feslope
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- Jul 1, 2009
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Tell the dealer you want to see a factory rep, they will set it up.
i think my brand new car was repainted at the factory
- Thread starter kiteman
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feslope
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- Jul 1, 2009
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I was wondering the same thing. When the dealer said they were going to remove the door I couldn't figure out why. Could the dealer have meant they were going to replace it with a factory finished door?
- Thread starter
- #104
That isn't a terrible idea. But, then the question would be how likely is it that the door would match the color on the car now. I mean in theory, if they are both being sprayed by the same machine, they should be the same...but, that's only theory.
If that works, I like that the best of my options thus far. I will still have to bargain that I'm sure (if I'm still under warranty, I shouldn't have to "buy" a new door). I would like to go to the dealer tomorrow, but without sunlight, I'm not sure I can recreate the issue to the obvious level that I would like in order to show GM. I sent it to my original salesman, who said he couldn't see it (referring to the picture on Page 1 of this thread).
feslope
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- Jul 1, 2009
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You should not have to spend a nickel in any event. GM owes you a vehicle to be proud of. Where do you live that you are getting so much rain?
I have never heard of a finished panel being sent from the factory as a replacement. Even if they did do this, the paint could be slightly different. The doors are on the car when it is painted. They are not painted separately.
You need to talk to more than your salesman. The service manager and the general manager are the folks you need to talk to. It's fine to have a factory rep look at it too. He/she is the one who decides the action that will be taken. Of course you can appeal this action.
The most you will get out of it is a repaint. I have been through this hassle several times. On one of my vehicles I received a $1500 credit to have paintwork done at a time of my choosing. That was a very nice piece of insurance to have around. About the time I got ready to use it, I traded the car. I don't think that you will get an offer like this.
You will be offered a repaint and that will be it. Your best bet if you want the work done is to find a painter who is a true craftsman (not necessarily at the dealer's shop), have him paint it and have Chevrolet pay for it. I've done that too.
Now that you have dealt with this, remember it when you buy your next vehicle. Metallics are sure pretty but they are super hard to match perfectly.
Again, good luck. What would I do...darned if I know.
Check out this pic of a 2013 Camaro. Now how about that door and rear quarter? This is why I'd buy a black Mustang. 2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 Convertible Picture
Tom
You need to talk to more than your salesman. The service manager and the general manager are the folks you need to talk to. It's fine to have a factory rep look at it too. He/she is the one who decides the action that will be taken. Of course you can appeal this action.
The most you will get out of it is a repaint. I have been through this hassle several times. On one of my vehicles I received a $1500 credit to have paintwork done at a time of my choosing. That was a very nice piece of insurance to have around. About the time I got ready to use it, I traded the car. I don't think that you will get an offer like this.
You will be offered a repaint and that will be it. Your best bet if you want the work done is to find a painter who is a true craftsman (not necessarily at the dealer's shop), have him paint it and have Chevrolet pay for it. I've done that too.
Now that you have dealt with this, remember it when you buy your next vehicle. Metallics are sure pretty but they are super hard to match perfectly.
Again, good luck. What would I do...darned if I know.
Check out this pic of a 2013 Camaro. Now how about that door and rear quarter? This is why I'd buy a black Mustang. 2013 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 Convertible Picture
Tom
Matt
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- Aug 25, 2008
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That's clearly the lighting angle because the rear quarter is on a very different angle to the sun than the door. Look at the front of the fender by the headlight.....
Yep, I know. It's a "funky" curve, but it frequently makes the paint look like a mis-match.
Tom
feslope
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- Jul 1, 2009
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I have never heard of a factory painted panel being sent out either but, the PTG readings sure do not look like this car was painted as a unit.I have never heard of a finished panel being sent from the factory as a replacement. Even if they did do this, the paint could be slightly different. The doors are on the car when it is painted. They are not painted separately.
Tom
feslope
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Maybe but, only if they try it first.You will be offered a repaint and that will be it. Your best bet if you want the work done is to find a painter who is a true craftsman (not necessarily at the dealer's shop), have him paint it and have Chevrolet pay for it. I've done that too.
Now that you have dealt with this, remember it when you buy your next vehicle.
Tom
Matt
Active member
- Aug 25, 2008
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Yep, I know. It's a "funky" curve, but it frequently makes the paint look like a mis-match.
Tom
:dblthumb2:
- Thread starter
- #112
Over the night (possibly in my sleep) I thought of a few other options:
1. This suggestion is a stretch, but do you think the dealer would just pop a door off of another Camaro on the lot (unsold) and put it on my car? Then they can repaint the unsold car and go through the whole "if the damage is less than 10% of the car's value, we don't have to disclose it to the customer" thing with someone else that *may* never even purchase the car.
2. There is a GM plant in Arlington (I live in Dallas). They don't build Camaros there, but surely they have my paint color. Why can't they just respray the door in there with factory spray guns? This was sort-of suggested already, but thought the fact that a factory is right down the road from me would make it more probable.
I know it hasn't been mentioned, but having the door in a slightly different color would actually be better than having my current striped door (I think), which is why either of the previous options might be okay with me.
I know we have baseball bats in hand and are approaching the dead horse, but it still seems like everyone differs on whether or not a repaint is actually a good idea. Some say it will look better, some say there is no way. I can talk to the painter, but honestly he's probably going to say whatever allows him to get paid more. I guess if Chevy will pay my body shop of choice to repaint it, that would be the only almost sure-fire way of expecting great results.
1. This suggestion is a stretch, but do you think the dealer would just pop a door off of another Camaro on the lot (unsold) and put it on my car? Then they can repaint the unsold car and go through the whole "if the damage is less than 10% of the car's value, we don't have to disclose it to the customer" thing with someone else that *may* never even purchase the car.
2. There is a GM plant in Arlington (I live in Dallas). They don't build Camaros there, but surely they have my paint color. Why can't they just respray the door in there with factory spray guns? This was sort-of suggested already, but thought the fact that a factory is right down the road from me would make it more probable.
I know it hasn't been mentioned, but having the door in a slightly different color would actually be better than having my current striped door (I think), which is why either of the previous options might be okay with me.
I know we have baseball bats in hand and are approaching the dead horse, but it still seems like everyone differs on whether or not a repaint is actually a good idea. Some say it will look better, some say there is no way. I can talk to the painter, but honestly he's probably going to say whatever allows him to get paid more. I guess if Chevy will pay my body shop of choice to repaint it, that would be the only almost sure-fire way of expecting great results.
Setec Astronomy
Well-known member
- Aug 31, 2010
- 17,051
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Been there, done that--with a hood. Car got damaged in transit (good thing I was checking the dealer every night and saw it, or I'm sure they woudn't have told me and just repainted it). Told them I wouldn't accept a repaint, I wanted factory paint, so they wanted to swap the hood with another car on the lot, which I felt I couldn't argue with. So they did, and it didn't match and they ordered me another car. But if it works for you, then it's golden.
Sorry, that will never happen. Assembly plants are just not set up for repairs...paperwork, charge numbers, everything is geared for the workflow of making cars, not repairing them.
The reason I suggested you talk to the actual painter who would do the repair is to see what he says about the difficulty of matching the color. If he just says "don't worry, man" then you worry. If he says, "yeah, this is tough to match, but I have sprayed xx cars in this metallic black, and I do A, B, and C and you will never be able to tell my panel from the factory panels". To borrow a comment from someone on another forum, this is an instance where you don't want a painter that has done this once, or 5 times, or 20 times, you want someone that has matched difficult metallics hundreds of times.
Time to "start fishing, no more cutting bait". You will not be happy until the stripes are gone. Have it repainted and talk a lot to the person who will be doing the paint. As I said before, the door needs both base coat and clear coat. The base coat must be blended into the adjoining panels (front fender and rear quarter panel). The entire adjoining panels must be clear coated. The door handle and rear view mirror must be removed. The "Camaro" emblem on the front fender must be removed. No masking around this stuff. Insist that a new emblem be ordered. This emblem comes in a package that allows for proper placement. Ask about how they will handle the clear coat where it is going to meet the "bumpers" and how they will blend the clear coat into the top of the rear fender where it meets the roof. Blending clear coat into panels is very tricky. If you talk to the painter and mention all of this, he will realize that you are darn "fussy" and that you know a heck of a lot more than the average guy who walks out the door with a new Camaro.
You might even ask about the brand and type of paint that will be used. Not all paint is created equal. The really good high-end shops are getting into using some very impressive products. This is good for a whole new thread with a few paint experts chiming in.
Play nice with the salesman but remember that he probably doesn't know "squat" about repainting vehicles
I'm sure that others can add a few more tips. Just "git-r-done". :xyxthumbs:
(No repaint for me. I'm still sanding out the dist nibs in my 2012 Ram's hood, but if I had big ol' stripes in the hood, it would be repainted.)
Tom
p.s. It took me 50 years and 21 new cars and trucks to get this way. Plus I've been a perfectionist since birth.
- Thread starter
- #115
Dumb question, but does anyone think a hefty polishing could effect the stripes? It seems like the problem is in the PAINT and not the clear coat, and of course i have no intentions of polishing through the clear coat to get to the paint. Worth asking though, sure would be a heck of a lot easier of a solution/bandaid if so.
David Fermani
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- Apr 19, 2007
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Then door issues you’re seeing almost looks like what they consider “modeling” where the metallic is uneven within the panel. Not sure until you see it in person though.
Cars get repaired AND refinished at the factory all the time. Many even get repaired under warranty through the dealer. From my understanding it doesn’t need to be declared either, unless the damage occurred on the dealer’s lot and inquired by the buyer. Some states even make dealers put an addendum sticker on the vehicle to fully disclose it. Depending on what state you’re in, will determine what threshold the dealer is required to disclose damage to the potential buyer. There are many variables and it can range from a % of MSRP, $500 and even exclude glass, tires or bumpers many times.
As far as the other problem you’re seeing with your Camaro, I can’t believe nobody has mentioned anything about the TSB that GM has for this color mismatching issue on this model.
Service Information
Document ID: 2346049
#09-08-51-004: Information on Door and Quarter Panel Paint Appearance - (Sep 10, 2009)
Subject: Information on Door and Quarter Panel Paint Appearance
Models: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro
On the 2010 Camaro, the shade of paint on the doors may appear to be different than the shade of paint on the quarter panels. This appearance varies in severity based on different viewing angles and light conditions. This perception is more apparent with certain colors. Use this bulletin to help the customer understand the design of their vehicle.
Paint Process
At the time of vehicle manufacture, the complete sheet metal body of the car is painted at the same time (the body, hood, decklid and doors). The panels (doors, hood and decklid) are attached to the vehicle and in the proper position when it goes through the plant paint process. All of the panels receive the undercoat layers and top coat finishes using the same material, application process and final bake process. This continuity of process ensures a uniform paint application to the entire vehicle. The result of this extensive process is a seamless paint match over the entire vehicle. The only major exterior panels that do not get painted during this process are the bumper fascias. The bumper fascias receive a flexible paint application using a unique process. All of the paint used in the paint process is matched to a paint color standard, ensuring that the colors are consistent from batch to batch. This color standard also ensures consistency from vehicle to vehicle.
Vehicle Design
On the Camaro, the door to quarter panel angle match is the design intent. The geometry of the quarter panel provides a sporty definition and highlights the depth of the design. It is intended to show the color variation created by angling the body panels a few degrees.
Addressing Customer Concerns
Use the following photographs and descriptions to demonstrate to the vehicle owner that what they are seeing on their vehicle is not a color mis-match, but a intended design feature.
This first photograph shows a paint test panel finished in "Wildfire" metallic. The white arrow points to the paint "standard". This is the paint sample used to ensure color consistency.
This photograph shows the same paint test panel with a slight crease in the center, creating an angle in the panel similar to the Camaro door to quarter panel relationship. The finish on the right side of the panel has "shifted", creating a different hue of the same color. Note the arrow shows the paint standard on the left side of the paint test panel in the same position as the first photograph.
This final photograph shows the same paint test panel described in the second photograph. In this photograph, the arrow points to the same paint "standard" used in the first two photographs but it has been repositioned to the right side of the paint test panel. Note the paint "standard" has shifted along with the finish on the paint test panel.
Cars get repaired AND refinished at the factory all the time. Many even get repaired under warranty through the dealer. From my understanding it doesn’t need to be declared either, unless the damage occurred on the dealer’s lot and inquired by the buyer. Some states even make dealers put an addendum sticker on the vehicle to fully disclose it. Depending on what state you’re in, will determine what threshold the dealer is required to disclose damage to the potential buyer. There are many variables and it can range from a % of MSRP, $500 and even exclude glass, tires or bumpers many times.
As far as the other problem you’re seeing with your Camaro, I can’t believe nobody has mentioned anything about the TSB that GM has for this color mismatching issue on this model.
Service Information
Document ID: 2346049
#09-08-51-004: Information on Door and Quarter Panel Paint Appearance - (Sep 10, 2009)
Subject: Information on Door and Quarter Panel Paint Appearance
Models: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro
On the 2010 Camaro, the shade of paint on the doors may appear to be different than the shade of paint on the quarter panels. This appearance varies in severity based on different viewing angles and light conditions. This perception is more apparent with certain colors. Use this bulletin to help the customer understand the design of their vehicle.
Paint Process
At the time of vehicle manufacture, the complete sheet metal body of the car is painted at the same time (the body, hood, decklid and doors). The panels (doors, hood and decklid) are attached to the vehicle and in the proper position when it goes through the plant paint process. All of the panels receive the undercoat layers and top coat finishes using the same material, application process and final bake process. This continuity of process ensures a uniform paint application to the entire vehicle. The result of this extensive process is a seamless paint match over the entire vehicle. The only major exterior panels that do not get painted during this process are the bumper fascias. The bumper fascias receive a flexible paint application using a unique process. All of the paint used in the paint process is matched to a paint color standard, ensuring that the colors are consistent from batch to batch. This color standard also ensures consistency from vehicle to vehicle.
Vehicle Design
On the Camaro, the door to quarter panel angle match is the design intent. The geometry of the quarter panel provides a sporty definition and highlights the depth of the design. It is intended to show the color variation created by angling the body panels a few degrees.
Addressing Customer Concerns
Use the following photographs and descriptions to demonstrate to the vehicle owner that what they are seeing on their vehicle is not a color mis-match, but a intended design feature.
This first photograph shows a paint test panel finished in "Wildfire" metallic. The white arrow points to the paint "standard". This is the paint sample used to ensure color consistency.
This photograph shows the same paint test panel with a slight crease in the center, creating an angle in the panel similar to the Camaro door to quarter panel relationship. The finish on the right side of the panel has "shifted", creating a different hue of the same color. Note the arrow shows the paint standard on the left side of the paint test panel in the same position as the first photograph.
This final photograph shows the same paint test panel described in the second photograph. In this photograph, the arrow points to the same paint "standard" used in the first two photographs but it has been repositioned to the right side of the paint test panel. Note the paint "standard" has shifted along with the finish on the paint test panel.
- Thread starter
- #118
Thanks, David. My only concern about the paint is the tiger striping effect. I think others mentioned earlier in the thread that the quarter panel didn't match the door, but I have not personally noticed this to be a problem upon further inspection. Either way, the TSB is nice information to be aware of.
Rix6
New member
- Dec 18, 2011
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- 0
Have you tried doing another polish...not the polish you did several weeks ago, but a nice, even polish? If the clear isn't polished the same, it won't reflect the same. When you look at polished clear-coat paint, what your eyes see is a combination of the virtual image refracted from the clear coat and what the basecoat adds. Furthermore, that light that gets reflected back from the basecoat is going to again be refracted by the clear as it exits back out. Lol, if you didn't take high-school or college physics then you might not understand half of what I just said (and to be fair I didn't say it very well either). What I'm trying to get across is the importance of a nice evenly polished, level surface on the clear to the overall picture that you see. The visual aberrations that you see might be solely a result of an unevenly polished surface. That's why I suggested on an earlier page to polish it up again real good. Polish that door and see if it in any way changes the tiger striping effect you see.
-Rick
David Fermani
New member
- Apr 19, 2007
- 703
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I would seriously doubt that polishing (or even paint correction in general) with remove this issue. Paint defects of this magnitude are not correctable. If anything, it will magnify it because it’s under the clear. As you polish the clearcoat more perfectly, it not only gives it more clarity, but intensifies the basecoat. Even more so with metallic colors. Again, we’re talking about a layer of clear paint about the thickness of a sheet of paper. You could have something so heavy as shrinkage and not have it show up in pictures anywhere close to how the OP's picture reflect.