How much would this be worth??

B6S4 said:
I had that car for 6 hours and completed the same job while the client waited and watched the work being performed. I'm assuming he is upset for being charged more and waiting longer for the same work.
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I can see this going downhill from here, but I'm presuming that you charged at least $200 as well? Because all the other professional prices that people quoted in this thread are over $200. So if the OP charges $200 but it takes him several times longer to do the same work because of his equipment, materials, and skill level, is he still not entitled to the same $200?
 
OK, well I feel like this story is really one sided. I am the "client" in question and I assure you I am in no way trying to cheat anyone out of money. I know that allot of time was put into the car and the pictures do look impressive. Now I don't like drama and I don't want to ruin the friendship. The friend who I was referring to is not affiliated with any car dealer. He is a member of some car clubs in the area that details car for fun. He was the one who had last detailed the car more than a year ago. Yes I did not keep up the car after he was done, and it did not get washed for about 5-6 months before I decided to get it detailed.

I was asking him about my car because it was talking a long time to get it done. I dropped it off on the 7th. He said that he had seen the work this guy did and was not impressed. So he had me ask him some questions.

I have copied and pasted the entire text thread so you can see what was said.

Caleb Hay dude what products are you using on the paint?
Platinum Reflections Meg 105, 205, hyper dressing, mother's detail spray, clay bar, liquid glass sealant, megs gold class wax.
Platinum Reflections Ccs pads, porter cable dual action polisher, that's what I can remember off the top of my head. Why?
Caleb Just wondering so I can keep it looking nice.
Platinum Reflections I'll give you a list of good stuff.
Caleb Cool... BTW how much do I owe you?
Platinum Reflections With what all I did on engine and outside, that's about 200 with the cost of materials. If you want, I can let you do the interior and finish the trim an
Platinum Reflections d it would be free, but I'll let you use my stuff and we can knock it out any time. The pads alone will cost me 60 to replace, but im not charging you.
Caleb Dude 200 for a single stage??? That's kinda high I was thinking 120-150 tops. I don't know why you used so many pads. Last time we did my car we only used one pad. That meg 105 is also for a car with clear coat. If you used that many pads you probily took off a lot of paint.
Caleb I talked to my detailing friend who works on R8's and he said that you probily ate the paint up. He said one maby two pads. He was the one who worked on the car last time and he said I had lots of life left on the paint.
Platinum Reflections Nah, the 105 was for the heavy stuff on the hood and roof, the 205 was for the rest. When I got the car, you could see primer under the paint around a to
Platinum Reflections n of body lines and near the edges of panels. The engine bay was 40 for the hours it took, the paint was 140, 20 for the extra towels, degreaser, and stu
Platinum Reflections ff it took to do right.
Caleb Im not trying to be rude just letting you know what he said. I'm not going to stiff you or anything.
Platinum Reflections I had to do more than half the door by hand because there was so like paint left around the body lines. Come see there car and I'll show you what I mean.
Platinum Reflections It was bad.
Platinum Reflections Btw, if he only used one pad, he totally risked your paint. One pad is only meant to do 2 panels unless it doesn't get dirty... And if it doesn't get dir
Platinum Reflections ty, your doing it wrong. Lol.
Caleb Ok cool, what kind of pads did you use?
Platinum Reflections Lake country ccs orange for heavy stuff, white for the light stuff, and gray to apply sealant and remove any swirls. I'm not charging you for them all th
Platinum Reflections ough. Single stage paint comes off when worked and it clogges pads up. If you don't change them, they eat your paint up like no tomorrow.
Platinum Reflections Then I used cotton swabs and foam swabs for all the nooks and crevices. Oxidation was everywhere.
Platinum Reflections Anything else you want to know? This turned into a huge project that I never expected. Lmao
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As you can see I never said I was not going to pay I just wanted to make sure he did not eat all my paint off. I don't want to pay for a new paint job atm.

This is copied off of our forum that can be forum here.

Platinum
Bronze + Silver + Gold + Meguiar's compounds with a heavy cutting pad to remove all heavy and medium scratching and oxidation, followed by polishing and swirl remover, then 2 coats of Liquid Glass or 1 coat of Liquid Glass and 1 coat of Meg's Gold Class Carnauba Wax for a deep, wet shine. Your car will need to be dropped off for the whole day as this will let me really pay maximum attention to getting everything out that I possibly can. This work will range from $140 and up depending on the condition of the paint, but you are getting a SHOW ROOM shine! Perfect for that big car show coming up! Comes with a FREE engine bay detailing.
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I understand my car was really bad and the price seems fair. More than I was expecting but it's still in the ballpark.

We never agreed on a price before we started which was a mistake on booth our parts. But my problem is less with the price and more the chance that I will have to repaint my car because the service done on the car was preformed incorrectly.
I see two serpent problems here.

1.) Is my car going to have to be repainted because the work done on my car was preformed incorrectly?

2.) And secondly, If he did make a mistake do I let anyone take their cars to him? Everyone in my club have see the pictures he is posting and want to get their cars done. If he made a mistake on my car I don't want my friends cars to be damaged.

If anyone wants to chime in and let me know if he did what he should have done that would be helpful. Again im not going to stiff anyone. I just want to make shure that the car is getting done the right way.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I can see this going downhill from here, but I'm presuming that you charged at least $200 as well? Because all the other professional prices that people quoted in this thread are over $200. So if the OP charges $200 but it takes him several times longer to do the same work because of his equipment, materials, and skill level, is he still not entitled to the same $200?
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FWIW, I charged well under $200 as the car did not take me that long to complete and was an easy job.
 
Well, obviously this is going to degenerate into a three way he-said, she-said, but in and of itself, the use of M105 and multiple pads does not infer any problems or risks to your paint.
 
B6S4 said:
Orange + M105 on single stage? :dunno:
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Yeah, why not? I'm not defending the OP, I just don't see the need for outrage at this combo. The before pics show water spots and a puke stain or something.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, why not? I'm not defending the OP, I just don't see the need for outrage at this combo. The before pics show water spots and a puke stain or something.
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M105 is an aggressive compound, but some people think it's just going to rip stuff apart. If you can nearly finish wax ready with M105 and 1 pad, I would say it would be safe even on single stage paint. However, properly using it is the key.
 
B6, I'm going to be honest... the going labor rate for the job being done is appropriate to $200 minimum. With materials, overhead to compensate for, and hourly labor rate, I don't see where asking for $200 for this type of work is unfair.

Job included:
  • Basic Interior Cleaning
  • 2 step Exterior Cleaning/protection
  • Engine Bay
A typical MINIMUM detail package starts at: $150 with a single stage correction polish, then typically another $50 to add a wax. That's wash, vacuum, rims, and exterior cleaning with either 1-step polish or wax, or an AIO wax. It would seem that the amount of work here had to involve possibly a clay, reconditioner, and sealant. As well as the engine bay which at the very least I charge $35 for, most detail shops charge $40-60. The amount of work here done was technically $250+ let's say $50 for the engine bay.

If the car took him that many hours to recondition, most detail shops charge their hourly rate on top of however long the estimate to recondition the vehicle was in. If he said 6 hours and it took him 12 hours to fix it, he at the very least could tack on another $120 onto this. However being as kind as he is, he did this for barely making compensation for his overhead in supplies. Even if the intended time frame to clean this vehicle was breached, the customer is already getting a rather voluminous discount the way it is.

Also, why would you criticize him based on his supplies and "auto zone supplies?" That's just rude to judge someones level of professionalism because of their supplies. you being a detailer shoudl know that, it's a pretty judgmental remark to make on him. Detailers take different amounts of time to clean cars, and it might have taken him longer especially because he's preping it for a showroom. Just my opinion, but the customer in this case is wrong to ask for a lowered price when already being given a $200 discount in the first place.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, why not? I'm not defending the OP, I just don't see the need for outrage at this combo. The before pics show water spots and a puke stain or something.
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Based on how soft and aged that particular paint is, Orange + 105 seems a little aggresive IMHO. Now the OP is stating that the paint is thin enough to see primer where as when I last saw the car, there was no such defect present. Just trying to get to the bottom of things.

Look, I'm not trying to rain on the OP's parade, but with the money comes responsibility and liability. If you're not experienced with something, don't take on the job. If you cause damage, you the detailer are ultimately responsible. Being that the OP is relatively inexperienced, I would hate to see him take on a high end client and ruin a paintjob.
 
B6S4 said:
Based on how soft and aged that particular paint is, Orange + 105 seems a little aggresive IMHO. Now the OP is stating that the paint is thin enough to see primer where as when I last saw the car, there was no such defect present. Just trying to get to the bottom of things.

Look, I'm not trying to rain on the OP's parade, but with the money comes responsibility and liability. If you're not experienced with something, don't take on the job. If you cause damage, you the detailer are ultimately responsible. Being that the OP is relatively inexperienced, I would hate to see him take on a high end client and ruin a paintjob.
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Both are very good points. It is always preached to start with the least aggressive method first. Proper technique using M105/orange pad can yield good results. If the OP knew that the paint was thin and could see primer, then he should have used a professional mindset and not use this combo in those areas. Your last statement is the most alarming and I hope the OP realizes this. I am not taking sides in this case because it doesn't involve me. I wish the best for all parties actually involved and that a very good lesson can be learned from this.
 
MrHandWash said:
B6, I'm going to be honest... the going labor rate for the job being done is appropriate to $200 minimum. With materials, overhead to compensate for, and hourly labor rate, I don't see where asking for $200 for this type of work is unfair.


Job included:
  • Basic Interior Cleaning
  • 2 step Exterior Cleaning/protection
  • Engine Bay
A typical MINIMUM detail package starts at: $150 with a single stage correction polish, then typically another $50 to add a wax. That's wash, vacuum, rims, and exterior cleaning with either 1-step polish or wax, or an AIO wax. It would seem that the amount of work here had to involve possibly a clay, reconditioner, and sealant. As well as the engine bay which at the very least I charge $35 for, most detail shops charge $40-60. The amount of work here done was technically $250+ let's say $50 for the engine bay.

If the car took him that many hours to recondition, most detail shops charge their hourly rate on top of however long the estimate to recondition the vehicle was in. If he said 6 hours and it took him 12 hours to fix it, he at the very least could tack on another $120 onto this. However being as kind as he is, he did this for barely making compensation for his overhead in supplies. Even if the intended time frame to clean this vehicle was breached, the customer is already getting a rather voluminous discount the way it is.

Also, why would you criticize him based on his supplies and "auto zone supplies?" That's just rude to judge someones level of professionalism because of their supplies. you being a detailer shoudl know that, it's a pretty judgmental remark to make on him. Detailers take different amounts of time to clean cars, and it might have taken him longer especially because he's preping it for a showroom. Just my opinion, but the customer in this case is wrong to ask for a lowered price when already being given a $200 discount in the first place.
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Maybe I just work for way too cheap;). I base my rates on a job by job basis. I charge based on what I feel is fair for the work needed and what will make the client happy. Being that this particular VW is single stage and did not give me any trouble, I priced the job accordingly. Additionally, the client is a friend and local VW enthusiast, I felt what I charged was more than fair.
 
While we're speculating, how do we know the paint is down to the primer? I can't see it in the pictures; the pinstriping is still there. The OP says it was there when he got the car, BS64 says it wasn't. Pretty hard to burn an edge with a PC. This is only going downhill from here...
 
Setec Astronomy said:
This is only going downhill from here...
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Agreed, I think the OP and the owner should work it out amongst themselves. I am only posting in here due to the owner of the car being upset about the situation and contacting me for advice. I have said what I needed to say and will stay out of this from here on out. I'm not here to start trouble, being a detailer for many years, I know everyone has to start somewhere. I wish the OP the best of luck in his future endeavors. :cheers:
 
B6S4 said:
Agreed, I think the OP and the owner should work it out amongst themselves. I am only posting in here due to the owner of the car being upset about the situation and contacting me for advice. I have said what I needed to say and will stay out of this from here on out. I'm not here to start trouble, being a detailer for many years, I know everyone has to start somewhere. I wish the OP the best of luck in his future endeavors. :cheers:
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Very Professional. :props:
 
B6S4 said:
Agreed, I think the OP and the owner should work it out amongst themselves. I am only posting in here due to the owner of the car being upset about the situation and contacting me for advice. I have said what I needed to say and will stay out of this from here on out. I'm not here to start trouble, being a detailer for many years, I know everyone has to start somewhere. I wish the OP the best of luck in his future endeavors. :cheers:
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By the way, :welcome:to Autogeek.
 
Caleb Hay dude what products are you using on the paint?
Platinum Reflections Meg 105, 205, hyper dressing, mother's detail spray, clay bar, liquid glass sealant, megs gold class wax.
Platinum Reflections Ccs pads, porter cable dual action polisher, that's what I can remember off the top of my head. Why?
Caleb Just wondering so I can keep it looking nice.
Platinum Reflections I'll give you a list of good stuff.
Caleb Cool... BTW how much do I owe you?
Platinum Reflections With what all I did on engine and outside, that's about 200 with the cost of materials. If you want, I can let you do the interior and finish the trim an
Platinum Reflections d it would be free, but I'll let you use my stuff and we can knock it out any time. The pads alone will cost me 60 to replace, but im not charging you.
Caleb Dude 200 for a single stage??? That's kinda high I was thinking 120-150 tops. I don't know why you used so many pads. Last time we did my car we only used one pad. That meg 105 is also for a car with clear coat. If you used that many pads you probily took off a lot of paint.
Caleb I talked to my detailing friend who works on R8's and he said that you probily ate the paint up. He said one maby two pads. He was the one who worked on the car last time and he said I had lots of life left on the paint.
Platinum Reflections Nah, the 105 was for the heavy stuff on the hood and roof, the 205 was for the rest. When I got the car, you could see primer under the paint around a to
Platinum Reflections n of body lines and near the edges of panels. The engine bay was 40 for the hours it took, the paint was 140, 20 for the extra towels, degreaser, and stu
Platinum Reflections ff it took to do right.
Caleb Im not trying to be rude just letting you know what he said. I'm not going to stiff you or anything.
Platinum Reflections I had to do more than half the door by hand because there was so like paint left around the body lines. Come see there car and I'll show you what I mean.
Platinum Reflections It was bad.
Platinum Reflections Btw, if he only used one pad, he totally risked your paint. One pad is only meant to do 2 panels unless it doesn't get dirty... And if it doesn't get dir
Platinum Reflections ty, your doing it wrong. Lol.
Caleb Ok cool, what kind of pads did you use?
Platinum Reflections Lake country ccs orange for heavy stuff, white for the light stuff, and gray to apply sealant and remove any swirls. I'm not charging you for them all th
Platinum Reflections ough. Single stage paint comes off when worked and it clogges pads up. If you don't change them, they eat your paint up like no tomorrow.
Platinum Reflections Then I used cotton swabs and foam swabs for all the nooks and crevices. Oxidation was everywhere.
Platinum Reflections Anything else you want to know? This turned into a huge project that I never expected. Lmao
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Question for everybody.

For me personally I dont ever rack on additional fee's because I have to use more materials (towels, pads, applicators, polish..etc) to get the job done: or if I destroy a few pads on a customers car I dont charge them for it. I see materials as a tax deductible business expense. Is it common practice to charge customers for materials you used to complete the job?
 
Lasthope05 said:
For me personally I dont ever rack on additional fee's because I have to use more materials (towels, pads, applicators, polish..etc) to get the job done: or if I destroy a few pads on a customers car I dont charge them for it. I see materials as a tax deductible business expense. Is it common practice to charge customers for materials you used to complete the job?
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Yeah, I think it is frequently for people who are not professionals. Kind of like, yeah, I'll tune up your car if you pay for the parts.
 
This thread was very educational. Not only in how to negotiate a price for services but also in how the internet works. Your customers have access to the internet too.
I hope everything works out for everyone.
 
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