How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results

How would Menzerna Top Inspection compare to these other options?

Any idea of the chemical composition of Menzerna Top Inspection?
 
merlin said:
How would Menzerna Top Inspection compare to these other options?
Click to expand...

Like Erasure it's specifically made for working on car paint.

IPA and MS are not, at least not in the context of this topic.


merlin said:
Any idea of the chemical composition of Menzerna Top Inspection?
Click to expand...

Nope, at least not without doing research.


:)
 
merlin said:
How would Menzerna Top Inspection compare to these other options?

Any idea of the chemical composition of Menzerna Top Inspection?
Click to expand...

Not yet...but its description says it's water-based, has no silicones, no fillers, only cleaning agents.
If someone that has Menzerna's Top Inspection, and requested the MSDS with their shipment, would reply....


Besides IPA, Mineral Spirits....Other paint inspection options I've used with excellent results:

Optimum Power Clean @2:1
Groit’s Paint Prep
3M Prep Solvent
DuPont PrepSol
Wurth Clean Solve

:)

Bob
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Odorless Mineral Spirits
MS003.jpg


Mineral Spirits are another option for chemically stripping an automotive finish, from my discussions with chemists on this topic, odorless Mineral Spirits should be chosen as the process for removing the odors is actually removing a lot of nastier substances through further refining of the product. Mineral Spirits will tend to wipe easier than most other options and leave a more clear finish.

Percent Volatile
When discussing Mineral Spirits, the idea has been brought up that Mineral Spirits may leave behind a film that could, like compound or polish residues, mask defects and thus defeat the purpose of stripping the finish after correction work. I brought this up with two of my chemist friends and they both said that it's not an issue, but if you want to be sure, choose a brand of Mineral Spirits that states the "Percent Volatile" is 100%

Here is the MSD Sheet for the Klean-Strip Odorless Mineral Spirits. I have circled the "Percent Volatile" percentage.

Percent Volatile
PercentVolatileMS.jpg




Here's a generic MSD sheet for IPA as I could not find one that was specific to the Walgreen brand, but chances are very good all quality brands of IPA are similar to the "Percent Volatile" figure below, which is greater than 99% or >99

Percent Volatile
PercentVolatileIPA.jpg



FWIW
My colleague stated that Mineral Spirits will tend to penetrate deeper into automotive paints, but it's safer than IPA.

Again, DON'T chemically strip FRESH PAINT as it has not finished fully cross-linking, drying and hardening and you risk harming the paint.


All Purpose Cleaners and/or Degreasers
On the topic of using All Purpose Cleaners and/or Degreasers for chemically stripping paint, the consensus is that the more simple the product, (Products specifically formulated for this procedure or IPA or MS), are safer and preferred.

All Purpose Cleaners and Degreasers are more complex in their formulas in that theycontain more ingredients to give them the ability to clean or dissolve a wide spectrum of substances like grease, oil, road grime, etc. It's this expanded ability to dissolve a wide spectrum of substances that make All Purpose Cleaners and Degreasers excellent for cleaning things like engine compartments but for this same reason makes them riskier to use on a delicate, clear coat finish where they can stain or dull paint.


Again, I wrote this article because it's a reoccurring topic on detailing discussion forums and I couldn't find any real substantial article on the topic or the process. I've done my best to make sure the information presented is correct to my knowledge.


Personal thoughts on inspecting correction work...
I tend to use a combination of all of the above, I don't have an allegiance to just a specific product or process, but instead which product I will use may depend upon what I'm trying to accomplish, or even simpler... what's closest to my hand at the time I'm working on a project.


Personal thoughts on removing previously applied waxes or paint sealants...
My personal opinion and habit is to use a light polish or paint cleaner to remove any previously applied waxes or paint sealants to get down to a fresh base.

Not only will a quality light polish or paint cleaner effectively remove any previously applied wax or paint sealant, it will also create a clear, high gloss surface perfect for application of wax or paint sealant. This is what I call working forwards in the process.

For those that are concerned about proper bonding of a wax or paint sealant to the paint due to any trace residues left behind, see my article,


Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding



:)
Click to expand...

That's all I use to strip my cars to detail.
 
Witchdoc said:
That's all I use to strip my cars to detail.
Click to expand...


I learned about using MS from the chemists at Meguiar's and they are some of the best at what they do...

I too like how it wipes and it seems to do a really good job of removing any polishing oils off the paint.

A guy can get crazy if he wants and strip using,

MS
IPA
Detergent Wash
etc.


As long as you're not re-introducing marring into the paint if these stripping steps are done before application of LSP that's the main thing.


:)
 
re: "Mineral Spirits are another option for chemically stripping an automotive finish, from my discussions with chemists on this topic, odorless Mineral Spirits should be chosen as the process for removing the odors is actually removing a lot of nastier substances through further refining of the product."

Compared to odorless MS, I've found the "smelly" mineral spirits to be more effective at removing waxes, oils, and adhesive residue from wood, prior to finishing. With wood, you can actually see how effectively it's removing the residue because you can see the parts of the wood darkened from the residue actually disappear and match the rest of the wood.

I looked into this once (wondering why), and what I found was the process of making odorless MS less smelly removes (among other things) most of the toluene and xylene (smelly, and very toxic parts), but those are very effective at removing oils (and wax and adhesive residue if I recall). I didn't take it much further since that seemed to explain why the smelly MS seemed to be more effective than the odorless.

This doesn't contradict what Mike wrote ("the process for removing the odors is actually removing a lot of nastier substances through further refining of the product"), but makes a different point about cleaning effectiveness. The odorless is less toxic though.

Mike, any chance you can run this by your chemist friends, to see if they think it's plausible that smelly MS is more effective at cleaning (oils, waxes, and/or adhesive tape residue) due to the presence of the toluene and xylene? Who knows, maybe the info I found was completely wrong.

PS, any rags soaked with MS should be laid flat, preferably outside and away from anything, until completely dried. They can spontaneously combust.
From a mineral spirits MSDS:
"NOTE: Under certain circumstances, absorbent materials soaked in this product and heaped in a corner can undergo spontaneous combustion. Always dry used absorbent materials thoroughly before discarding."
 
SR99 said:
This doesn't contradict what Mike wrote ("the process for removing the odors is actually removing a lot of nastier substances through further refining of the product"), but makes a different point about cleaning effectiveness.
Click to expand...

I agree. Some good word-smithing there... :)



SR99 said:
Mike, any chance you can run this by your chemist friends, to see if they think it's plausible that smelly MS is more effective at cleaning (oils, waxes, and/or adhesive tape residue) due to the presence of the toluene and xylene?
Click to expand...


Just from a common sense, big picture point of view, it sounds very plausible but... the even bigger picture is washing and waxing your car should be fun and/or profitable, not rocket science and dangerous.

I always try to accommodate requests for help or information from everyone, at the same time I like to only call in favor when it hits a certain threshold. Next time I'm in a position to ask your question because I'm in the position, then I will as I will remember this discussion. But I'm not going to initiate a phone call or an e-mail just because of it.

I'm a huge fan of KISS approaches, that is Keep it Simple Simon. In my life I've already been exposed to way too many nasty solvents and now days I like to try to work a little safe and the Lord willing, maybe live a long life, I know my son and my fiancé would like this...

At some point everyone can figure out an approach that works for them when it comes to taking care of their own cars or their procedures for taking care of customer cars, I like to try to keep it simple. An example is the most complicated automotive device I ever want to own is an HEI ignition system.

I don't mind learning about specific application procedures and then sharing them with others to showcase a company's product, there's plenty of examples of this on this forum already but for general practice, simpler tends to end up being better, at least for my preferences...


Good question though...


:dblthumb2:
 
Wow, there is some really great information here. Mike must be part machine to not only put his thoughts, and ideas into words here but illustrations too. Very time consuming. I do have a question and I hope I didn’t miss the answer if it was already asked and answered.
Does it make any difference in using either the IPA or MS method on single stage, non clear coated paint?
 
After reading through this thread, a thought came to me that maybe one could use 1 ounce of ONR mixed with 31 ounces of water in a spray bottle. Dampen a microfiber cloth with the mixture, mist the area you want to clean and wipe it off. Would this work?
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Odorless Mineral Spirits
MS003.jpg


Mineral Spirits are another option for chemically stripping an automotive finish, from my discussions with chemists on this topic, odorless Mineral Spirits should be chosen as the process for removing the odors is actually removing a lot of nastier substances through further refining of the product. Mineral Spirits will tend to wipe easier than most other options and leave a more clear finish.

Percent Volatile
When discussing Mineral Spirits, the idea has been brought up that Mineral Spirits may leave behind a film that could, like compound or polish residues, mask defects and thus defeat the purpose of stripping the finish after correction work. I brought this up with two of my chemist friends and they both said that it's not an issue, but if you want to be sure, choose a brand of Mineral Spirits that states the "Percent Volatile" is 100%

Here is the MSD Sheet for the Klean-Strip Odorless Mineral Spirits. I have circled the "Percent Volatile" percentage.

Percent Volatile
PercentVolatileMS.jpg




Here's a generic MSD sheet for IPA as I could not find one that was specific to the Walgreen brand, but chances are very good all quality brands of IPA are similar to the "Percent Volatile" figure below, which is greater than 99% or >99

Percent Volatile
PercentVolatileIPA.jpg



FWIW
My colleague stated that Mineral Spirits will tend to penetrate deeper into automotive paints, but it's safer than IPA.

Again, DON'T chemically strip FRESH PAINT as it has not finished fully cross-linking, drying and hardening and you risk harming the paint.


All Purpose Cleaners and/or Degreasers
On the topic of using All Purpose Cleaners and/or Degreasers for chemically stripping paint, the consensus is that the more simple the product, (Products specifically formulated for this procedure or IPA or MS), are safer and preferred.

All Purpose Cleaners and Degreasers are more complex in their formulas in that theycontain more ingredients to give them the ability to clean or dissolve a wide spectrum of substances like grease, oil, road grime, etc. It's this expanded ability to dissolve a wide spectrum of substances that make All Purpose Cleaners and Degreasers excellent for cleaning things like engine compartments but for this same reason makes them riskier to use on a delicate, clear coat finish where they can stain or dull paint.


Again, I wrote this article because it's a reoccurring topic on detailing discussion forums and I couldn't find any real substantial article on the topic or the process. I've done my best to make sure the information presented is correct to my knowledge.


Personal thoughts on inspecting correction work...
I tend to use a combination of all of the above, I don't have an allegiance to just a specific product or process, but instead which product I will use may depend upon what I'm trying to accomplish, or even simpler... what's closest to my hand at the time I'm working on a project.


Personal thoughts on removing previously applied waxes or paint sealants...
My personal opinion and habit is to use a light polish or paint cleaner to remove any previously applied waxes or paint sealants to get down to a fresh base.

Not only will a quality light polish or paint cleaner effectively remove any previously applied wax or paint sealant, it will also create a clear, high gloss surface perfect for application of wax or paint sealant. This is what I call working forwards in the process.

For those that are concerned about proper bonding of a wax or paint sealant to the paint due to any trace residues left behind, see my article,


Miscible and Immiscible - Wax and Paint Sealant Bonding



:)
Click to expand...
RTU or dilute this as well, since it says its a safer alternative to Alcohol?
 
psynx said:
RTU or dilute this as well, since it says its a safer alternative to Alcohol?
Click to expand...


When using MS you use it straight out of the can.


Avoid the environmentally versions as they look like milk/water and don't work well at all. (First hand experience). Stick with the one I pictured, it's easy to find and works well.



Sorry for the late reply...



:)
 
TOFAST4U2C said:
Wow, there is some really great information here. Mike must be part machine to not only put his thoughts, and ideas into words here but illustrations too. Very time consuming.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the recognition. This was an article I never wanted to read but became compelled to due to all the inaccurate information being foisted upon people unwilling to do the research and write the article.

:props:

TOFAST4U2C said:
Does it make any difference in using either the IPA or MS method on single stage, non clear coated paint?
Click to expand...

Very good question.

If the paint and car in question are antique, classics, or special interest I would avoid introducing a solvent to single stage paint. It's too porous and will absorb the solvent.

IF this is a new car with single stage paint, like some new cars have single stage white paint, then go for it. My guess is the safest route would be the weak dilution of IPA.



Bill220 said:
After reading through this thread, a thought came to me that maybe one could use 1 ounce of ONR mixed with 31 ounces of water in a spray bottle. Dampen a microfiber cloth with the mixture, mist the area you want to clean and wipe it off. Would this work?
Click to expand...

IF the goal of wiping with ONR is to leave a residue free surface then you might be fighting yourself as ONR contains gloss and shine ingredients...

Note the word "shine" in the product description.

Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine


Rocket Science!

rocket-science.jpg




:laughing:
 
Can Ethyl Alcohol be used instead of Isopropyl Alcohol?
 
Why would you even use ipa, ms etc. Just so wax/sealant adheres better? After reading this article . So usually when using ipa's you are using it before the compound polish process or after? And if so is it necessary to use ipa's on every car done before waxing /sealing? Even on a 1 step detail afterwards and then maybe adding a coat of handwax?

Just wanting clarification as to what ipa is so important and what state is it meant for? thanks alot.

Mike i appreciate the indepth lessons you give ! way to spread the wealth buddy! Godbless
 
sparklingwater said:
Why would you even use ipa, ms etc. Just so wax/sealant adheres better? After reading this article . So usually when using ipa's you are using it before the compound polish process or after? And if so is it necessary to use ipa's on every car done before waxing /sealing? Even on a 1 step detail afterwards and then maybe adding a coat of handwax?

Just wanting clarification as to what ipa is so important and what state is it meant for? thanks alot.

Mike i appreciate the indepth lessons you give ! way to spread the wealth buddy! Godbless
Click to expand...

I use a 12% ipa post compound/polish 1step, 2step or 3 step. I use it to remove any remaining residue and or oils in the compound polish. So whatever wax or sealant bonds to straight paint and does not have anything inbetween. Some products like opticoat if you arent using optimum polishes and compounds will not bond correctly and you wont get full bod or effect of the product. To add to that anything that I opticoat I normally mix a higher ipa mix around 14-15%. Some people are more experianced and braver than me and I have read about them mixing much higher than that even...
Hope that helps.
Ipa wipe down post compound/polish will also help for a top inspection to make sure your polish or compound isnt just filling a swirl and making it very hard to see.
Mikes mixing thread is a lot of help especially when the store is out of your normal % aged isopropoline alcohal.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using AG Online
 
After reading this entire thread, why not use one of the specific products design to remove residual oils such as Eraser, Top Inspection or GG Pre Wax Cleaner? These products don't carry the same warnings and dangers as diluted IPA or MS. Am I missing something? IMO, why be a penny wise and a pound foolish if there is even a remote chance of causing harm to the paint.
 
I've heard of a number of pro detailers that use a mix of window cleaner and IPA for final wipe down. The theory is that the window cleaner provides lubrication as to not instill new marring in the paint as well as keeping the IPA from flashing to rapidly.

Here's the mix used:

16 OZ Window cleaner--alcohol based not ammonia based
8 OZ 70% IPA
8 OZ distilled water

Does this make sense??
 
Hi mike I have a query. Did u find the temperature of diluted product higher than IPA or purified water separately?
Because when I diluted, the mixture in spray bottle felt warmer than it should have been. Looking forward to your input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top