weigh the truck contain what is left of that load, you'll then get another total weight...this time a reduced number. Subtract the least from the most and you'll find out how much you dumped. The weight of the truck is irrelevant. Just another real world example.

We're not trying to be exact, rather, trying to work the numbers given to us. And there is only .4 pounds difference.

In that case, the ratio method works perfectly given the numbers on the scale in pounds.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Man this has been funny watching people try to get their head around this...of course you don't need to know the weight of the bottle...IF YOU KNOW THE UNIT WEIGHT OF THE PRODUCT. Since the goal was to try to find out what the cost of the polish used was, and the polish is sold by VOLUME, it is of no help to know what the weight of the product used when you don't know what its volume is. Therefore, in order to calculate the dollar value of the product used, you either need to know the unit weight per volume, or the weight of the empty bottle.

At any rate, I think we beat this to death already, Mike used roughly 2 fluid ounces, perhaps a tad more, which I guess is about what you'd expect for a large vehicle that required a lot of correction.

 

[FUNX650]

It's not necessary to know the weight of the empty bottle.

You are correct. Fluid ounces ARE measued in volume, called a liquid ounce.

However, we were given a "traditional" unit of mass weight shown in pounds of a bottle filled with 32 fluid ounces of a liquid. In the full bottle we already know how many fluid ounces are in it; 32. Our only concern now is the mass weight of a full bottle and a partially full bottle.

Many liquids can weigh differing amounts when placed in the same container. If these liquids are placed in the same container their fluid amount is constant, that is their fluid ounces are constant, however, the mass weight of the full containers can vary depending on what's inside.

Exactly!! :xyxthumbs:

How to distinguish (then convert) the differences between weight and volume
-Volume = How big
-Weight = How heavy

Now to conversion of a liquid volume>liquid weight
-For example purposes: Water (other liquids to follow).

First:
-Based on 1 US liquid gallon/water = 231 in3; 1 inch = 2.54 cm.
Second:
-US system of weight/mass = Avoirdupois (Avdp.)...
Where 1lb = 16oz
-Third (Known scientific fact):
Water at room temp. (77F/25C), and 1 atmosphere (air pressure at sea level)
has a density of 997.13 kg/m3.

-A few multipliers/conversion factors:
1 m = 100 cm
1 kg = 1000 g
1 L = 1.0567 US quarts (qt)
1 lb = 16 oz = 453.59 g

997.13 kg/m3 (x) 1000 g/kg (x) 1 m/100 cm3 (x) 1000 cm3/L = 997.13 g/L

-Converting to US Avdp. Units:

(997.13 g/L) × (1 lb/453.59 g) × (1 L/1.0567 qt) = 2.0803 lb/qt

1 quart (US Volume) = .0.9464 L (Metric Volume) = 2.080 lb/33.29 oz (Avdp. Wgt.)

1 fluid ounce (US Volume) = 29.57 mL (Metric Volume) = 1.040 oz (Avdp. Wgt.)


Using Mike's Menzerna "weigh-ins"...With Water as the "product":

-Full FG400: 2.6lbs = 41.6 oz...including Water-product and bottle/lid assembly
-32 oz of Water actually weighs = 33.2848 oz

-Using this method:
41.60 oz (-) 33.28oz = 8.32 oz; which = Too much, IMO...
For the ~ Weight/Tare of an empty 32oz Menzerna FG400 bottle/lid assembly...

That is: if the product in the Bottle is Water
-And, as it has been mentioned:
Bottle/lid assembly---Relevant/Not Revelant? Material/Immaterial?

Known scientific fact:
-Specific gravity (sg) of water = 1.0000 at 39.2° F/4° C
-The thermal coefficient of the expansion of water is:
0.00021 per 1° Celsius at 20° Celsius.

Without its MSDS in front of me at the moment...
-What then could be the ingredients/chemicals in Menzerna FG400...
That are different than Water...
That would alter/boost the Weight of this compounding-product solution/emulsion,
that's within its said Bottle?
-Is Water one of the ingredients?

I assume it has solvents.
Here's a couple:
-Naphtha's sg = .66477..."Lighter" than Water
-Kerosene's sg =.81715...same as above

I assume it has abrasives:
Here's a few:
-Alumina's sg = .961...Weighs ~ same as Water
Aluminum oxide' sg = 1.522..."Heavier" than Water
Kaolin's sg = 1.025..."Heavier" than Water

I assume it has many other: "compound" ingredients/chemicals.

-Once a person had the specific gravities of all FG400-ingredients/chemicals;
and, if the Chemists' FG400 formulation was never strayed from when blending;
then, the mathematical equations could be readily solved by plugging in those numbers;
with, finally, the weight/tare of FG400's bottle could be obtained as well...IMHO.

Yet...
-Will a 32oz bottle of FG400 allow a person to compound between: 4-5.3 vehicles...
Even if this task was performed per/M.P.'s skill-level?

But...
Then there's that ol': 'Thermal coefficient of the expansion of'...rearing it's mugly head...

Dang My Luck!!



Bob