HT Cyan falling apart after 1 use - what am I doing wrong?

[Twister]

The pad cleaning brush is very stiff and it will chew up a pad if you apply too much pressure. The brush works great for wool pads though. I like the towel cleaning method better for foam pads.

One thing to keep in mind is make sure to keep the pad flat when polishing. If you put too much pressure on the edge and not on the whole face the edge of the back can chew up like your second pic

 

[gmck]

Apologies if my post has upset a few of you. That was certainly not my intention.

I actually don’t particularly care how anyone goes about cleaning their pads. I also agree with one of the posts, that there is more than one way to clean a pad and no one way is the correct way. What I did suggest is a very simple method that ensures that you are always working clean. If you don’t agree that working clean is extremely important in producing a perfect paint finish, then there is no point in any further discussion.

I wasn't too impressed with the process. As Mike Phillips said, the DA stops rotating when you apply pressure with the brush.

If you are stopping the pad with the brush on speed 2 then that is an example of applying too much pressure to the pad. That much pressure will eventually damage any pad. I would guess that you had a pad that was so contaminated that it was beyond the stage of being able to be cleaned with the brush method. I’d also suggest, if that was the case, that you were then working with a dirty pad and that you are actually doing more harm than good to the paint using a pad in that condition.

If you use the suggested technique each time you put the machine down then there will never be much waste product to remove. If you do not do it frequently enough then the brush cleaning technique will not work because the pad will be too contaminated.

I consider pads to be just like polishes, and treat them are a consumable. Maybe not everyone here thinks that way for whatever reason. Pads are not designed to last forever, however their life can be extended with careful cleaning both during the job and at completion of the job.

I also agree with Todd’s post that HT pads do take longer to dry and will be damaged when used on a DA if they used while they are still damp. The Cyan pad is also probably the most delicate pad of all pads and requires more care when cleaning, hence clean it more often using the above technique. It may be delicate and definitely won’t last as long as say an orange pad, but it is a very effective cutting pad, which also finishes down well. Like many things, there is a trade off to consider when purchasing such a pad.

One thing I am interested in from you guys is an estimate of how many of each type of pad do you use on any one correction that involves compounding, polishing and finishing.

 

[Buckskincolt]

Apologies if my post has upset a few of you. That was certainly not my intention.

I actually don’t particularly care how anyone goes about cleaning their pads. I also agree with one of the posts, that there is more than one way to clean a pad and no one way is the correct way. What I did suggest is a very simple method that ensures that you are always working clean. If you don’t agree that working clean is extremely important in producing a perfect paint finish, then there is no point in any further discussion.



If you are stopping the pad with the brush on speed 2 then that is an example of applying too much pressure to the pad. That much pressure will eventually damage any pad. I would guess that you had a pad that was so contaminated that it was beyond the stage of being able to be cleaned with the brush method. I’d also suggest, if that was the case, that you were then working with a dirty pad and that you are actually doing more harm than good to the paint using a pad in that condition.

If you use the suggested technique each time you put the machine down then there will never be much waste product to remove. If you do not do it frequently enough then the brush cleaning technique will not work because the pad will be too contaminated.

I consider pads to be just like polishes, and treat them are a consumable. Maybe not everyone here thinks that way for whatever reason. Pads are not designed to last forever, however their life can be extended with careful cleaning both during the job and at completion of the job.

I also agree with Todd’s post that HT pads do take longer to dry and will be damaged when used on a DA if they used while they are still damp. The Cyan pad is also probably the most delicate pad of all pads and requires more care when cleaning, hence clean it more often using the above technique. It may be delicate and definitely won’t last as long as say an orange pad, but it is a very effective cutting pad, which also finishes down well. Like many things, there is a trade off to consider when purchasing such a pad.

One thing I am interested in from you guys is an estimate of how many of each type of pad do you use on any one correction that involves compounding, polishing and finishing.

:applause::applause::bowdown::whs:

Very nice post gmck!
You make some very valid good points. Working clean is #1. Thanks for coming back here and fixing a post that I'm now sure you didn't mean to come out that way. It's clear you have experience and you can help a lot of people. My apology to you for jumping on you!

 

[ethereal]

I cleaned the pads after every section pass, I was not working dirty or doing damage to the paint. Perhaps my technique with the cleaning brush could use some work, but I found that if I used light pressure to keep the pad rotating, the brush wasn't as effective as the towel on the fly method at removing excess material from the pad, so I stuck with the towel. Regardless, the paint looks great and my second cyan pad shows virtually no wear, so I think I improved my cleaning technique on day 2.

Also, I did use my pads right after washing them. I squeezed them out very aggressively which got most of the water out, then I gave them a quick spin on the DA at low speed which got a little more, then I wrapped them up inside of a waffle weave MF drying towel which got the last bit of water out. They felt very dry by the time they went on the machine. I would use it for a section, clean it, then switch to the other one to avoid any heat buildup. It worked very well, and the backing plate nor the pad was even remotely hot upon removal. Is it faster to have a whole bunch of pads, obviously. Can you make due with only two? Yes.

I can appreciate that to many people an $8 pad is a consumable item, but two months ago the only detailing supplies I had was a bottle of Meguiars Cleaner Wax, some Turtle Wax car soap, and a 5 gallon bucket. After spending hundreds of dollars to get going, I need my pads to be as economical as possible -- I'm a college student so my disposable income is limited.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions and input -- here is what I got the car looking like with off the shelf Meguiar's consumer products and the hydro-tech pads:

 

[gmck]

Regardless, the paint looks great and my second cyan pad shows virtually no wear, so I think I improved my cleaning technique on day 2.

I’d have to agree with that, your Beemer looks terrific. You’ve done a great job. Your BMW must be close on 15 years old and it sure looks like new again.

On reflection, I think you probably found the brush cleaning technique inadequate because you were using UC. UC tends to saturate a pad after some use and therefore I can probably now see why the brush technique did not work that well for you. I rarely ever use UC as I prefer the speed and the greater cutting power of M105. Typically M105 creates a lot of dust, which many here don’t like, so the dust and the paint residue collect on the pad. Therefore instead of the pad getting saturated as it does with UC, it tends to cake up instead. That is where the brush cleaning technique shines in removing that cake up.

UC does have reasonably good cut, but it is not in the same league of M105, so eventually I’m sure you’ll come across a situation where you will need greater cutting power than UC and move to the M105/M205 combo. After you have made that step, it sort of becomes difficult going back to UC. If you get to try M105, try again with the pad brush.

You’ve probably by now read the other thread by Todd re the HT pads. I sort of think you have fluked it, when you’ve used a damp HT pad. The closed cell design makes these pads very susceptible to retaining moisture. The first time it happened to me I think I was using a Crimson pad which was left to dry overnight on the floor outlet of the central heating as is my normal practice. The pad appeared to be dry, just the same as any other pad, but by the time I’d made a number of passes, I noticed steam (thought it was smoke) coming from the pad. Luckily I noticed it for when I removed the pad from the backing plate it was definitely wet. I’m sure if I had kept going the pad would have just exploded or should that be imploded. Either way I doubt it would have been a good result.

Try the following tip to prolong the life of the Cyan pad. Because it is a delicate pad, have a back up Orange pad (yes I know a few more bucks, you’ll have to spend). Use the Cyan pad for the first couple of passes, but when you come to panels such as doors etc try and avoid the edges of the panel. For instance, avoid the area where the panel joins the window, or around the door handles or any protruding emblem. The really delicate part of the Cyan pad is its edge, so the idea is to avoid using it. After you’ve completed the Cyan pass, now swap to the Orange pad and do the complete panel, including the areas you previously avoided. Orange pads also wear out, but they are a hell of lot tougher than a Cyan pad, so can withstand polishing on an edge.

 

[ethereal]

I will eventually get some more pads, but I had already spent so much on supplies to get started that the thought of spending even another $50 on pads was just not something I wanted to do. I realize I am short-changing myself only having 2 of each pad (cyan, tangerine, crimson) but it did manage to get the job done.

Again, I'm still a complete beginner, this is the first car that I've done a multi-stage correction on so I kept it simple with UC/UP. I'm sure at some point I'll step up to 105/205, but I figured I should start out with products that are slightly easier to use first. Also, they are considerably cheaper.