I think I ate through the paint!!

I had an RSX in Magnesium Metallic. Fortunately, I never had any paint issues. I did polish the car once and I always kept it sealed, waxed, clean etc. Almost 7 years in the South Florida sun and it had no clearcoat failure. However, I guess the paint was pretty soft as it would scratch easily. I hope my new Accord doesn't have the same issues long term.
 
It's really not surprising....:cry:

At one time or another most of us will experience this disaster while detailing. I’m sure many of you have heard the term “burn through” and it’s generally associated with breaching the clear coat. The term burn through is a throwback from the days when the rotary polisher was king and the dual action polisher wasn’t even thought of.

Burning through the paint in those days was primarily due to friction. A rotating wool bonnet under pressure and in contact with the paint results in friction and we all know what happens when we rub our hands together quickly; things begin to get hot. As the temperature increases the paint softens and before you know it; “Burn Through”! :doh:

Dual action polishers by design operate in an orbital manor and do not rotate. Now before anyone posts an objection let me elaborate.

Under certain applied pressures or free wheeling, a dual action polishers pad will rotate but with minimal force. The main motion of these machines is oscillation, generally at high speeds and in small circles but generate almost no heat.


Automotive Paint


Over the years automotive manufactures have been on a quest to lower manufacturing cost and just one of those areas is paint. By doing so, these improvements translate directly to their bottom line as profits.

The actual film thickness of paint is what I call SCARY THIN, meaning it doesn’t take much effort to accidentally sand or compound through a layer. A layer of paint is so thin today it’s measured in microns rather than thousands of an inch.


Corrosion


How many of you can remember the days when a panel on a brand new car would show sighs of rust or corrosion in the first 2 years? You don’t have to go that far back because this was pretty much the norm in the 70’s and 80’s.

To combat this, car manufactures teamed up with paint suppliers like DuPont to develop coatings and processes to greatly reduce or eliminate corrosion and rust through.


Microns


Microns are typically associated with either of the two following symbols; µ or µm

Just how big or small is a micron? 0.001mm, or about 0.000039in

To illustrate this lets put this in perspective by comparing a known and relate it to microns. On average, a human hair is about 100 microns or 100µm.

1µ = 0.00003937in
10µ = 0.0003937in
100µ = 0.003937in

Now that we know how think a human hair is, see how it compares to the paint film thickness on most cars today....It's thicker than any individual coating applied and might be equal to all of the coating thicknesses combined! :eek:


Paint Application

Automotive paint is applied in layers and each one is designed to to work with out bond to the previous later. Today protective coating and paint layers can total 5 or more and at varying thicknesses. The photo below illustrates not only the coating but the average film thickness....

Layer03.jpg



  1. Phosphate - 1µ or 0.00003937in
  2. Electrocoat or E-Coat - 25µ or 0.0009843in
  3. Primer - 25µ or 0.0009843in
  4. Base or Color Coat - 20µ or 0.0007874in
  5. Clear Coat - 50µ = 0.001969in

Phosphate

Phosphate coatings offer excellent corrosion resistance. These coatings are usually applied to carbon steel, low-alloy steel, and cast iron. Phosphate coatings are most often applied by either spraying or immersing the substrate into a solution of dilute phosphoric acid combined with other chemicals that assist in the coating process.


Electrocoat or E-Coat


An unfinished panel is immersed in a bath containing the electrophoretic paint emulsion, and then an electric current is passed through both the product and the emulsion. The paint particles that are in contact with the product adhere to the surface, building up an electrically insulating layer thus improving the corrosion resistance of the metal..

If you look hard enough on You-Tube I'm sure you'll find a factory video showing the frame and body of a car being submerged in a bath to effectively these coating in every nook and cranny.

Primer, base coat and clear coat are pretty self explanatory so I won't go into detail.

Steel Thickness

The thickness of the sheet steel that makes up the majority of cars today has over the years become thinner and thinner. Some of this initiative is related to the overall weight but also fall right in line with lowering costs of raw materials.

What body and paint shops typically see in a single stage paint job.

In this photo you'll see the typical finish layers applied at the factory. Many times though shops uncover damage and additional paint repair that can add several subsequent layers that must be dealt with properly.

Layer02.jpg



This is a great example to illustrate different types of surface defects and their relative size when compared to one another.


Layers.jpg



Paint is only so thick. If you're using a heavy cut pad and an aggressive compound on a dual action polisher and hold it in one spot just a little too long what do you think will happen? Sand Through

Be careful out there.....:props:
 
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It's really not surprising....:cry:

Paint is only so think. If you're using a heavy cut pad and an aggressive compound on a dual action polisher and hold it in one spot just a little too long what do you think will happen? Sand Through

Be careful out there.....:props:

I love your reply Bobby. Well done!!!


Sent from my iPhone using AG Online
 
Burning the paint

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mIDs_m8WRA]Paint Burning - YouTube[/video]

It would be near impossible to burn such a large area such as what the OP posted with a DA. He simply removed too much material whether it was from improper use or there was a problem with a paint to begin with. :)
 
Looks like you buffed through the clear.

The outer perimeter line you see in your picture I've inserted for you is the edge of the clear layer and the center portion is basecoat.



The more you buff the larger the perimeter line will grow.


As mentioned by others, if you truly have burned through the clear coat you can easily verify by rubbing a white polish on a white cloth to the middle of the suspected burn through patch and if you see the color on the cloth this means the clear layer is missing.

If you only see the color of the polish and cloth then you have some wacky paint issues going on.


:)
Yea at first I thought it was just the 105 being funky, when it grew, I knew it was jacked. Why there though? I used that combo on a couple of other spots and no problems. Oh well.
Any ideas how I can prevent that from happening in the future? A paint thickness gauge maybe? Thank God it wasn't on a customers car!
 
Thanks for all the great feedback!
I only went to the 105 with a microfiber pad, because I had hit it with a orange hex logic, V34 and the PC. The etching from the bird dropping was still very evident, but I couldn't feel it when I went over it with my finger. Looks like a thickness gauge is going on my top of my Christmas list.
 
Props for knowing the difference between striking through the clear/paint and actually burning the clear/paint.

It's really hard to tell, but I'd say the clear was *possibly* already failing, which as others have mentioned, older Hondas/Acuras are known for. You don't have any before photos of that panel, do you? Don't feel bad. Live and learn.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
They are still on my camera. This car was going to be my ultimate restore. It was BAD. I thought it was charcoal gray and the wheels were gold. Its Nighthawk Black and chrome wheels.
 
Paint thickness gauges are handy to have but be careful what make and options it's capable of.

Many paint gauges measure only "total" paint thickness and cannot differentiate between individual layer which is vitally important. What's most important is having the capability of measuring the thickness of the clear coat...

Many of them also only work on steel panels..

Gauges at this level can run you several thousand dollars.....
 
Why there though?

I used that combo on a couple of other spots and no problems. Oh well.


If you didn't buy the car new then you don't know,

  • Who has buffed on it before you.
  • What was used to buff it before you.
  • How many times it's been buffed before you worked on it.

Horizontal surfaces tend to be buffed the most over a car's lifespan because they are the easiest to buff, see the most wear-n-tear, at least the wear-n-tear on horizontal panels are the most visible.


If you bought the car new, then disregard all of the above, I didn't re-read this thread to find out, just wanted to chime in before moving on.

This all circles back around to my only rant on detailing discussion forums and that is car manufacturers don't put enough paint on their cars and there's really nothing that can be done about it.


:)
 
Why there though?

The horizontal surfaces for the most part "receive" the most attention.

  1. Sun
  2. Rain
  3. Wash
  4. Polish
  5. Wax
The side panels on the other hand are less likely because they're vertical and harder to work on. If the hood was repainted and a less than stellar workmanship then this could also be part of the problem...
 
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