How to seal a brand new car?

[carenthusiast]

Asking for assistance is great, BUT, you have to be willing to be open minded and not be so defensive.

"I have spent at various times greater than thousands of dollars on care care kits and products". Why not $50 on a DA now?

Just seal it now for the Winter.
Save up.
Buy a DA.
1st polish will remove whatever sealant you will be putting on it for <$20.

Someone suggested Duragloss 105. It has great reviews (durability + gloss), but on their own site they sell paint correction products that remove oxidation and water damage: now one of the things those products won't remove (according to Duragloss) is their own DG105.
I guess DG105 is really good to use as a sealant, but it also means whatever I seal with it will stay there for a long while.
SO, it just makes sense to correct and make the best of the paint before sealing it with DG 105.

I am not "defensive" about spending to buy necessary products and tools. I just think if I MUST spend more than certain amount then I am better off hiring an elite car detailer to do it for me. If I am to spend $300-$500 why not hire someone who did this professionally on thousands of cars?
Just plain irrational, that's it.

 

[allenk4]

"Just plain irrational, that's it. "

You will find, as you read more on AGO, that most of the people here take Detailing to an "Irrational" level.

It will be a lot more fun to buy the gear and do it yourself.

I find it irrational to pay someone to detail my car or rake my leaves.

 

[carenthusiast]

It sounds like you need to find a detailer near you and have the car corrected and opti coat applied.

You're going to be in at least $300 for the proper supplies. With opti coat you just need to gently wash it so you don't marr the coating. You can wax it if you'd like but it won't last too long because it won't bond properly to the coating.

I may actually do that (hire a professional detailer for paint correction), but I am still hopeful that someone will guide me through the process and tell me what would work the best while staying within the bounds of what I want to spend on supplies.

Thank you for chiming in ! rops:

 

[carenthusiast]

"Just plain irrational, that's it. "

You will find, as you read more on AGO, that most of the people here take Detailing to an "Irrational" level.

It will be a lot more fun to buy the gear and do it yourself.

I find it irrational to pay someone to detail my car or rake my leaves.

One of the motivational factors to "do it myself" is that I want to have full control of the process and since it's my car and I can't trust it to just any detailer. So, part of time/effort will have to be spent on finding the right one.

But DA is not in my plans for now. May be I change my mind later, but I don't think you can buy a durable, good DA for $50. And I don't want to buy a kit you attach to a drill. A good DA must cost at least $250-$300.
And once I hit that $300 mark it makes more sense to have someone else do it.

You get the picture.

 

[allenk4]

I get "Your Picture"...it's just very different than mine

$50 DA does the same thing as a $349 FLEX, just less efficiently.

You could also search Eba* search Porter Cable 7424. Click the "USED" box. I have one...works great, just takes a little longer than my FLEX, but the PC.

Next thing you know, you will be polishing everything vehicle you can get your hands on.

Enjoy the hobby

 

[VISITOR]

One of the motivational factors to "do it myself" is that I want to have full control of the process and since it's my car and I can't trust it to just any detailer. So, part of time/effort will have to be spent on finding the right one.

But DA is not in my plans

why wouldn't this one last any longer than a GG6 or megs g110v2? they are all made overseas and like anything else any of them can go bad at anytime (no man made machine is perfect). seriously, it will be money well spent and you'll make your money back after one use or two. your hands can only do so much and will not uniformly remove defects like a DA will and not to mention the machine never gets tired like your hands will. IIRC, joe/superior shine had used them hard for over six months (still probably using them) without any problems. he details more cars in one month then most on here will in a lifetime. you can always keep this later down the line and delegate it for use with 4" pads, carpet brush, etc,...

 

[carenthusiast]

I get "Your Picture"...it's just very different than mine

$50 DA does the same thing as a $349 FLEX, just less efficiently.

You could also search Eba* search Porter Cable 7424. Click the "USED" box. I have one...works great, just takes a little longer than my FLEX, but the PC.

Next thing you know, you will be polishing everything vehicle you can get your hands on.

Enjoy the hobby

I thought about may be buying a used DA with solid reputation of doing a good job.

I have Makita rotary now, it's not the best rotary you can get but it's good. I learned the difference between good and mediocre rotary since i owned Makita. In theory it's just a motor with a pad turning at variable speed, in practice you get vastly different impression working with a good tool and it seems as if it turns much better results with less effort. Plus it lasts (you don't throw in wind what you pay for it).

 

[carenthusiast]

why wouldn't this one last any longer than a GG6 or megs g110v2? they are all made overseas and like anything else any of them can go bad at anytime (no man made machine is perfect). seriously, it will be money well spent and you'll make your money back after one use or two. your hands can only do so much and will not uniformly remove defects like a DA will and not to mention the machine never gets tired like your hands will. IIRC, joe/superior shine had used them hard for over six months (still probably using them) without any problems. he details more cars in one month then most on here will in a lifetime. you can always keep this later down the line and delegate it for use with 4" pads, carpet brush, etc,...

I will check it out.
It's not what I planned to do, but if it works as well as you describe I may consider it as an option.

 

[ski2]

OP--IMO you need to do a little more reading regarding the current state of auto detailing products. While you may have spent thousands of dollars on detailing products (on what I don't know) in the past your comments and responses indicate a lack of understanding.

Some points of interest:

The HF DA for $50 is certainly not the best money can buy, but if you'd do a little reading you'd see that it is a capable machine, has more power than a PC and is being used successfully by many weekend detailers and pros alike. I don't think I've read one post of it failing since introduced last year. Later you can always equip it with a small backing plate for 3"or 4" pads to avoid the hassle of changing backing plates to do the small bits.

A top quality DA does not cost $250-300. A PC is about $120 and a Griots is around $140. Sure there are the Rupes and Flex in the $350-400 range, but they are not necessary for excellent results.

The other things you need to get started are pretty much the same no matter what machine you purchase-- about $60 for 10-12 pads, $15 for a 5" backing plate, $10-20 for compound, $10-20 for polish (both prices are product dependent) and some decent MF towels.

DG 105 or any other durable sealant is considered a temporary protectant even if it does last 6 months. Considering you need about 1.5 ozs to do an entire car (that's about $1.20 of DG105) it seems like a good idea to just wash, clay and apply a sealant now, do some studying then move forward with the polishing at some time in the future.

If you were planning on applying a coating that will last anywhere from 2-10 years (and costs considerably more than a sealant) then I could see your concern that the finish needs to be corrected before application.

The reason you see so many saying they would not touch a new car with a rotary is that the chance of causing real damage is great unlike with a DA there is little to no chance of serious damage.

Sure you can polish by hand, but I doubt you will get acceptable results and it will take some amount of time as you'll probably have to space it out over at least 5 or so days--don't see how you could polish a whole car by hand to remove swirls acceptably in one day as you could with a DA.

 

[goldendodo19]

Have fun removing swirls from your clear coat by hand. Your hands will thank you after they fall off. Just buy the griots garage polisher, it has a lifetime warranty. Get 6 pads,some clay, m205 and some sealant you like and call it a day. Also a wax or sealant doesn't really protect the car from scratches it's more or less there to help the water bead up, help prevent stuff from sticking to it but it's not going to prevent scratches. Plus it does make the paint nice and slick. And if you just seal now and polish layer the polish will remove the old sealant so don't worry about "sealing in the scratches"

What I'm confused about is you're asking for advice getting it and just keep pushing it to the side because you refuse to spend the money on it. You really can't have one with out the other, polishing by hand will produce lackluster results and if you do get he swirls removed you'll be wishing you had the polisher by the time you're done.

 

[VISITOR]

I will check it out.
It's not what I planned to do, but if it works as well as you describe I may consider it as an option.

i'll tell you what.. you buy a HF DA (or any other DA) and show me a picture of the receipt next to it, and i'll send you a like new 5" DA backing plate for FREE. you will not regret the purchase and you'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner as many on here will attest to. it's money well spent and you'll have it as a spare and/or delegated for other uses too. btw, over on MOL someone is selling an original PC7424 for $50!

 

[carenthusiast]

OP--IMO you need to do a little more reading regarding the current state of auto detailing products While you may have spent thousands of dollars on detailing products (on what I don't know) in the past your comments and responses indicate a lack of understanding.

Some points of interest:

The HF DA for $50 is certainly not the best money can buy, but if you'd do a little reading you'd see that it is a capable machine, has more power than a PC and is being used successfully by many weekend detailers and pros alike. I don't think I've read one post of it failing since introduced last year. Later you can always equip it with a small backing plate for 3"or 4" pads to avoid the hassle of changing backing plates to do the small bits.

A top quality DA does not cost $250-300. A PC is about $120 and a Griots is around $140. Sure there are the Rupes and Flex in the $350-400 range, but they are not necessary for excellent results.

The other things you need to get started are pretty much the same no matter what machine you purchase-- about $60 for 10-12 pads, $15 for a 5" backing plate, $10-20 for compound, $10-20 for polish (both prices are product dependent) and some decent MF towels.

DG 105 or any other durable sealant is considered a temporary protectant even if it does last 6 months. Considering you need about 1.5 ozs to do an entire car (that's about $1.20 of DG105) it seems like a good idea to just wash, clay and apply a sealant now, do some studying then move forward with the polishing at some time in the future.

If you were planning on applying a coating that will last anywhere from 2-10 years (and costs considerably more than a sealant) then I could see your concern that the finish needs to be corrected before application.

The reason you see so many saying they would not touch a new car with a rotary is that the chance of causing real damage is great unlike with a DA there is little to no chance of serious damage.

Sure you can polish by hand, but I doubt you will get acceptable results and it will take some amount of time as you'll probably have to space it out over at least 5 or so days--don't see how you could polish a whole car by hand to remove swirls acceptably in one day as you could with a DA.

I am not pretentious, rather humble about my detailing skills. In fact, because I have more than one decade of experience detailing my cars I know how little I know. When I was washing my dads car as an 8 years old kid I thought I knew everything one can know about car detailing. With experience I also learned how limited in fact all my 'expertise' is. So, by all means, feel free to suggest that I am a noob in this field.
That doesn't offend me.

As to understanding and the HF....

Here is the link to autogeek thread about HF DA ( I assume the one I was suggested to buy): http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ers/55905-harbor-freight-da-polisher-new.html

If you read those reviews you will see that they are mixed. Some say it does decent job for what you pay, others say it's a junk.
I understand English. And the only way to fully understand what this machine is worth is , I guess, to try it. But I appreciate any feedback and suggestion. Buying HF DA will be one of the options I will consider (though, as I said before, it was not what I had in my mind when starting this thread).


As to DG105, they sell other products (such as water stain and oxidation removers) and their own product instructions state that one thing they can't remove is DG 105. I know how tough it is to remove water spot. You can't actually wash it off with dish wash detergent, and it doesn't come off with buffing/polishing/waxing/rubbing. If DG sells product that removes water stain but won't remove DG 105 then I assume DG 105 is tougher to remove than what I already know to be very tough to remove. Would I want to seal any imperfection like that?
May be I am missing something and you can explain it to me better?

And what kind of sealant lasts 5 years? Teflon Coating may be ? --> http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-phillips/38839-teflon-coating-scam-true.html


Thank you for your contribution to the thread, I do not mind critical remarks (as long as related to the thread) and any advise how to go about this project is highly appreciated!


Best regards,

Carenthusiast

 

[carenthusiast]

i'll tell you what.. you buy a HF DA (or any other DA) and show me a picture of the receipt next to it, and i'll send you a like new 5" DA backing plate for FREE. you will not regret the purchase and you'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner as many on here will attest to. it's money well spent and you'll have it as a spare and/or delegated for other uses too. btw, over on MOL someone is selling an original PC7424 for $50!

I may give it a shot. I guess I won't know for sure how good it is until I try it, but I figure it being DA it can't do damage to a clear coat. May be I should really give it a try.

Thank you for the advise rops:

 

[ski2]

HF power tools typically don't have a good reputation and most of the negative comments in the thread you mention are from those who have not tried the HF DA but have predetermined opinions. The DA has poven to be different (except the backing plate is crap) There is a thread on another detailing forum where quite a few pro detailers are using it with great success. Like I said it's not top of the line, but will get the job done and can always be used for smaller pads later on if you want to get something else, but you may find it is enough for doing your own cars.

Regarding DG 105 all I can say is that if you seal your car now and in 2 or 3 months polish it with a DA and the proper pad and product the 105 will be removed in the first few seconds of polishing. This is not my opinion--it's fact--I've been using DG105 for over five years.

DG105 is a sealant. The other alternative I mentioned are "COATINGS"
Coatings--as I said you need to do some reading. Optimum Opticoat was the first of the coatings and will last 10 years or more--it can only be removed mechanically with an abrasive polish. DP Coating should last 2 years and Pinnicale's coating will last up to 3 years--there are many others out there. Coatings are not snake oil--almost universally accepted and discussed widely on this and other detailing forums. These are not like the products sold by auto dealers.

Here's some articles by Mike that are very infomative:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ke-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html

 

[Scott@IncrediblyDetailed]

I may actually do that (hire a professional detailer for paint correction), but I am still hopeful that someone will guide me through the process and tell me what would work the best while staying within the bounds of what I want to spend on supplies.

Thank you for chiming in ! rops:

You'll need a DA buffer, microfiber cutting pads, foam polishing pads, compound, polish, some type of wax/sealant/coating, etc.

To do the job properly you will be in this for the same price it would cost to hire a professional. If you decide to do it yourself, you'll still have the supplies to do it again to your car (if needed) or other cars you may own. It's more of an investment.

Watch some of Mike's polishing videos and study everything you can and tackle the job yourself. You'll learn something new and get a lot more satisfaction from your hard work.

 

[carenthusiast]

HF power tools typically don't have a good reputation and most of the negative comments in the thread you mention are from those who have not tried the HF DA but have predetermined opinions. The DA has poven to be different (except the backing plate is crap) There is a thread on another detailing forum where quite a few pro detailers are using it with great success. Like I said it's not top of the line, but will get the job done and can always be used for smaller pads later on if you want to get something else, but you may find it is enough for doing your own cars.

Regarding DG 105 all I can say is that if you seal your car now and in 2 or 3 months polish it with a DA and the proper pad and product the 105 will be removed in the first few seconds of polishing. This is not my opinion--it's fact--I've been using DG105 for over five years.

DG105 is a sealant. The other alternative I mentioned are "COATINGS"
Coatings--as I said you need to do some reading. Optimum Opticoat was the first of the coatings and will last 10 years or more--it can only be removed mechanically with an abrasive polish. DP Coating should last 2 years and Pinnicale's coating will last up to 3 years--there are many others out there. Coatings are not snake oil--almost universally accepted and discussed widely on this and other detailing forums. These are not like the products sold by auto dealers.

Here's some articles by Mike that are very infomative:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ke-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html

DG 105 is cleaner/polish, not really a sealant. According to this product link on autogeek (Duragloss Total Performance Polish (TPP) # 105) it provides tough coating.
It doesn't even use word "sealant". So, if I was to pick on words then DG 105 is not even a sealant to begin with.

And the link I posted about Teflon , it's about Teflon Coating.

But all the semantics aside I am pretty sure my point was clear: what polish/sealant/coating (whatever it might be called or is) lasts 10 years, or even 5 years? Notice that I don't say "nothing will last 10 years as protectant on a clear coat" , but I am just a bit skeptical and curious at the same time and ask what is it out there that has such durability? Some of the stuff I heard about (including what is talked about in Teflon Coating thread) comes with "x years of warranty", but that doesn't mean it really lasts that long. What they really sell is x number of years of free wash and sealing/waxing/coating. So, you drive 6-8 months, the product wears off, you go to claim your warranty and they just reapply product for you and give it back to you "treated".


Now, I am not an expert in polishing, waxing and coating (If I were why would I ask for advise here), but somehow I am extremely skeptical of any claim about a protective coat that can last 10 years.

Finally, with DG stating that their own water stain removers won't remove DG 105, which claim should I give more weight to? Yours (that it takes seconds to remove with the polish and DA) or their own?
I understand they (or their distributors) may have a motive to overinflate the durability and strength of their polish/sealant, but almost any sealant has prime purpose of "sealing" what is underneath. Why would anyone want to "seal" imperfection, even if for 6 or less months?

 

[carenthusiast]

You'll need a DA buffer, microfiber cutting pads, foam polishing pads, compound, polish, some type of wax/sealant/coating, etc.

To do the job properly you will be in this for the same price it would cost to hire a professional. If you decide to do it yourself, you'll still have the supplies to do it again to your car (if needed) or other cars you may own. It's more of an investment.

Watch some of Mike's polishing videos and study everything you can and tackle the job yourself. You'll learn something new and get a lot more satisfaction from your hard work.

Are you sure I need all that, including a compound, for a car that shipped off factory plant just a three months ago?

I know I will need polish and some sealant/wax/coating.

I would very much want to settle on specific product and hope to get some feedback on what works the best. So far I was suggested to use M205 for polishing and DG 105 for sealing the paint. I guess I will use those two unless someone has better suggestion.
The M205 costs around $35 ($27.99 at autogeek) and DG105 is sold for $10.99 + shipping on autogeek.net
That's around $45 including shipping costs.
If I do get DA from FH, that's another $50-$60. My total is not exceeding $100 and I may get mission accomplished.

Unless you give more detailed explanation or cite specific products and steps needed to correct fine scratch and swirls off new clear coat, I will assume what you suggested is a cure for older cars that endured a lot more damaging environmental exposure than mine did. I doubt my car needs that much of a treatment, but if you think it does I will be glad to learn why.

 

[allenk4]

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[carenthusiast]

So far I've got two answers that I found directly related to question I asked :

First was to use M205 as a polish to remove fine scratches and swirl marks. Second was to use DG 105 to seal the clear coat.

I also got one suggestion (which is tempting enough to consider) and that is to buy HF DA for under $60 and use it to apply M205.

Are there any other specific suggestions (like those above)?

There is PLENTY of material to read, including on this forum. But , I would be lying if I said that I didn't know about existence of lots of reading materials online, including on autogeeks.net. In fact, browsing and reading some of it I concluded that my own 'expertise' is nothing beyond amateurish and decided to post my questions here, eager to listen what true experts would suggest me to do. I am not so eager to go through a large amount of material posted online that may not be related to my individual circumstance at all, in search of a direct answer.

If you have been detailing for living and if you have done plenty of paint correction on a brand new clear coat and are wiling to give some guidance that would be appreciated the most.

 

[FUNX650]

Yes:
You've piqued my interest by first saying: "black clearcoat";
and next: that you could hire a Professional Detailer to correct your vehicle's paint, and then apply a film layer of a protection product, such as Opti-coat...
for the same cost as if you were to buy a HF DA, some pads and product...and do it yourself.

Yes:
I've hand polished vehicles with some modicum of success before, i.e.: I was satisfied.
Were there any remaining paint "blemishes"? Possibly.
But I commenced to apply either a wax/sealant (to act as the sacrificial barrier for the just polished clear coat paint) anyway!

Yes:
I'd enjoy sharing the products/"tools" I used in the above example.
But to avoid any redundancies (and, possibly, be 'shot down' as others have been)
I'd first enjoy hearing what products/"tools" you have on hand.
Thanks.



Bob