Interest in cars with the younger generation, what happened?

[Setec Astronomy]

Incredible.

Is there a way to agree with a post more than 100%?

You said a mouthful, there.

While I'm at it...do you think that some of the "anti-science", "anti-intellectualism" that seems to be prevalent, has to do with people not being exposed to science and engineering in their work? I have to say personally, that when I was in high school, a lot of the stuff in science classes seemed boring and abstract, until I got old enough to get an after-school job, and then suddenly there was a new context to science classes.

When you see things being made, and see machines doing work, it makes you see how math, science, education and knowledge come together, makes you appreciate design and analysis, etc. etc. Think about all the young people in China and Mexico and countless other countries, and what they are learning and seeing about the world by making things. And here...it reminds me of that Boiler Room movie.

That's not to say there isn't any manufacturing and science and engineering here in the US anymore...it's just not like it was, not around here, anyway. Well, time for me to go back to yelling at those darn kids to GET OFF MY LAWN!

 

[Klasse Act]

Well one little point in all that I would like to speak about is this, I'm no wrench and never will be. That said I eat, sleep and drink all things cars. I remember being about 5 yrs old and asking older kids in the neighborhood to write car related things on my Big Wheel. My first bike was a used Schwinn StingRay, emerald green and yellow and I waxed it every weekend and when I got it dirty going on trails my Dad got on me about it. I had Moped and put a turbo badge on it from some mid 80's Chrysler. Oh I should mention my early Hot Wheels collection, always something with cars......

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[PaulMys]

While I'm at it...do you think that some of the "anti-science", "anti-intellectualism" that seems to be prevalent, has to do with people not being exposed to science and engineering in their work? I have to say personally, that when I was in high school, a lot of the stuff in science classes seemed boring and abstract, until I got old enough to get an after-school job, and then suddenly there was a new context to science classes.

When you see things being made, and see machines doing work, it makes you see how math, science, education and knowledge come together, makes you appreciate design and analysis, etc. etc. Think about all the young people in China and Mexico and countless other countries, and what they are learning and seeing about the world by making things. And here...it reminds me of that Boiler Room movie.

That's not to say there isn't any manufacturing and science and engineering here in the US anymore...it's just not like it was, not around here, anyway. Well, time for me to go back to yelling at those darn kids to GET OFF MY LAWN!

Not only do I think this is true, but I believe this was a purposeful initiative set forth by very intelligent people hired by the highest of the high.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Well one little point in all that I would like to speak about is this, I'm no wrench and never will be.

That's ok...I think there is a sense of community and respect that's been lost in this de-industrialization...

 

[PaulMys]

Well one little point in all that I would like to speak about is this, I'm no wrench and never will be. That said I eat, sleep and drink all things cars. I remember being about 5 yrs old and asking older kids in the neighborhood to write car related things on my Big Wheel. My first bike was a used Schwinn StingRay, emerald green and yellow and I waxed it every weekend and when I got it dirty going on trails my Dad got on me about it. I had Moped and put a turbo badge on it from some mid 80's Chrysler. Oh I should mention my early Hot Wheels collection, always something with cars......

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No need to be a wrench to be a total car guy, Roger.

Your enthusiasm of cars is well known around here my brother.

 

[SYMAWD]

I really don't have a good answer to the question simply because I am that younger generation and I do have an interest in cars. As a kid I always had an interest in cars, I have always worked at a car dealership (still do, but only part time; it's not my main source of income, but I love cars so I still work there) and I think the fact that I am now on my 3rd car in 3 years says something.

First car. 2014 Civic Si

Second car. 2016 A3

Third and current car. 2018 S5

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Not only do I think this is true, but I believe this was a purposeful initiative set forth by very intelligent people hired by the highest of the high.

That throws a kind of conspiracy-theory feel on it. If instead you mean that this historical arc was driven by callous greed, and rich, powerful people manipulated things to become more rich and powerful with the complicity of those who might have stopped them, then I agree with you. At some point, the companies and the unions, the rich and the poor, the liberals and the conservatives...instead of seeing each other as in the same boat together, as having to coexist, as some sort of balance, as each needing the other...at some point, it became a zero-sum game, where there was no common interest or common ground.

Sheesh, I gotta save some of this for my book.

 

[PaulMys]

That throws a kind of conspiracy-theory feel on it. If instead you mean that this historical arc was driven by callous greed, and rich, powerful people manipulated things to become more rich and powerful with the complicity of those who might have stopped them, then I agree with you. At some point, the companies and the unions, the rich and the poor, the liberals and the conservatives...instead of seeing each other as in the same boat together, as having to coexist, as some sort of balance, as each needing the other...at some point, it became a zero-sum game, where there was no common interest or common ground.

Sheesh, I gotta save some of this for my book.

I'll buy every copy.

The telling point for me was the greed-induced near collapse of the economy back in 2008 by billion dollar "companies" wanting seemingly every last dollar on Earth.

Who bailed them? Us (little guys).

Who was held accountable? Not any one of them. Not one day of prison that other individual white collar embezzlers incur.

Ahh, sorry. I'm gonna go read your book.............

 

[Klasse Act]

Life long favorite...one that was always there all along and then one day it bit me and it's fangs are sooooooo deep I can't get away! Just 2 examples of passion for me, short and to the point (I could do a huge post on the mid-year but I'll resist and the 930 turbo....PLEASE!)

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[Setec Astronomy]

I'll buy every copy.

The telling point for me was the greed-induced near collapse of the economy back in 2008 by billion dollar "companies" wanting seemingly every last dollar on Earth.

Who bailed them? Us (little guys).

Who was held accountable? Not any one of them. Not one day of prison that other individual white collar embezzlers incur.

Ahh, sorry. I'm gonna go read your book.............

Ah ha ha...the best in that whole thing was the CEO of Merrill Lynch, who bankrupted the company forcing them to sell to BoA, and got fired for doing so...and collected a huge golden parachute on the way out the door of over $100 million...and, as you note, us little guys were paying bailout money, so some congressional committee had the CFO of Merrill Lynch testifying...to explain why a CEO who got fired for being a bad CEO still got paid 3 years severance or whatever it was...and the answer was (for his $40 million a year salary) "his employment contract didn't have any performance requirements..." WTH!?!?! I bet if I was the guy mopping the floors at Merrill Lynch, my "employment contract" would specify I would get kicked out on my butt with no severance if it turned out I wasn't a good floor mopper.

Anyway, we'd better stop before Klasse scratches his head about how we got on this subject...

 

[KirkH]

While I'm at it...do you think that some of the "anti-science", "anti-intellectualism" that seems to be prevalent, has to do with people not being exposed to science and engineering in their work? I have to say personally, that when I was in high school, a lot of the stuff in science classes seemed boring and abstract, until I got old enough to get an after-school job, and then suddenly there was a new context to science classes.
!

Nope. That is all political. The ruling class wants WORKERS not skilled, educated citizens. This is why you see the attacks on science, teachers, universities. This is why the new tax plan makes graduate school scholarships TAXABLE income. This is why the new tax plan makes university endowments taxable.

I could go on for pages....

 

[KirkH]

I'll buy every copy.

The telling point for me was the greed-induced near collapse of the economy back in 2008 by billion dollar "companies" wanting seemingly every last dollar on Earth.

Who bailed them? Us (little guys).

Who was held accountable? Not any one of them. Not one day of prison that other individual white collar embezzlers incur.

Ahh, sorry. I'm gonna go read your book.............

I saw a figure that said we could've paid off every US citizens mortgage with the bank bailout money. Instead they were convinced to give it to the banks, because the banks said they'd loan it out to people. They didn't . They bought stuff and gave bonuses with it.

And no one held them accountable.

 

[KirkH]

You don't want to hear my rust-belt rant. Well, ok.

Certainly part of it, as mentioned, is the trend that started a long time ago, which is part of a bigger trend maybe from couples having kids later in life, is that new drivers are getting newer cars and not hand-me-downs or $200 fix-em-ups.

But I think another big part of it is the de-industrialization of the country that we have seen in the last 40 years. As there is less manufacturing, less vocational education, there is less exposure to making things and fixing things, less parents, siblings, relatives, friends who work with their hands, and therefore less knowledge, less interest, less ability to learn (first hand) about mechanical things, fixing things, etc.

The internet in a lot of ways has reversed the trend, making it easy to find out things if you are interested, but in some ways it was too little, too late, we kind of lost a generation or two in terms of having any interest to pass down or around to other people. When lawyers make "work product" and there is such a thing as a "financial industry"...products that are made of paper and industries that produce nothing but pushing other people's money around and charging fees for it, and when even high value items like appliances, and to some extent airbag laden cars that get totaled from minor accidents have become essentially "disposable"...it shouldn't be a surprise that there is little interest in machines like cars.

But, as Dennis Miller used to say, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

What about car manufacturers making cars so they must be serviced by the dealership? I have a 2016 Camaro. It came out in 2015. Chevy did not release the service manual until LAST MONTH!!!! Making it very difficult to fix things ourselves. And all the computer controls!

 

[Eldorado2k]

What about car manufacturers making cars so they must be serviced by the dealership? I have a 2016 Camaro. It came out in 2015. Chevy did not release the service manual until LAST MONTH!!!! Making it very difficult to fix things ourselves. And all the computer controls!

Did someone say service manual? I just received this in the mail yesterday...

I ordered it for a fellow Cadillac brother who I met through work. Says he's always wanted/needed that book. I solved his problem and ordered it online before he was finished with his story. Lol.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

What about car manufacturers making cars so they must be serviced by the dealership? I have a 2016 Camaro. It came out in 2015. Chevy did not release the service manual until LAST MONTH!!!! Making it very difficult to fix things ourselves. And all the computer controls!

That's ridiculous!! My last GM I never bought the manual because I wasn't sure I was going to keep the car that long, and the one before cost $250! But at least I was able to get it right away. I have never bought into the "conspiracy" that the car companies on purpose try to keep you from servicing your car yourself, but you're starting to change my mind. Certainly in today's internet world, the dealers can't make any money on the sale of the car, so they try to make all their money on the service portion.

 

[WillSports3]

Look at mercedes benz. Their cars require a specific computer program to reset their lights and what not inside. Not sure bout the US but in Canada, they're not releasing the program to non dealership mechanics. You can change the oil and do whatever you need to but you have to have the dealership reset your warning lights.

 

[Klasse Act]

Follow the money, LOL!

I'm trying to figure out how the little guys bailing out the banks factors in to why the younger generation isn't into cars like we all were when their age but it's cool

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[BillE]

GREAT conversation gentlemen!

Bill

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Look at mercedes benz. Their cars require a specific computer program to reset their lights and what not inside. Not sure bout the US but in Canada, they're not releasing the program to non dealership mechanics. You can change the oil and do whatever you need to but you have to have the dealership reset your warning lights.

Yeah, well, yeah. I guess I see this stuff as not trying to keep you from fixing your own car, I see it as a liability concern that the company has if they let someone who isn't trained shut off the warning light. What if it was easy to shut off an airbag warning light, and you do it, then your wife borrows your car and gets in an accident and is killed and the airbags don't go off. So you sue the company...you can see where that is going.

Like these appliances that the service guy hooks up a laptop to...did the appliance company do that to keep you from servicing your own appliance because you can't get the software? I'd like to think that the appliance company did it so that their service guys could do their job better, faster, and require less experience/training, not to prevent the owner from doing it.

Here's another one...I remember when GM changed the screws that held the headlights in (for you younger members, this was back when we had a thing called "sealed beams" and you had to change the whole headlight, not just a bulb) to Torx. Back then a Torx driver was not something everybody had, and my friends complained it was to force you to go to the dealer for simple repairs. Previously it had been a Phillips (no relation to Mike, ha ha) screw that your screwdriver never seemed to fit into properly...later I learned that those "Phillips" screws were actually PosiDrive, which required a special screwdriver, you couldn't go to Sears and get one, you needed to buy it off the SnapOn truck.

Why did they use a PosiDrive, and then a Torx screw for this? It was to prevent "camout" of the power driver on the production line, if when they were screwing the headlights in and the driver "cammed out" of the fastener the tool might damage the vehicle finish...just like members who have had a backing plate failure when they are polishing. Although I will admit I found out later, in a car I thought had no Torx fasteners, that the seatbelts were held in with Torx bolts...these were large bolts that could have been a hex-head...that was almost certainly to discourage owners from messing with a safety critical item.

 

[SWETM]

If you don't do the service at the authorized Kia dealership you loose the warrenty on the car. Sure it's a 7 years warrenty but only if you don't do the service your self or at an other mechanic.

Here the intrest for cars is good at the younger. Most is the cars 2000 and older that you can still work on self. It's most Volvo BMW Saab they have. The showcars is so tuned that most of them is on the trailer and never driven. Not much is done by the owner but to different shops. And the most has sponsorships to get it done. Many borrows their parents cars or get them from them. That's the newer cars from 2000 to date. Mostly because the price of cars and the insurance is so high.

The scene of classic cars exploded about 10 years ago. We import those cars from the US. And with a big demand the price goes up and it has that big time.