I cause swirls when polishing with DA, what am I doing wrong?

[Haloruler64]

Hey guys, new here. And very very frustrated!

I have a 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, various parts of it had been professionally repainted over the years so the paint is in quite good condition. Nonetheless, I decided to detail it fully. I bought a Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's pads (2x foam polishing, 2x foam finishing, both 6") Meguiar's Ultimate Compound/Polish/Finishing Polish, clay, wax, and all the good bits. Also a Chemical Guys 6" backing plate and CG microfiber towels. I figured it would be plenty for a noobie.

I watched a lot of videos and did a ton of research before starting this, as I do with all my projects. I washed the car and fully clayed it by hand, it felt like glass. And before polishing each panel, I'd wash it individually to prevent any dirt on there. So when polishing, I used a fresh clean foam pad, prepped it (covered in polish entirely), then used Ultimate Polish on the paint. I did small areas on speed 5 with little pressure. Did overlapping passes, usually around 6, then wiped off the polish with a clean microfiber towel. This is the result.

Now, I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've tried different speeds, I've tried different levels of pressure (letting the weight of the polisher do the work, and putting moderate pressure), I go slow but not too slow (same speed as the videos by AutoGeek), same passes. I just don't get what's going wrong.

First question, is my Porter Cable DA defective? Is this noise normal? Videos don't really show as much gear noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzKjrjmevsQ

It also has the included pad and and the backing plate both wobble when spun. It likes to "walk" around the paint, my neighbor's 7424 doesn't do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYghI0p3WjU

Second, how do you guys recommend wiping off the Ultimate Polish? When it's dry, or when it's still wet? Just wipe off with a clean microfiber towel?

Third, is polishing in the sun really a big deal? Yes, I polished in sunlight. I have no choice, my garage is barely wide enough to walk by the car on one side, not wide enough to walk around both without sliding by sideways. I can't even polish one side no matter how I park. Could direct sunlight cause such defects?

Considering the amount of time and money I've invested so far, I'm frustrated. I'm the kind of guy that picks anything up and just gets it immediately, so it's extra frustrating that I suck at this! Hope you guys can offer some advice. Feel free to laugh at me if I'm making some stupid mistake!

 

[Don M]

#1 Yes the PC IS that noisy and it's normal

#2 If you think that wiping the UP off dry could be causing swirls, *I* use Megs Gold Class Quik Detailer and MIST the area with the dried polish and remove it that way.

#3 Yes. The sun will cause polishes and compounds to dry too quickly and cause you to 'dry buff' which isn't a good thing, it causes swirls and such. I recommend doing smaller areas so the polish doesn't completely dry out while you're using it AND using the QD to help remove the polish.


Could you possibly park under a tree? My wife has our? garage filled with HER stuff, so I have to do the 'shade tree' routine.

 

[2011 Kona Blue]

Hey guys, new here. And very very frustrated!

I have a 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, various parts of it had been professionally repainted over the years so the paint is in quite good condition. Nonetheless, I decided to detail it fully. I bought a Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's pads (2x foam polishing, 2x foam finishing, both 6") Meguiar's Ultimate Compound/Polish/Finishing Polish, clay, wax, and all the good bits. Also a Chemical Guys 6" backing plate and CG microfiber towels. I figured it would be plenty for a noobie.

I watched a lot of videos and did a ton of research before starting this, as I do with all my projects. I washed the car and fully clayed it by hand, it felt like glass. And before polishing each panel, I'd wash it individually to prevent any dirt on there. So when polishing, I used a fresh clean foam pad, prepped it (covered in polish entirely), then used Ultimate Polish on the paint. I did small areas on speed 5 with little pressure. Did overlapping passes, usually around 6, then wiped off the polish with a clean microfiber towel. This is the result.

Now, I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've tried different speeds, I've tried different levels of pressure (letting the weight of the polisher do the work, and putting moderate pressure), I go slow but not too slow (same speed as the videos by AutoGeek), same passes. I just don't get what's going wrong.

First question, is my Porter Cable DA defective? Is this noise normal? Videos don't really show as much gear noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzKjrjmevsQ

It also has the included pad and and the backing plate both wobble when spun. It likes to "walk" around the paint, my neighbor's 7424 doesn't do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYghI0p3WjU

Second, how do you guys recommend wiping off the Ultimate Polish? When it's dry, or when it's still wet? Just wipe off with a clean microfiber towel?

Third, is polishing in the sun really a big deal? Yes, I polished in sunlight. I have no choice, my garage is barely wide enough to walk by the car on one side, not wide enough to walk around both without sliding by sideways. I can't even polish one side no matter how I park. Could direct sunlight cause such defects?

Considering the amount of time and money I've invested so far, I'm frustrated. I'm the kind of guy that picks anything up and just gets it immediately, so it's extra frustrating that I suck at this! Hope you guys can offer some advice. Feel free to laugh at me if I'm making some stupid mistake!

Maybe its the pads! I only been using Lake County brand pads. I have been using Ultimate compound for years now and never had a swirl marks put in.

 

[GSKR]

That's caused by something you are drying the car with , nothing to do with your polishing method.check your microfiber cloths something is marring the finish as you are wiping.

 

[Don M]

That's caused by something you are drying the car with , nothing to do with your polishing method.check your microfiber cloths something is marring the finish as you are wiping.

He's right, if it was your buffing practices, there would be little "Curly-Qs" all over the area.

 

[GSKR]

When wiping off the polish there should be very little residual left.polishing in the sun is always not recommend but I do it everyday.sometimg is marring the finish as you are wiping.what kind of micros do you have how muc pressure is applied when wiping.Did you wash the micro before working on car.

 

[TTQ B4U]

Agree on the micro cloths. When I picked my Audi the first thing I noticed is that the clear was VERY Suseptable to marring from the cheap Autozone'ish microfiber rags in a bag. Upgrade them and I bet you'll be fine. Practice blotting technique when drying, use a lube like a drying aid or Rinseless solution and upgrade your drying towels too.

Sounds crazy anal retentive but that is where I bet your issues are from.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Wipe off the Ultimate Polish immediately after you're done buffing the section, yes with a plain clean microfiber towel, turning to a clean side for the final wipe. Don't allow it to dry on the paint.
On your day off, @6-7am there's no sun.
There's a possibility that the paint on that car is scratch sensitive to a buffer.. That seems to be the case when it comes to my 2014 Kia, can't put a buffer with finishing polish on it without instilling a bunch of swirls.. Go figure.

 

[Eldorado2k]

...I'm pretty sure he's specifically referring to scratches that are on the paint after polishing and wiping the polish off. Not from washing & drying.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

IF the pads or compounds or polishes are causing the problem you would see micro-marring. I doubt this is the problem.

It's vitally important to clean your pads often, I have an article or two on this topic.

I didn't watch the video yet but are you perhaps seeing RIDS after removing all the shallow swirls and scratches?

 

[Mantilgh]

I wasn't sure from your post.

Did you only use the polish, or did you compound then polish?

Which pad did you use with the polish?

Were those visible before you started?

It could be soft paint and your microfibers.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Ahhhhh, you have soft paint. No fun. Do not polish in the sun! Clean your pad "on the fly" after every section and use *quality* MF towels.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hey guys, new here. And very very frustrated!

I have a 2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, various parts of it had been professionally repainted over the years so the paint is in quite good condition. Nonetheless, I decided to detail it fully. I bought a Porter Cable 7424XP, Meguiar's pads (2x foam polishing, 2x foam finishing, both 6") Meguiar's Ultimate Compound/Polish/Finishing Polish, clay, wax, and all the good bits. Also a Chemical Guys 6" backing plate and CG microfiber towels. I figured it would be plenty for a noobie.

Are the pads rotating? Did you mark your backing plate? The reason I ask is because 6" pads are kind of big for the PC and you're not going to remove swirls if the pad is not rotating. See my article here,

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation

I watched a lot of videos and did a ton of research before starting this, as I do with all my projects. I washed the car and fully clayed it by hand, it felt like glass. And before polishing each panel, I'd wash it individually to prevent any dirt on there. So when polishing, I used a fresh clean foam pad, prepped it (covered in polish entirely),

then used Ultimate Polish on the paint. I did small areas on speed 5 with little pressure.

Did overlapping passes, usually around 6, then wiped off the polish with a clean microfiber towel.

Couple of comments...

1. Ultimate Polish is a FINE cut polish. It's very gentle. It's to clean up after using Ultimate Compound. My guess is it's not aggressive enough for what you want to do. Also, if you use a "polishing" pad then together you're working way to gently for any dramatic before and after results.

2. Speed 5 on the Porter Cable with a 6" pad means the pad is probably not rotating or at least it's not rotating very well all the time.

3. Light pressure is NOT how to use the PC. You need to apply firm downward pressure on speed 6 for 6-8 section passes.

I cover all of the above in my how-to book,

The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine

I cover this in multiple videos on YouTube.

I cover this in detail in this DVD




How to Properly Use the Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher Updated!

And in this article I wrote about 10 years ago on MOL and 5 years ago here on AGO I walk you through the most common mistakes and how to remedy them.


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide

Tyler, age 15 removing swirls using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher

Now, I really don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've tried different speeds, I've tried different levels of pressure (letting the weight of the polisher do the work, and putting moderate pressure), I go slow but not too slow (same speed as the videos by AutoGeek), same passes. I just don't get what's going wrong.

Read through the guide above, see if anything stands out.

My guess is the pad is not rotating, or not rotating with power.

EXACTLY WHICH PADS DO YOU HAVE?

If they are THICK and 6-7 inches in diameter then that is part of the problem. Years ago I coined the saying,

Thin is in

And it's more true now than ever before. You want and need THIN foam pads for the PC

First question, is my Porter Cable DA defective? Is this noise normal? Videos don't really show as much gear noise.

It also has the included pad and and the backing plate both wobble when spun. It likes to "walk" around the paint, my neighbor's 7424 doesn't do this.

Are 100% positive the compression washer is in place and the backing plate is tight to the spindle?


DON'T LOOSE THE COMPRESSION WASHER!

The Compression Washer

Second, how do you guys recommend wiping off the Ultimate Polish? When it's dry, or when it's still wet? Just wipe off with a clean microfiber towel?

Click the link below and read the article and look at the pictures.

How to correctly fold and use a Microfiber Towel

Third, is polishing in the sun really a big deal? Yes, I polished in sunlight. I have no choice, my garage is barely wide enough to walk by the car on one side, not wide enough to walk around both without sliding by sideways. I can't even polish one side no matter how I park. Could direct sunlight cause such defects?

Sun cause heat and heat is the enemy of poishing mostly because your product will tend to dry up faster than you want or need. Just work smaller sections when working outside. Start early in the morning when temperatures are still low.

See this article,


Tips for working in warm/hot weather or direct sunlight

Considering the amount of time and money I've invested so far, I'm frustrated.

I'm the kind of guy that picks anything up and just gets it immediately, so it's extra frustrating that I suck at this!

Hope you guys can offer some advice. Feel free to laugh at me if I'm making some stupid mistake!

I feel your paint - Bill Clinton

I feel your paint - Mike Phillips


No one is laughing at you and what you're experinecing is called the

Learning Curve

The most powerful tool you own is your brain and to go with it this disucssion forum. There is no way I could have shared all the above information in a formatted way like I've done here on the AutogeekOnline.net discussion forum on Facebook. Facebook is fleeting and great for one-liners but a horrible interface to actually "learn".


Thank you for joining the AGO forum and posting your questions. Please take some time to read through what I've written above and and then take inventory to what you've been doing. It's just a matter of,

Tweaking your technique

And you'll be creating a flawless show car finish in no time. Next your freinds will be asking you,

HOw much do you charge?

 

[David Hayward]

Mike as always comes with a great response. The video too me looks like holograms not what we would consider here to be "swirls". I almost wonder if these existed on your finish already and maybe polishing lightly is giving enough clarity to see them now.

You may want to use a polishing pad with ultimate compound first then follow that with ultimate polish. Best thing is to do a small section like this and then view it in the sun to see if the defect is correct before moving on to the whole vehicle.

And as Mike said your porter cable will work much better with thin smaller pads instead of the larger 6 inch.

 

[Eldorado2k]

I've experienced a similar problem.
The 2 times I've attempted to machine polish my 2014 Kia Sorento I ended up instilling fine swirls into my test spot which was virtually swirl free prior to polishing it. I'm 100% sure it didn't occur during the wipe off. It happened during the polishing.
1st time I used M205 on a Megs Thin Foam Finishing Disc with med/light pressure/3 passes, speed 4.5 nothing crazy..
Next time I used Carpro Essence with a Gloss Pad on my G21, light pressure, speed 4.5... Both times I swirled the heck out of my test spot which I prepped by doing a full wash and clay. There's something up with that paint, it seems ultra sensitive to a buffer.. Otherwise it's not really prone to scratching. I dunno.

 

[chainlink18]

Ahhhhh, you have soft paint. No fun. Do not polish in the sun! Clean your pad "on the fly" after every section and use *quality* MF towels.

I agree...found this out on my "hot in the sun" Honda...results looked like your vid

It polished great, the problem comes when you try and wipe it off...it left some pretty scary looking marks on it, carefully wiping those off just left new ones...I let the car cool and tried again... polish wiped off with no marks

 

[Haloruler64]

Wow, that's a lot of info. Thank you to all of you! I'll try to address the main questions.

There were no major holograms before I started. They were definitely put in there by me during the buffing.

I did mark my pads with a Sharpie, and make sure they're always spinning.

The Porter Cable 7424XP came with a thick 6" pad, and the counterweight says to only use with 6" pads. I have Maguiar's DFP6 foam polishing discs I'm using for polish, they're very thin and on a thin 6" backing plate. I have the compression washer on there and everything is very tight. I have also tried the thick included foam pad. I tried compounding, but after seeing swirls I started practicing with Ultimate Polish. I got my fender looking pretty nice with no holograms somehow... just not everything else. Should I switch to compound to take the holograms out then polish? Also, for the PC specifically, should I be using speed 6 for both compound and polish?

I've used both Chemical Guys microfiber for the wipe off and Meguiar's Supreme Shine microfiber towels. Quality stuff, at least I'd think so.

Maybe the "swirls" (I guess holograms are a better way to describe it) are caused by the wipe down. Although I try to wipe in the opposite direction on the subsequent polishes, and the swirls remain in the "long" direction. I'll try misting the area with quick detailer before the wipe down every time, and I'll try working in smaller areas so the polish doesn't dry. Unfortunately, I don't even have a tree to park under. Just a tiny garage and a tiny parking spot in a complex of condos. You can imagine how small my garage is if even in an MR2, I have to park in a way that I can open and get out of one door and the other is entirely blocked.

I'll definitely try polshing the car on an overcast day, although then I won't see the holograms for a long time, they only come out in the sun.

It seems like my main issue is doing it in the heat, and the wipe down is causing the holograms. I have to figure out how to address this.

Thank you again to everyone who responded, and sorry I couldn't respond individually! Mike I will be reading all the articles you linked.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Wow, that's a lot of info. Thank you to all of you! I'll try to address the main questions.

Thank you again to everyone who responded, and sorry I couldn't respond individually!

WE have a very good forum community...

Mike I will be reading all the articles you linked.

I'll check back on this thread tomorrow and see where you're at.

 

[Haloruler64]

Okay I read every article you posted. The tip on cleaning pads on the fly is great, and working in the sun as well. I'll have to keep that in mind next time I give this a shot. So I think I just have two main questions.

1. What speed do I use on the PC 7424XP when polishing, and when compounding? I've heard mixed things.

2. This is a tough one, I've googled but never found the answer. What's the best, safest way to wipe the polish off the car after I'm done buffing the area?

 

[goldenlight]

Im thinking the problem is coming from your buff off technique. Definitely work with the test spot to perfect your technique and when doing paint correction always work on a cool surface other wise it will be hard to buff off. Causing the hologram affect. Make sure you using the Microfibers made in Korea. Auto geek has several on here. I believe there having a %20 percent sale for memorial day or a something like that. You can pick up a 13x13 pop tent from Costco or Sams Club for about $120. It will cover most of the car but 3ft. You can pick up a few 5 gallon bucks and fill them with water to use to anchor the pop up tent.