If its true that maintenance polishing is recommended...then

[silverfox]

What is the conventional thinking on this topic when we are talking about coatings (versus maintaining clear coat).



Coatings are the sacrificial barrier and thus are susceptible to the same hardships that paint are. With paint and clear coat mike has demonstrated the importance of maintenance polishing to keep it looking fresh.



With that logic and the growing popularity of coatings I think more discussion on maintaing coatings without damaging is warranted. Can maintenance polishing still be considered in the same way as maintaining painted surfaces?

 

[brassmonkey]

I've wondered about this same topic. Hopefully we can get some insight to it.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Great question Jim...

I've seen opinions posted that you can polish i.e. correct which to me means abrade the surface of a coating to remove defects out of it and I think the context of these opinions are saying that this type of abrading of the coating will remove the defects without removing the coating or more specifically removing all of the coating.

Due to the thinness of the coating I'm not sure I can agree with these opinions myself. At least not to the point that after abrading a coated surface I wouldn't want to reapply some replacement coating.

When topics like this come up, because the nature of some forum types is to be on the AR side, I like to put things in extremes to make it easy for everyone to understand.

Like this,

Does polishing a coated surface add more coating to the surface?

If not, what's the opposite of the word add?


Our Mercedes has had nothing but Black Label Surface Coating and Coating Booster on it since we bought it and did the Thursday night makeover on it last October.

If I were to do any type of polishing to the paint, even to just a small area or section, afterwards, I would reapply more coating. It only takes a few minutes and it makes common sense.

It may be possible to use a non-abrasive paint cleaner to clean the surface of a coating but what I've always posted about topics like this for the last 14 years in the forum world is that rubbing any type of liquid cleaner with some type of application material has a cleaning effect. That's a good thing. But while it might be cleaning or maintaining the coating, it certainly isn't adding more coating in the process and to me the opposite of adding is subtracting.

I think Rob from GTechniq said it best when he said,

The best way to maintain a coating is by regular careful washing of a coated surface.

I'll try to dig up the exact post.

 

[addysdaddy]

Hey Mike, in the context of coatings being a sacrificial barrier do you think they (as a product group) help to minimize paint chips from occurring more than sealants or waxes?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hey Mike, in the context of coatings being a sacrificial barrier do you think they (as a product group) help to minimize paint chips from occurring more than sealants or waxes?

Depends on what the root cause of the paint chip is?

If it's a rock being thrown at you from a car driving 60 miles an hour in front of you and you're behind them driving at 60 miles an hour then I would say "no".

I think a clear bra or even a vinyl bra stops rock chips pretty well. That's one thing I like about my truck. There's only a strip of paint about 4" wide and about 6' long in the front of the truck that could ever get any impact from debris coming at the front of the truck and it sits to high for any of this to be an issue anyways.

 

[addysdaddy]

The problem with the clear or vinyl bras imo is that they are very unsightly. And even if you wrap the entire hood and both front quarter panels with one piece of material eliminating any cut lines, you wind up shooting my detailing hobby in the head. What's an autogeek to do?

 

[c8n]

Interesting topic and allow me to add.
What about clay? Is it ok to clay a coated car? Or is there a need to?

 

[FUNX650]

Hey Mike, in the context of coatings being a sacrificial barrier do you think they (as a product group) help to minimize paint chips from occurring more than sealants or waxes?

Optimum has stated their Coatings
-Add around 2 microns thickness
-Are around 100 times thicker than most other LSPs

"Doing the numbers":
-2 microns = 0.079 mils = 0.000079 inches
-2 microns/100 = 0.00079 mils = 0.00000079 inches

More perspectives:
-Waxes/Sealants.....~0.00079 mils
-Opti-Coatings........~0.079 mils
-CC Paint/3M Note...~1.5-2.0 mils
-PPF/"Clearbra".......~6.0-8.0 mils

With all of the findings that not even PPF (at ~400 times thicker than Opti-Coatings) is bullet proof...
It would appear that the majority of Coatings would be even less likely to provide a suitable barrier against:
"rock chipping".
Many Coating manufacturers have already said that is the case.


Bob

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Interesting topic and allow me to add.
What about clay? Is it ok to clay a coated car? Or is there a need to?

Clay abrades foreing substances on the surface off of the surface.

A HUGE factor as to whether claying would have any negative or positive affect would not only be the aggressiveness of the clay but,

How hard the person using it pressed down while rubbing it over the paint. This is a variable that would could be very different from person to person.

How much and what type of lubrication is used.
​

Just throwing the above out there....

 

[hernandez.art13]

Clay abrades foreing substances on the surface off of the surface.

A HUGE factor as to whether claying would have any negative or positive affect would not only be the aggressiveness of the clay but,

How hard the person using it pressed down while rubbing it over the paint. This is a variable that would could be very different from person to person.

How much and what type of lubrication is used.
​

Just throwing the above out there....

So if you get the most aggressive clay known to man and just very gently place it on your paint and go make yourself a sandwich the clay is not going to do anything to the paint. If it's just sitting there motionless.

However, if you get the least aggressive clay and start rubbing with a ton of pressure and little to no lube. Your chances of abrading the coating are increased.

I think that's what you mean Mike.

 

[mdgrwl]

If you use even a very fine polish like SF4000 or M205 - your going to strip the coating, plain and simple.

You cannot "correct" a coating.
You can "maintain" a coating by regular washes and using a topper like Reload...

 

[Tato]

Great thread.

It's not the first time I quote this here, but I'm willing to do this tomorrow to a PBL coating that still beads and sheets strong for some months but have dirty and waterspots embedded.

I mean, the coat obviously still there, looks good and is holding strong, but it also has accumulated dirt overtime.

Here what I see looking at PBL Cleansing polish:

"Use Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish as part of your maintenance program for your preferred paint, wheel, or glass coating products. Thanks to its non-abrasive formula, the polish won’t abrade the surface, thus preserving the layer of protection created by the coating. It will remove staining and embedded dirt that has accumulated over time, rejuvenating the shine and boosting the impressive water-sheeting characteristics of the coating"

Pinnacle Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish


Although I know it won't remove defects, my intention is to do just that, clean the coating.

Like I've said, coating hydrophobic effects still strong, so I don't want to remove and reapply it, just renew it.

If I'm able to tackle this with PBL polish tomorrow, I'll chime in.

Looking forward for opinions,

Kind Regards.

 

[FUNX650]

Great thread.

It's not the first time I quote this here, but I'm willing to do this tomorrow to a PBL coating that still beads and sheets strong for some months but have dirty and waterspots embedded.

I mean, the coat obviously still there, looks good and is holding strong, but it also has accumulated dirt overtime.

Here what I see looking at PBL Cleansing polish:

"Use Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish as part of your maintenance program for your preferred paint, wheel, or glass coating products. Thanks to its non-abrasive formula, the polish won’t abrade the surface, thus preserving the layer of protection created by the coating. It will remove staining and embedded dirt that has accumulated over time, rejuvenating the shine and boosting the impressive water-sheeting characteristics of the coating"

Pinnacle Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish


Although I know it won't remove defects, my intention is to do just that, clean the coating.

Like I've said, coating hydrophobic effects still strong, so I don't want to remove and reapply it, just renew it.

If I'm able to tackle this with PBL polish tomorrow, I'll chime in.

Looking forward for opinions,

Kind Regards.

Thanks for this posting!

To add:
What's your feelings regarding using a ferrous-contaminates-removing-product...like IronX...on this Coating?

Bob

 

[Eric@CherryOnTop]

Bob, I just used iron x on my optima which PBL paint coating. I had a lot of embedded iron particles in the paint that really scared me (white paint). It's theoretically safe on the coating since there is no abrading happening, and water sneered right off the paint when I rinsed the iron x off, same as it did when the coating was fresh.

I also agree that the PBL surface cleansing polish is safe to use on a coated car as long as you're using a pad that has no cutting ability, and not have the need to re coat. But I feel that if you're going to the trouble to clean the paint this way, why not just go ahead and re coat it?

I'll use the coating booster as a maintainence product.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[FUNX650]

Bob, I just used iron x on my optima which PBL paint coating. I had a lot of embedded iron particles in the paint that really scared me (white paint). It's theoretically safe on the coating since there is no abrading happening, and water sneered right off the paint when I rinsed the iron x off, same as it did when the coating was fresh.

I also agree that the PBL surface cleansing polish is safe to use on a coated car as long as you're using a pad that has no cutting ability, and not have the need to re coat. But I feel that if you're going to the trouble to clean the paint this way, why not just go ahead and re coat it?

I'll use the coating booster as a maintainence product.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sounds like a well thought out plan. rops:

Bob

 

[Tato]

Thanks for question @Bob, thanks for answer @Ekennett.

I thought that would be safe but haven't considered it, maybe I'll use it as well since I want to make a complete cleanup on my coating.

I'll also consider using a finishing pad, my intention is just cleaning without abrading it.

Thanks everyone,

Kind Regards.

 

[umana2482]

Interesting topic and allow me to add.
What about clay? Is it ok to clay a coated car? Or is there a need to?

I've coated my Tundra about 18 months ago. A couple of times while washing I would feel small contaminants on the paint. I clayed it using Speedy prep towel. This was quick and light claying, normally a 5 minutes process. My truck still beads great every time I wash it.



Sent from my HTC One using AG Online

 

[BrutalNoodle]

I also agree that the PBL surface cleansing polish is safe to use on a coated car as long as you're using a pad that has no cutting ability, and not have the need to re coat. But I feel that if you're going to the trouble to clean the paint this way, why not just go ahead and re coat it?

My only concern is would it be a waste of product or even necessary on a relatively fresh coated vehicle vs one that's toward the end of a coating life span.

 

[addysdaddy]

Optimum has stated their Coatings
-Add around 2 microns thickness
-Are around 100 times thicker than most other LSPs

"Doing the numbers":
-2 microns = 0.079 mils = 0.000079 inches
-2 microns/100 = 0.00079 mils = 0.00000079 inches

More perspectives:
-Waxes/Sealants.....~0.00079 mils
-Opti-Coatings........~0.079 mils
-CC Paint/3M Note...~1.5-2.0 mils
-PPF/"Clearbra".......~6.0-8.0 mils

With all of the findings that not even PPF (at ~400 times thicker than Opti-Coatings) is bullet proof...
It would appear that the majority of Coatings would be even less likely to provide a suitable barrier against:
"rock chipping".
Many Coating manufacturers have already said that is the case.


Bob

The numbers are crazy Bob - thanks for the illustration as it makes it pretty darn clear. Guess it's something we all have to live with.

 

[FUNX650]

The numbers are crazy Bob - thanks for the illustration as it makes it pretty darn clear. Guess it's something we all have to live with.

And whenever I see/read that in the detailing World:
"Thin is in"...
I find myself almost begin to shudder.

Or, at the very least: Starting to stammer...
When it comes to realizations regarding things like protection, layering, topping, abrading, solvents, etcetera, etcetera...


Bob