I don't know what I'm doing wrong?

Beerwulf76

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So today was my second time using Meg's Ultimate Compound with the goal of removing the swirls on my black 2000 Corolla's finish.Now apart from swirls the are also many RIDS,dents bumps and bruises scattered throughout the paint.My main goal is to use my car to practice swirl removal.
I'm using a Porter Cable UDM dual action polisher with 51/2" Wolfgang orange light cutting pads with speed setting turned all the way up to six.I'm sure I'm doing at lest 6 section passes with medium firm pressure,with about a quarters worth of polish on the pad and "kissing" the paint to spread in a about 2' x2' section.

I try to be mindfull of not working to fast and work the pad slowly over paint.Now I realize I only used one pad,but was only polishing the vertical panels on one side of my small car.Maybe I should have used another pad halfway through?

While there is a noticeable improvement to the finish,it is nothing dramatic or worth the effort put into it.The swirls are reduced but not than 50% or so.Am I not using an aggressive enough pad?Should I be using a wool pad?

Here are some before n afters.

103_2902_800x600.jpg


103_2906_800x600.jpg


103_2914_800x600.jpg


103_2940_800x600.jpg


103_2949_800x600.jpg




I guess you can't tell too god on the afters,I will take some more shots tomorrow in the sun.

Feed back please
 
after compound used, did u use any polishing products?

speed 6 on DA sound like it can cook yr paint in very short moment which is kinda dangerous
 
after compound used, did u use any polishing products?

speed 6 on DA sound like it can cook yr paint in very short moment which is kinda dangerous

I followed up the Ultimate Compound with Poli-Seal on two panels and XMT 360 on the other two.
 
speed 6 on DA sound like it can cook yr paint in very short moment which is kinda dangerous
This comment (I assume) is not spoken through experience. That little UDM isn't going to cook anything an any amount of time.

To the OP, shrink your working area down to a 12"x12" area and work very slow section passes. After every few section passes wipe the area clean and check your progress. Keep working that section until the swirls are removed. Yes, please post a few more pictures with the sun illuminating the paint defects so that someone can help you identify whether you are dealing with swirls and not clear coat failure or paint fracturing or something like that.
 
Wool won't work with a PC. MF Cutting and Surbuf are the more aggressive pads for a DA. With Surbufs, you will almost certainly require further finishing with something more than Poli-Seal or XMT 360.

Make sure the pad is rotating, not just oscillating. As Dave said, go slow and small for better correction.
 
This comment (I assume) is not spoken through experience. That little UDM isn't going to cook anything an any amount of time.

To the OP, shrink your working area down to a 12"x12" area and work very slow section passes. After every few section passes wipe the area clean and check your progress. Keep working that section until the swirls are removed. Yes, please post a few more pictures with the sun illuminating the paint defects so that someone can help you identify whether you are dealing with swirls and not clear coat failure or paint fracturing or something like that.

OP, Dave has provided most excellent advice. No need to continue polishing on the rest of the car until you have perfected your method on the first section.

How much pressure are you using?

Did you prime your pad by spreading a thin layer on it before starting your first section?

Did you clean your pad on the fly before adding any more polish and starting the next section?

Take Daves advice and keep in mind a more aggressive pad like a cyan Hydrotech pad, yellow Buff and Shine pad or optimum MF cutting pad are probably your best bets in all likelihood for pad choice on this case.

I would purchase some Optimum mf cutting pads if I were you. Paired with CarPro Fixer and blowing the pad out often those swirls would likely be toast. But before buying anything else just follow Daves advice. The UC should be plenty capable if removing them as well but won't finish out as nice as the Fixer.
 
OP, Dave has provided most excellent advice. No need to continue polishing on the rest of the car until you have perfected your method on the first section.

How much pressure are you using?

Did you prime your pad by spreading a thin layer on it before starting your first section?

Did you clean your pad on the fly before adding any more polish and starting the next section?

Take Daves advice and keep in mind a more aggressive pad like a cyan Hydrotech pad, yellow Buff and Shine pad or optimum MF cutting pad are probably your best bets in all likelihood for pad choice on this case.

I would purchase some Optimum mf cutting pads if I were you. Paired with CarPro Fixer and blowing the pad out often those swirls would likely be toast. But before buying anything else just follow Daves advice. The UC should be plenty capable if removing them as well but won't finish out as nice as the Fixer.

I think Dave's recco on going slow,should be quite helpfull.No I did not make sure I got the desired results before moving on to next panels.I also did neglect to clean my pad,which seems to be a key factor since the last panel I did was the least corrected.

I will also consider suggested pads on future purchases

Thank You Cee Dog.I much enjoy you product reviews.
 
OP, Dave has provided most excellent advice. No need to continue polishing on the rest of the car until you have perfected your method on the first section.

How much pressure are you using?

Did you prime your pad by spreading a thin layer on it before starting your first section?

Did you clean your pad on the fly before adding any more polish and starting the next section?

Take Daves advice and keep in mind a more aggressive pad like a cyan Hydrotech pad, yellow Buff and Shine pad or optimum MF cutting pad are probably your best bets in all likelihood for pad choice on this case.

I would purchase some Optimum mf cutting pads if I were you. Paired with CarPro Fixer and blowing the pad out often those swirls would likely be toast. But before buying anything else just follow Daves advice. The UC should be plenty capable if removing them as well but won't finish out as nice as the Fixer.

??? horrible post !

I think Dave's recco on going slow,should be quite helpfull.No I did not make sure I got the desired results before moving on to next panels.I also did neglect to clean my pad,which seems to be a key factor since the last panel I did was the least corrected.

I will also consider suggested pads on future purchases

Thank You Cee Dog.I much enjoy you product reviews.

Wool won't work with a PC. MF Cutting and Surbuf are the more aggressive pads for a DA. With Surbufs, you will almost certainly require further finishing with something more than Poli-Seal or XMT 360.

Make sure the pad is rotating, not just oscillating. As Dave said, go slow and small for better correction.

This comment (I assume) is not spoken through experience. That little UDM isn't going to cook anything an any amount of time.

To the OP, shrink your working area down to a 12"x12" area and work very slow section passes. After every few section passes wipe the area clean and check your progress. Keep working that section until the swirls are removed. Yes, please post a few more pictures with the sun illuminating the paint defects so that someone can help you identify whether you are dealing with swirls and not clear coat failure or paint fracturing or something like that.

Thanks Dave.I'm realizing the error of my ways.I will shrink my work are down,and practice practice with slower passes.I also thought the cooking you paint comment was odd as it seems you almost have to try to do any damage with a DA.

Sorry no sun today,only rain so no more pics for now.It is not clearcoat failure or fracturing that much I know.
 
Wool won't work with a PC. MF Cutting and Surbuf are the more aggressive pads for a DA. With Surbufs, you will almost certainly require further finishing with something more than Poli-Seal or XMT 360.

Make sure the pad is rotating, not just oscillating. As Dave said, go slow and small for better correction.


Thanks for heads up on the wool!I do have a line mark on my backing plate,I don't believe rotation cease at any point.

I also have some Ultimate Polish for finishing if I were to use more aggressive pads.
 
OP, i was in the same boat you were in and posted a similar thread about a month back. This was on soft acura paint. After priming the pad and cleaning the pads on the fly (I know they say once/panel but i cleaned it with compressed air after every section) and using small amounts of m105 afterwards, it worked awesome with very little residue left over for wipe down and dusted very minimal. You should look up Richie's method on youtube (although he does use a rotary instead). Also one very light mist of water onto the pad every now and then really helped.

No swirls left, although some deeper scratches still exist after several section passes.
 
OP, i was in the same boat you were in and posted a similar thread about a month back. This was on soft acura paint. After priming the pad and cleaning the pads on the fly (I know they say once/panel but i cleaned it with compressed air after every section) and using small amounts of m105 afterwards, it worked awesome with very little residue left over for wipe down and dusted very minimal. You should look up Richie's method on youtube (although he does use a rotary instead). Also one very light mist of water onto the pad every now and then really helped.

No swirls left, although some deeper scratches still exist after several section passes.

Cool,good to know ,thanks!
 
Ok here's some pic updates,of the front fender of vehicle.It was the last panel I did so may have rushed it a bit,plus I neglected to clean the pad.I will go over it again in a couple of days and see if I can get closer to 100% correction on it.

103_2950_800x600.jpg
103_2951_800x600.jpg
 
Obviously we don't know the condition of the paint before, but those last pics still have a decent amount of defects. Don't be afraid to really slow down the arm speed with these PC buffers. Keep the pad flat and apply a very generous amount of pressure. Otherwise, you're wasting your time and product because it won't correct anything. That car should correct pretty easy because it doesn't have hard paint.
 
Are you using enough product? Don't go super heavy when applying it to the pad but make sure your using enough. I know with m105 you don't have touse a lot but you also won't get much correction if your using to little . Also UC should correct most of those swirls. It finishes out nicely. The only other thing you could try is using a softer pad on Toyota paint.
 
I neglected to clean the pad.

Thats your biggest problem ,you have to work with clean pads or your just going to create more swirls especially on black paint.
Not only that but when your pad gets loaded up with spent polish and abraded off clear, the pad's correcting ability plummets to nearly zero correcting ability. Toyota paint is really not that soft either. Use the Kevin Brown Method of lightly priming the entire face of the pad before getting started on any one work section. Work it till it goes either clear or begins to dry up on the work section, wipe off the residue and check your work. If more correction is needed, brush the pad till all of the caked on residue is removed from the face of the pad, re prime the face of the pad with the UC and have at it again for an additional few passes.
 
Looks like everyone else has gotten in ahead of me. Just to reiterate what's been said, you'll need to clean your pad after every section or two, particularly if you're going to use just one pad for the whole car (I would recommend getting more pads, though).
 
I'm using a Porter Cable UDM dual action polisher with 51/2" Wolfgang orange light cutting pads with speed setting turned all the way up to six.

I'm sure I'm doing at lest 6 section passes with medium firm pressure, with about a quarters worth of polish on the pad and "kissing" the paint to spread in a about 2' x2' section.

I try to be mindfull of not working to fast and work the pad slowly over paint.

Now I realize I only used one pad,but was only polishing the vertical panels on one side of my small car.

Maybe I should have used another pad halfway through?


Here, read through this and see if there's anything that stands out that you might be doing wrong...


DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.

Here's a list of the most common problems,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.

2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.

3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.

4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.

5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.

6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.

7. Using too much product or using too little product.

8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order,

1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.


2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.

Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,

"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"

But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.



3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.

Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.



4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.



5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.

Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.

This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.

Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.



6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.



7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.

Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.

Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.



8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
  • Removed paint
  • Spent product
As these to things build up on the face of the pad they become gummy and this has a negative affect on pad rotating plus makes wiping the leftover residue on the paint more difficult. To maintain good pad rotation you want to clean your pad often and always wipe-off any leftover product residue off the paint after working a section. Never add fresh product to your pad and work a section that still has leftover product residue on it.


Pad Cleaning Articles

Why it's important to clean your pads often...

How to clean your foam pad on the fly

How to use the Grit Guard Universal Pad Washer


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