I need a lesson in Tact. Help

[akimel]

May I offer a comment from the consumer sideline:

We know that professional detailing is a very tough, competitive business. One reason it's tough is because we consumers really do not need professional detailers. We can take our vehicles down to the local touchless car wash and can get them washed and vacuumed for less than $20. As far as we can tell, our cars look very nice after they go through the wash. It is difficult to economically justify spending $75-$100 for a wash & wax when it only costs us only $20 at the tunnel. Simply consider how much money we save over time.

It is true that if you show us comparative pictures, we will agree with you that cars without swirls look better than cars with swirls; but the simple fact is, it really doesn't matter to us. Maybe you think it should matter, but it doesn't. And perhaps more importantly, there's no way we can maintain a swirl-free finish over the long-term. Why spend the dough to have the swirls removed when they will be back in all their glory within a month or two? If we run our cars through the tunnel on a regular basis, our cars will look decent--not great, perhaps, but decent--and their resale value will hold up. Check the Kelly Blue Book.

Please don't get angry with us when we try to nickel and dime you. During these difficult economic times, it's only natural that we will bargain with you and try to get the most competitive price for your services. This is a free market, ain't it? We understand that these economic times are equally difficult for you, perhaps even more difficult; but that doesn't mean that we are doing anything wrong when we haggle with you over your prices. Hondling is the name of the game. Surely you, as shrewd businessmen, understand this. It's all supply and demand and what the market will bear.

If you want us to appreciate the difference it makes to have our car professionally detailed, then you must gently educate us and help us to appreciate benefits of professional detailing.

Just remember: if you get angry and surly with us, we will take our business elsewhere.

 

[Impressions]

akimel....couldn't have said it better!

in the past I have lowered my price for a few cars, but, at the same time I informed the customer that they would not get the same job as the $150-$200. They will get--wash, hand wax, vacuum and outside windows only.
It sounds awefull when you explain it that way but thats all some people want.

I look at it this way;
1-It's still money in my pocket
2-It's a job that my competition will not get
3-possibility of a repeat customer---even though he/she is thrifty
4-possibility of a recomendation
5-what did I lose??

no, I don't like to do them but you take what you can get sometimes
you never know who the potential client is and what he MAY bring to the table at a later date

It's hard to "hold back" as a professional detailer but it doesn't hurt

 

[Bunky]

Anyone whose charging $100 for a wash and wax is either loosing money big time or they are using $5 turtle wax wash drying with old bath towels and maybe they smear some mothers pure carnuba on it with a 2 year old foam applicator that has so many different chemicals in it that they have officially created a new chemical compound.

How much time do you think is invested in a basic wash and wax job -- including not making the paint any worse in the process?

It really depends on what your definition of a wash/wax is before you can speculate on products/tools/technique.

 

[Troy@Protekt]

May I offer a comment from the consumer sideline:

We know that professional detailing is a very tough, competitive business. One reason it's tough is because we consumers really do not need professional detailers. We can take our vehicles down to the local touchless car wash and can get them washed and vacuumed for less than $20. As far as we can tell, our cars look very nice after they go through the wash. It is difficult to economically justify spending $75-$100 for a wash & wax when it only costs us only $20 at the tunnel. Simply consider how much money we save over time.

It is true that if you show us comparative pictures, we will agree with you that cars without swirls look better than cars with swirls; but the simple fact is, it really doesn't matter to us. Maybe you think it should matter, but it doesn't. And perhaps more importantly, there's no way we can maintain a swirl-free finish over the long-term. Why spend the dough to have the swirls removed when they will be back in all their glory within a month or two? If we run our cars through the tunnel on a regular basis, our cars will look decent--not great, perhaps, but decent--and their resale value will hold up. Check the Kelly Blue Book.

Please don't get angry with us when we try to nickel and dime you. During these difficult economic times, it's only natural that we will bargain with you and try to get the most competitive price for your services. This is a free market, ain't it? We understand that these economic times are equally difficult for you, perhaps even more difficult; but that doesn't mean that we are doing anything wrong when we haggle with you over your prices. Hondling is the name of the game. Surely you, as shrewd businessmen, understand this. It's all supply and demand and what the market will bear.

If you want us to appreciate the difference it makes to have our car professionally detailed, then you must gently educate us and help us to appreciate benefits of professional detailing.

Just remember: if you get angry and surly with us, we will take our business elsewhere.

I see where you are coming from but I don't agree in regards to resale value. A car taken care of properly is going to bring a higher price when sold or at the very least be much easier to sell.

Swirls (marring) shouldn't be the only consideration when comparing a service like mine to a car wash. I understand you may not want to pay a premium to have the swirls or marring removed but that's not the only thing you are paying for.

Being mobile adds further value to the service. You're not just getting a higher quality service but you are saving time and aggravation. Doesn't that have value?

With me you don't lift a finger and don't waste a minute of your time dealing with the care of your car. No driving to the car wash and waiting or touching up afterwards.

The surfaces aren't attacked by harsh chemicals and unlike a touchless car wash, your wheels actually get cleaned and not scared.

- Much more convenient.
- Much better job than you will get from a car wash.
- Longer lasting protection.
- Better resale value.

People either want quality and convenience or they don't care. Should it really be up to me to convince them they want it?

If people want to go out to a nice dinner most of them won't go looking for a restaurant that is trying to compete with the fast food restaurants. If they do then they know they will most likely get fast food quality food.

For the record, I don't get angry or surly with my customers no matter what. Doesn't mean I don't get irritated (inside) with them when they try to be cheap.

 

[fancyfootwork]

I see where you are coming from but I don't agree in regards to resale value. A car taken care of properly is going to bring a higher price when sold or at the very least be much easier to sell.

Swirls (marring) shouldn't be the only consideration when comparing a service like mine to a car wash. I understand you may not want to pay a premium to have the swirls or marring to be removed but that's not the only thing you are paying for.

Being mobile adds further value to the service. You're not just getting a higher quality service but you are saving time and aggravation. Doesn't that have value?

With me you don't lift a finger and don't waste a minute of your time dealing with the care of your car. No driving to the car wash and waiting or touching up afterwards.

The surfaces aren't attacked by harsh chemicals and unlike a touchless car wash, your wheels actually get cleaned and not scared.

- Much more convenient.
- Much better job than you will get from a car wash.
- Longer lasting protection.
- Better resale value.

People either want quality and convenience or they don't care. Should it really be up to me to convince them they want it?

If people want to go out to a nice dinner most of them won't go looking for a restaurant that is trying to compete with the fast food restaurants. If they do then they know they will most likely get fast food quality food.

For the record, I don't get angry or surly with my customers no matter what. Doesn't mean I don't get irritated (inside) with them when they try to be cheap.

You make a valid comparison with the restaurant/fast food analogy.

I think the laptop with pictures is a good idea. Also a standard portfolio of your best work can really do numbers.

The biggest gain in my eyes is word of mouth from satisfied customers. Who is a customer most likely going to be persuaded from, you or their best friend whom you just detailed their car?

 

[akimel]

I see where you are coming from but I don't agree in regards to resale value. A car taken care of properly is going to bring a higher price when sold or at the very least be much easier to sell.

Swirls (marring) shouldn't be the only consideration when comparing a service like mine to a car wash. I understand you may not want to pay a premium to have the swirls or marring removed but that's not the only thing you are paying for.

Being mobile adds further value to the service. You're not just getting a higher quality service but you are saving time and aggravation. Doesn't that have value?

With me you don't lift a finger and don't waste a minute of your time dealing with the care of your car. No driving to the car wash and waiting or touching up afterwards.

The surfaces aren't attacked by harsh chemicals and unlike a touchless car wash, your wheels actually get cleaned and not scared.

- Much more convenient.
- Much better job than you will get from a car wash.
- Longer lasting protection.
- Better resale value.

People either want quality and convenience or they don't care. Should it really be up to me to convince them they want it?

If people want to go out to a nice dinner most of them won't go looking for a restaurant that is trying to compete with the fast food restaurants. If they do then they know they will most likely get fast food quality food.

For the record, I don't get angry or surly with my customers no matter what. Doesn't mean I don't get irritated (inside) with them when they try to be cheap.

You make all excellent points. These are precisely the points you professional detailers need to communicate to the public.

But I do think you need to research the resale argument. For example, let's say I want to sell a 2008 Taurus (40k miles). The internet Kelly Book provides prices under three categories--excellent, good, and fair. Let's assume that a car that is professionally detailed on a regular basis would qualify as excellent and a car that is taken regularly to the local car wash, perhaps waxed twice a year by the owner, would qualify as good. According to Kelly Book a basic 2008 Taurus might expect to sell for $13,255 in excellent condition, $12,405 in good condition, and $11,105 in fair condition. Note that there is only an $850 difference between the excellent and good prices. So the question is, which form of detailing is the better value? We would need to calculate and compare the respective costs over a four year period. If the four year cost of the professional detailing exceeds the four year cost of the local car wash by $850, then it's hard to maintain that the consumer gains by choosing the professional detailer.

Please don't get me wrong. I want all of you guys to flourish and prosper. But we ordinary consumers need to be persuaded to put out the extra bucks for what, on the surface, appears to be a luxury service. Keep up the good work!

 

[C. Charles Hahn]

May I offer a comment from the consumer sideline:

We know that professional detailing is a very tough, competitive business. One reason it's tough is because we consumers really do not need professional detailers. We can take our vehicles down to the local touchless car wash and can get them washed and vacuumed for less than $20. As far as we can tell, our cars look very nice after they go through the wash. It is difficult to economically justify spending $75-$100 for a wash & wax when it only costs us only $20 at the tunnel. Simply consider how much money we save over time.

Ah, but that's where you'd be wrong as an uneducated consumer. $20 may get your car washed and the carpets vacuumed, but it won't get stains removed, conditioner applied to your leather or protectant on your dash, or scotchgard on the carpets. A professional detail offers you all of these additional services as options most tunnel washes don't offer.

Not to mention that while spending $20 a week or every couple weeks to go through the tunnel may seem like you're saving money, you can actually save MORE money by having a basic professional detail done once every 1-2 months or upgrading to a detail with a longer lasting paint sealant, allowing you to go 3-6 months between details. In the meantime, because the paint is better protected than it is with the spray wax you get in the tunnel, you can get by with touchless wash services for maintenance which only cost $3-5 on average (at least in my area) instead. Doing the math using your pricing examples, this equates to:

Weekly $20 tunnel wash = $1,040 per year
Weekly $5 touchless wash = $260 per year
$100 professional detail every 2 months = $600 per year
Professional details + Touchless washes = $860 per year
Savings = $180

Pretty significant difference, eh?

Please don't get angry with us when we try to nickel and dime you. During these difficult economic times, it's only natural that we will bargain with you and try to get the most competitive price for your services.

Totally understood; however there's also a point where nickel and diming becomes an insult. Granted, a business professional's job is to take insults in stride and handle them gracefully, but when a customer shows a clear lack of regard for the concept of companies having to cover their overhead, there comes a point at which you simply must "ship them up the road" to the next guy, even if it makes you come across as rude or angry.

Obviously it's important to *try* turning people away gracefully, but there are some difficult customers with whom that may not always be realistic.

If you want us to appreciate the difference it makes to have our car professionally detailed, then you must gently educate us and help us to appreciate benefits of professional detailing.

This is the most important point. It is the job of a detailer to take on the role of salesperson when attempting to acquire new clientele. Adapting one's marketing approach to their market and its current conditions is the key to success in this industry.

In current economic times, a professional's greatest selling points for a "general public/joe consumer" market will be that the waxes/sealants they use offer much longer lasting protection than a tunnel wash, resulting in the savings as listed above. Value-added services such as paint touch-up work to prevent rust and corrosion on metal body panels, headlight restoration for improved night-driving safety, removal/reduction of RIDS (short of a whole-vehicle full corrective detail), etc. are also a big deal for many consumers these days as they're looking to ensure they can preserve their existing vehicles as long as possible, thus putting off the extra cost of replacing the vehicle altogether.

 

[Perfections]

The first question that comes outta my mouth when talking to a customer is...is this your daily driver? How do you currently go about maintaining this vehicle and have you been happy with the results? Then ask what services they are looking for and their expectation level of those services and base your prices accordingly after educating them on how long it will take to achieve their expectations, with photos of before and after results performed on other vehicles. When customers ask over the phone what my services run I just say from 25 dollars to 400 dollars depending on your expectations. I'm a big time perfectionist but the general public/clients I receive use their vehicles for daily driving and just want the car to be "Shiny" and I want to kill myself doing a multi stage polishing job on each car because those are the results I want, but the reality is generally most cant afford to do those services and we have to adjust our prices/performance accordingly

 

[AndrewBall]

How much time do you think is invested in a basic wash and wax job -- including not making the paint any worse in the process?

It really depends on what your definition of a wash/wax is before you can speculate on products/tools/technique.

that depends entirely on the car. I have a flat rate for everything i do. but it can be adjusted on an hourly scale. So if I clay a car and find it looks like it was parked under a pine tree for 4 years I will be there a while and then charge 2, 3 hours if i have to. As i said, some things i do are based on the job. ok X job is $35. but somethings are x job is $25 an hour.

a quickie wash and wax to me is a something done to a car that is already maintained, or detailed. Its something of a follow up. say you do a car and 2 months later you wash it and apply a quick coat of wax on top of it again to further prolong the sealants and such.

What most people think of a wash and wax is taking a very dirty car that might need some serious help. Washing it, poorly. and then just applying some cleaner wax. This might make the car appear shiny to them. and as the one gentleman in the thread said. to most that is more then enough, until they see the difference. My uncle is a classic example of this. he loves for his cars to be clean. he waxes and such. but he uses horrible brushes and chemicals and rags and such to get to his final product of a car that appears to be clean so long as your 20 feet from it. Then you see the scratches and swirls and over time those will do irreparable damage.

Now not all people think this way but if you were to poll the general public most of them would probably be totally fine with driving though any sort of car wash at least once a month. Lets just hope they arent going to any $5 car washes held by any number of organizations where 13 year old girls assault your vehicle with all sorts of evil things.

many people here have made excellent points. Our job as professionals is to educate our clients on the benefits of this. My favorite way of doing so is referring to the car as their investment. and by letting me work on it, they are protecting that investments value, and prolonging it life. This is something that almost anyone can understand and appreciate. because in 4-5 years if they try to sell the car they might look back on it and say you know that $XXX i spent having it taken care of a by a professional detailer doesn't seem so bad.

 

[Bunky]

Now not all people think this way but if you were to poll the general public most of them would probably be totally fine with driving though any sort of car wash at least once a month. Lets just hope they arent going to any $5 car washes held by any number of organizations where 13 year old girls assault your vehicle with all sorts of evil things.

For the uneducated (the ones that go to the drive through) it often takes some event to get them seriously interested in detailing.

People may be interested in the cheap but if they got their cars detailed several times (just a good wash, interior clean, some wax by someone who knows how not to damage the car in the process) they can come to appreciate and want the service. The question is how do you convert them.

The problem with car washes is that the damage is rarely instantaneous but occurs over time so the results are not immediate noticed so no connection to the car wash. They know their car does not look showroom new at some point but not always know why.

 

[AeroCleanse]

If its a dealership, then say let me detail 1/2 the hood after the other guy is done, then you can see for yourself.

I was reading another post about prices and vented a little and decided to ask in a new thread.

I run into a lot of people that scoff at 100 detail because "This one guy comes around and details all our cars for 20 bucks a car. 40 for a coat of wax." ARGH!!!! I spend more than 40 in product alone. What this $40 dollar guy is doing is NOT detailing. Im sorry.

Ive tried VERY hard to think of a way to educate the ignorant but I get too passionate about it and cant think of a tactful way to deal with it. I cant seem to find the clients that know whats involved and know what goes into it and KNOWS Im by far not the most expensive. I want to do the work but I dont want to do it for free.

 

[Kris R]

The first question that comes outta my mouth when talking to a customer is...is this your daily driver? How do you currently go about maintaining this vehicle and have you been happy with the results? Then ask what services they are looking for and their expectation level of those services and base your prices accordingly after educating them on how long it will take to achieve their expectations, with photos of before and after results performed on other vehicles. When customers ask over the phone what my services run I just say from 25 dollars to 400 dollars depending on your expectations. I'm a big time perfectionist but the general public/clients I receive use their vehicles for daily driving and just want the car to be "Shiny" and I want to kill myself doing a multi stage polishing job on each car because those are the results I want, but the reality is generally most cant afford to do those services and we have to adjust our prices/performance accordingly

VERY Well said friend. That was a very helpful post!

 

[jonn127]

You make all excellent points. These are precisely the points you professional detailers need to communicate to the public.

But I do think you need to research the resale argument. For example, let's say I want to sell a 2008 Taurus (40k miles). The internet Kelly Book provides prices under three categories--excellent, good, and fair. Let's assume that a car that is professionally detailed on a regular basis would qualify as excellent and a car that is taken regularly to the local car wash, perhaps waxed twice a year by the owner, would qualify as good. According to Kelly Book a basic 2008 Taurus might expect to sell for $13,255 in excellent condition, $12,405 in good condition, and $11,105 in fair condition. Note that there is only an $850 difference between the excellent and good prices. So the question is, which form of detailing is the better value? We would need to calculate and compare the respective costs over a four year period. If the four year cost of the professional detailing exceeds the four year cost of the local car wash by $850, then it's hard to maintain that the consumer gains by choosing the professional detailer.

Please don't get me wrong. I want all of you guys to flourish and prosper. But we ordinary consumers need to be persuaded to put out the extra bucks for what, on the surface, appears to be a luxury service. Keep up the good work!

lol, I guess my first thought to this is that quality detailers typically are not going to be working on a 2008 Taurus. Take Armstrong for example, his avatar is a ferrari. So if you want to talk money saved in using a detailer on a ferrari or a tunnel wash, I don't know 100% but pretty sure you will not win that argument.
If your main client base is going to be a 2008 Taurus, you might be better off trying to open your own tunnel wash business instead of a detailing business, and when I say "you" I'm just generally speaking of course.

 

[akimel]

lol, I guess my first thought to this is that quality detailers typically are not going to be working on a 2008 Taurus. Take Armstrong for example, his avatar is a ferrari. So if you want to talk money saved in using a detailer on a ferrari or a tunnel wash, I don't know 100% but pretty sure you will not win that argument.
If your main client base is going to be a 2008 Taurus, you might be better off trying to open your own tunnel wash business instead of a detailing business, and when I say "you" I'm just generally speaking of course.

LOL. If you are have become a detailer for Ferraris and their wealthy owners, then you are fortunate indeed. But that is a limited, exclusive market. It certainly is not large enough to support the many professionals who contribute to forums like AutoGeek and Autopia. I suspect that there are a lot of high quality detailers out there whose business depends principally on middle-class folks who drive Toyotas, Hondas, and Fords.

And there are plenty of Mercedes and Cadillac owners who take their vehicles to the local car wash. I daresay, most of them do.

 

[jonn127]

Oh I agree with you, it was just that you used about the most quickly depreciating car out there as an example. I'm definitely new to the game so I'll claim ignorance, just when looking at all these peoples websites, I don't see too many Taurus, Toyotas, Fords, etc. If there are Fords out there they seem to be the $45-50k Super Duty, or late model Mustang GT/500. I'm sure its obvious why people would only show the high dollar car on their websites, but I would think that results are results and they would be on there regardless. Is that a bad assumption?

 

[akimel]

Of course professional detailers are going to post pictures of the most expensive cars they have recently detailed, the more expensive or sportier the better. Those are the cars we like seeing, and it's good for their business. But one still doesn't see many Ferraris and other exotics on AutoGeek. They aren't, I suspect, the bread and butter of most professional detailers.

 

[Rob T]

Good posts Akimel.

It's a "dog eat dog" world out there. This happens with all businesses.

My friend owns his own flooring/granite business, and he runs into this type of thing on a regular basis. There is always someone out there willing to do it cheaper...but will they do it better? Will those people get a better value by going with the cheapest place, or will they get a better value by going with my friend whose prices are higher but whose craftsmanship is impeccable?