How much would this be worth??

Interesting that all this took place in Orlando (my hometown and where i do most of my detailing) Hope none of this forum chatter will have current and future clients, of the two detailers mentioned, choosing a detailer for the wrong reasons
 
Very nice job!!! You made that car look great. Just be sure to tell the next customer up front how much it will cost and you will sort out those people who do not wish to deal with.
 
Question for everybody.

For me personally I dont ever rack on additional fee's because I have to use more materials (towels, pads, applicators, polish..etc) to get the job done: or if I destroy a few pads on a customers car I dont charge them for it. I see materials as a tax deductible business expense. Is it common practice to charge customers for materials you used to complete the job?

It seems unprofessional to tack on extra fees for materials like towels, pads, applicators, chemicals etc.

Some XMT polishing pad cleaner will restore most pads and applicators. The towels can go in the next load of laundry. And the polish should be part of the built in overhead of running an effective business.

In business you have to factor overhead and time into your price, and know what to charge from experience. For instance, does a contractor charge for a few extra nails after the house is built, or does he factor his materials into his bid?
 
yep, no worries. I am NOT a profession detailer... I just happen to do better work than the local shops do for my friends and do it for cheaper, and kept getting asked do it so I decided to make some money doing it and create my company for fun.

I work full time, go to school full time, and always have stuff going on so I took this job on telling him that I would do the work as I had the time. The engine bay took by far the longest of any engine bay ive done to date, even a beast of a V8 in a F-250 that was crazy muddy from years of hunting and mudding. idk why, but that crap didnt want to come off easily even after soaking the stuff in anything I had on hand like Meg's APC, Super degreaser, purple power, even went to the store and bought some engine detail spray and that seemed to work the best imho. I would have been done long before I finally finished had I not had to worry about any seam sealer or anything but was asked to get it off as well.

The paint was alot more tricky. I started with a white pad and M205. it removed SOME of the oxidation on the hood and roof, but the paint was still a pinkish color and hazy all over so I stepped it up to M105 on the hood and roof and kept the 205 to the doors and fenders where there was alot less correction needed.

As for the supplies, ya, Im a 21 year old guy who does this stuff for fun out of his garage. I have done friend's cars, stranger's cars, fleets, all that stuff and it's fun to me. I have to pay for school out of my pocket. I have a car payment. I pay rent. I am also saving up to buy a house once I finish my Paramedic Degree... so sue me if Im not into dumping tons of money on all kinds of stuff and just stick to the tried and true chems people review and rave about here on Auto Geek... btw, none of my stuff was bought at autozone, so its cool... but if it was... its still the same stuff. :props:

as for the primer being able to be seen... the car was dropped off at my house late at night as Caleb couldnt make it out any sooner so I couldnt inspect it till the next day. Upon inspection I started texting my customer about the issues and how crazy this car is compared to others... I honestly did not expect it to be in that of shape... and that "puke" stain on the fender was a tough SOB. lol

anyways, the primer was visible on the passenger door in a 3 inch section... right on a body line. and then again further down the body line. and then again just below the surface of the paint above that section on the part of the door that curves inwards to the trim under the door. I know for a fact that I did not burn it down to primer as I am not stupid enough to do that, did not use a pad tough enough to do so, and my PC would take FOREVER to eat away at it like that... so Idk what could have done it... maybe it was just always really thin and the constant oxidation and abuse was wearing it away? hell if I know.

I understand this paint is 19 years old and in rough shape so It would take some serious work, but I honestly was NOT going to go polishing till I saw zero defects across the whole damn paint job simply because I already saw primer in spots and there were paint chips across the whole body, as well as cracks in the paint.

It took so long because I am limited to a PC, and I did use the least aggressive technique first. Instead of just cutting it as fast as possible till I saw fresh paint and running with the money I sat in my chair and just went to work doing multiple passes with m205 until there was no more oxidation, streaking, anything as best as I could without going too far imho.

If I had known this job was going to take this long, cause so much stress between my customer (a guy I actually consider a friend/ really cool acquaintance), and myself, as well as cost him exactly that much, I would have turned him away.... but I was approached by a friend for a detail on an older car I had admired at numerous meets previous... and it didnt look that bad tbh... but then when the sun came up and I saw the paint and everything in the condition it was, and my customer already trusting me to get the job done and I dont like to give up or half ass stuff, so I got to work and tried my hand at it and it looks SO much better than it did previously.

I will admit that I have only done 1 previous single stage paint, and it was on an older car than this, but the paint was NOWHERE near as bad, as thin, chipped, oxidized, scratched, anything... and it took me all of 4 hours to polish it out and get it ready for a wax, and his paint was much easier to work as well.

The pricing I had written on that forum changes all the time since I started out charging next to nothing to get people to come try me out and was told I charge WAY too little. so it went up. same stuff, so it went up more. I dont update it as much as I should, and that is totally my fault.

I also have a quote ready for my customer before they even drop the car off, but I totally forgot since I am so busy with day to day stuff, plus he dropped it off after I had just gotten home from a 14 hour shift, plus running errands so I was pretty exhausted and it slipped my mind.

I contacted Caleb the entire time and kept him in the loop and told him how many pads I was going through (if you touch the paint, it comes off. this paint is so soft and brittle its not even funny!) and he told me "add it to my tab".

I am NOT going to re-use this pads on another car, because no matter how clean i get them, they will still have his paint in them.. I am also not able to re-use them on his car either as I am not stupid enough to use one or two pads on an entire car, regardless of whether its a single or double stage paint. I changed them out as they got clogged and wouldnt wipe clean any more even after soaking them in pad cleaner, dish soap, anything, so I chucked em...

I have since told him that I will gladly give him a free total car wash and wax next month, as well as redo any sections for free that he is not totally happy with. The car was viewed by no less than 30 people as we had family over and friends, and nobody thought it was the same car...

this detail added way over $200 to the value of this car, but it's whatever. Ill just have to be more picky with who I work for I guess. I harbor no ill will against Caleb and I still loving the little car!
 
Last edited:
I am not stupid enough to use one or two pads on an entire car, regardless of whether its a single or double stage paint.

Is using 1 or 2 pads on an entire car stupid? I was unaware of that.

What about doing a 1 stage polish to gain maximum gloss on nearly perfect paint?
 
Interesting thread for sure. Definitely gave me the chance to learn some stuff. :props:
 
I should clarify: a car in this condition that really needs paint removed.

also, I should clarify, it was a solid 6 or 7 hours behind the polisher doing light passes with the least aggressive technique, then the other hours where with me doing the spots around the primer or cracks or HUGE chips by hand in numerous stages to get out as much damage as possible. I have always been told even in reviews and write-ups all over that you should change the pad out for a fresh one every few panels or if it is visibly clogged. i'd rather be safe than sorry, but that's just me. I could be being too cautious.

I have never been presented with a car in this shape, and I have never had to go through so many pads to get results like this, so this is really a learning experience for me.

also, as far as charging for supplies: I have never charged for extra supplies before, but when I have to throw away 6 pads over the course of this detail, I am eating into any money I make (I dont really look to turn much of a profit to be honest, this is for fun and to challenge myself)... also, if you read the very end of my statement, I say that I am not charging him for the pads... It's not like I sat down and intended to charge him for stuff I was using, I just happened to put that there at the time.
 
It seems unprofessional to tack on extra fees for materials like towels, pads, applicators, chemicals etc.

Some XMT polishing pad cleaner will restore most pads and applicators. The towels can go in the next load of laundry. And the polish should be part of the built in overhead of running an effective business.

In business you have to factor overhead and time into your price, and know what to charge from experience. For instance, does a contractor charge for a few extra nails after the house is built, or does he factor his materials into his bid?

I always factor in overhead or chemicals/polishes/waxes in my details but the amount used is so little it never adds much if anything to the over all cost so I charge accordingly. Realistically you only use about $2-4 worth of product per detail so its not like we are really making or losing out on anything.

I am NOT going to re-use this pads on another car, because no matter how clean i get them, they will still have his paint in them.. I am also not able to re-use them on his car either as I am not stupid enough to use one or two pads on an entire car, regardless of whether its a single or double stage paint. I changed them out as they got clogged and wouldnt wipe clean any more even after soaking them in pad cleaner, dish soap, anything, so I chucked em...

You are throwing away money if you trash pads just because they have a little staining on them. Pigment transfer is just that. Having a little color on your pads after cleaning them doesnt mean that there is still paint in the pad or they are clogged. If you really do throw away pads like that, do the community a favor and post them online cause I know I or anybody else will take them off your hands. Pads are trashed when the foam disintegrates or the velcro falls off
 
Wether or not you did more for less is your fault, you set a price that the client agreed to should be end of story regardless. Next time don't sell yourself short. Also if someone is going to take their car to a "non-professional detailer" then in their best interests they should take pics of their vehicle before drop off and get a quote in writing. Also for adding costs to a set price is unconstitutional!!! you are the "detailer" you are responsible for estimating for the specific job at hand regardless of any hurdle you run into, we all have lost money on a detail here and there but you can't charge more thats just a punk move ( charles barkley pun to lebron james haha) imo. Anyway to the detailer good luck with school and making money on the side detailing just take your time and let customers know you do it as an enthusiast. To the "client" best of luck with the car. Hope you two could still be friends. Just my .02
 
What are the chances that the orig owner and previous detailer would all chime in. :props: it's like that rare chance when a guy calls into a radio station and unknown to him his wife is on the other line and they get into it. Only diff, this seems real!

Best thread ever!
 
and they didn't even hit each other over the head with chairs :props:
 
This is to the customer.........

Im glad your posted and now we can see why you were concerned because your other detailer instilled some fears in you about his skills and abilitys but,after reading this entire thread i think were unfounded.

He didnt take too much paint off, in fact he was very careful not to as he noticed the thin paint on the edges and informed you from the very beginning. That was most likely caused by a rotary buffer that he did not even use. He also very carefully did those areas by hand .

Yes you may need a paint job down the road in those areas and it will not be his fault .

Personally I would not touch a car that had thin areas like that because you know its going to be a problem later on .

A rotary buffer may be twice as fast and thats why this detail took much longer , but a rotarty will also risk taking off more paint if not used very carefully .

He also said he detailed your engine where as the original detailer did not , so of course its going to be more money . I hope I got that part right , thats how I read it

The fact that you did not even wash your car for 5/6 months says alot about the condition of your paint . You must wash your car and keep it after its been polished or it will oxidize quickly again and this will not be the detailers fault but your own.

Your current detailer sounds like he took extra care and time on your vehicle and is not charging too much , if anything too little!

So please pay him the 200 and be happy your car looks so nice ! You got a killer deal IMO!
 
OK, so I have the car back now. I was never going to stiff anyone. I paid the $200, I don't really feel like it was a $200 job but that's my bad for not getting a price in writing up front. The car looks good but not amazing, its mostly little things like he did not really do the door jams like I had asked, and the shine in the engine bay is super oily and sticky and allot of the molding has red wax buffed into it. It's been a good learning experience for me and I don't hold anything ageist the OP.

That being said I think he needs some more practice before he does any more paint correction, especially on signal stage. I will not be taking any more of my cars to him, not just because of the price but the drive (1.5 hours) and the obvious lack of experience. I know everyone has to start somewhere but if you don't know you can do a job you should let the owner know prior to starting and maybe comp or give a deep discount for the learning experience. I was told up front that he had experince with single stage and he said he had lots of experience when I picked the car up last night when I asked him if he had ever done one before. I cannot recommend him to anyone and if asked I will let people know that I think the work is still amateur.

My main fear was that he took off allot of my paint. I am still going to check the paint with my detailer. But what's done is done. Hakuna matata...
 
OK, so I have the car back now. I was never going to stiff anyone. I paid the $200, I don't really feel like it was a $200 job but that's my bad for not getting a price in writing up front. The car looks good but not amazing, its mostly little things like he did not really do the door jams like I had asked, and the shine in the engine bay is super oily and sticky and allot of the molding has red wax buffed into it. It's been a good learning experience for me and I don't hold anything ageist the OP.

That being said I think he needs some more practice before he does any more paint correction, especially on signal stage. I will not be taking any more of my cars to him, not just because of the price but the drive (1.5 hours) and the obvious lack of experience. I know everyone has to start somewhere but if you don't know you can do a job you should let the owner know prior to starting and maybe comp or give a deep discount for the learning experience. I was told up front that he had experince with single stage and he said he had lots of experience when I picked the car up last night when I asked him if he had ever done one before. I cannot recommend him to anyone and if asked I will let people know that I think the work is still amateur.

My main fear was that he took off allot of my paint. I am still going to check the paint with my detailer. But what's done is done. Hakuna matata...


Caleb,

Get ahold of me Friday afternoon, I'll do what I can to make the car better for Saturday.
 
Judging by the pictures, $200 is a steal for what he did, no matter how long it took him. As far as taking off a lot of paint, I don't know how else you would make the car look as good as it did in the pictures without removing a lot of paint. The paint was in horrible shape, and in order to remove the oxidation and "puke stains", a lot of paint had to be removed. Just my opinion.
 
>I am still going to check the paint with my detailer. But what's done is done.

Don't be surprised if your regular detailer has issues with what was done. That's almost to be expected. If only to reinforce the wisdom of sticking with your regular guy.

It's just building/maintaining a business. What would your regular hairdresser, mechanic or lawn guy say if asked to critique someone elses work? Especially knowing too much praise may cost him a client?
 
This whole situation would've been avoided if both people had communicated better before the job was started, the seller and the customer can both be wrong. Regardless, for the amount of work that was done, I think that 200$ was a fair price and that you would be hard pressed to find a better deal for that amount of work unless the detailer is a very close friend of yours.
 
This thread has 3 stories, and nobody seems happy. Personally, I refuse to believe some of these stories without pics. Here my take/advice on the situation. I attempted an objective approach, however no-one can be without their opinion.

OP:
You did a good job and the results show a desire to do great. The results you show do speak for themselves. Next time I would recommend not adding pads and what not as add-ons for the price. Just give an estimate with all that figured in. If you want to charge an amount, just stick to your guns and tell the customer that is what you will have to make for the work and consumables required. $200 is cheap for the overall turnaround in that car. Next time make sure to finish up the little bits (if this is true).

Owner:
That job for the correction alone is worth more than $200. If your regular detailer gives you better results for less, he's cheap (not necessarily a bad thing). However I can understand being disappointed with the little things you mentioned. This would be where the "detailing" come in for detailing.
The OP most likely did not damage the paint with M105 and an orange pad using a PC. The only way he did damage is if your paint was already near failure, in which case you'd have problems sooner or later. I've seen wool pads used on a rotary on a single-stage paint that is more valuable than the car itself. Oh, and take care of your car instead of expecting miracles from a detailer twice a year; especially if you want to show it. This could include taking your car to your regular detailer for a regular monthly maintenance.

B6S4:
I'm sorry, but if you can do pull of that kind of a turn-around on single stage paint with one pad you either have a pad cleaner or you are doing something that is not recommended. However, through the parts of the thread that I read you were relatively professional, which takes some control. Kudos. Like I already said if you can produce those same results (or better) and charge $1xx. . .Dude, you aren't charging enough! Although given only what I've read here I simply have to wonder if you are doing something that would be considered sketch in the detailing world (not accusing, it just raises flags). As I have not seen any of your work/process I obviously have little knowledge on this matter.

In my experience, disqualifying another party with a limited knowledge of the situation (basically without actually being there or seeing the results) is simply unprofessional.
 
i cant help but to think of how awkward that exchange was. I'm guessing it went like this:

Detailer=D
Owner =O
D - So heres your keys...

O- oh yeah thanks. So that was $175 right?

D- Ahh actually it was $200

O- Oh right.... You take plastic?

D- Umm no.

O- Oh. lets see 100, 150, 170 190, 210

D Thanks

O- Dude that wasnt a tip, you owe me $10.

D Oh right. I got a ten right here

D So all's well that ends well right.

O (doing a once over as he walks around the car) Sure, what ever

D Hug?

O ahhh what the hell
 
Back
Top