Is it possible to keep an outside kept car swirl free?

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02SOMSS

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Hey guys, seeking some advice about my brothers car. About 3 months ago I did a 2 stage correction on this car and finished it with Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant. Since then, he has been 2 bucket washing it and blow drying the water off, then keeping it protected with the Pinnacle spray wax and various different QD's. I've watched him wash the car and he uses very good technique and his spray wax/QD towels are from here so they're excellent quality.

However, we both have recently noticed some marring and swirling on some areas of the paint. Its at the point where it could use another light correction. Is this something normal that happens overtime if a car sits outside in the elements? Or does this sound more like a technique related issue? My inside kept Camaro has been corrected for over a year and I haven't had to use my DA on it since. I put less than 1k miles on it a year but I'm always using spray waxes and detail sprays on it to keep it shiny and it never seems to scratch. So, I'm at a lost with my brothers car. Thanks for any input. :props:

Here's a couple of pictures of his car. It's a '98 LS400, this has kind of been a project for both of us, we have been going through the car little by little to get it as correct and clean as possible.

 
It's simple, your car drives 1,000 miles per year, of course you can wipe it down all the time with quik detailer because there's never any real dirt on it vs. his ride which has a considerable amount of dirt each time he goes to wipe it down.

Even if the vehicle appears mostly just dusty on normal occasions, odds are they'll be small debris here and there laying on the paint, and that could easily result in micro scratches over time.


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Whenever you touch a car there potential to induce marring, especially straight black. The 2bm is a good best practice to perform a quality wash but it's certainly not 100% that you won't induce marring. Comparing a garage queen to a daily driver isn't a fair comparison and chasing swirls on a straight black 19 yo dd will indeed land you in the looney bin!
 
If you are not already doing so, use the your spray wax as a drying aid, applying it to a semi wet car, then dry lightly. Keep all wash and drying mitts/towels clean.

ScottH
 
Appreciate the advice guys, sounds like we're kind of chasing an uphill battle with the car being a driver and sitting outside. I guess I need to explain to him that if he wants it "perfect" it needs to be kept inside and driven very sparingly.
 
Dump the "quik detailer" and replace it with a good waterless wash. Meguiars D115 @6:1 and Wolfgang Uber Rinseless Wash Concentrate @3oz. per gallon are solid choices.

1 thing he could do, if it's available/reasonable for him is to blow his vehicle down with either a strong leaf blower or a Master Blaster Sidekick prior to wiping down his car... It may sound weird, but he'll be thanking himself if by doing that he blows off any large debris such as any twigs, leafs, loose grit off his paint before getting started.

Something I've always thought about but never fully tested:
I've always wondered if a daily driver would be much better off with more frequent wipedowns aka "quik detailing" aka "waterless washing"... And by more frequent I mean like at least every other day if not everyday. Sure it may sound borderline nutts, but everyone knows how easy and fast a waterless wash can be done on a vehicle that's been washed the day before. It can be done Really fast.

And if it's so easy and fast + there's minimal dust/dirt to wipe off, wouldn't that be much safer on your paint vs. trying to wipedown 3-4 days worth of dust/dirt and having the same wipedown take a lot longer? I think we psych ourselves out thinking if we touch the paint that often we're bound to instill swirls, but I'm not so sure that'd be the case.


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The Lexus most likely has softer paint.

And the color black doesn't help hide anything.
 
Eldorado2k said:
Dump the "quik detailer" and replace it with a good waterless wash. Meguiars D115 @6:1 and Wolfgang Uber Rinseless Wash Concentrate @3oz. per gallon are solid choices.

1 thing he could do, if it's available/reasonable for him is to blow his vehicle down with either a strong leaf blower or a Master Blaster Sidekick prior to wiping down his car... It may sound weird, but he'll be thanking himself if by doing that he blows off any large debris such as any twigs, leafs, loose grit off his paint before getting started.

Something I've always thought about but never fully tested:
I've always wondered if a daily driver would be much better off with more frequent wipedowns aka "quik detailing" aka "waterless washing"... And by more frequent I mean like at least every other day if not everyday. Sure it may sound borderline nutts, but everyone knows how easy and fast a waterless wash can be done on a vehicle that's been washed the day before. It can be done Really fast.

And if it's so easy and fast + there's minimal dust/dirt to wipe off, wouldn't that be much safer on your paint vs. trying to wipedown 3-4 days worth of dust/dirt and having the same wipedown take a lot longer? I think we psych ourselves out thinking if we touch the paint that often we're bound to instill swirls, but I'm not so sure that'd be the case.


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I'll answer this one, unfortunately.

When I first got my (then) new 2012 Ram, I was oblivious to fine detailing.

I did know not to use an old T-shirt & Dawn soap, but a car soap and mitt. I did so the day I brought it home, then dried & waxed it. Makes me cringe now, I know.

But, I would religiously go over the truck w/ Megs QD every day after work. (Proud Poppa, Lol)

Well, that technique is what eventually brought me here. The swirls I were instilling in the paint were, at first, not noticeable on my light gray metallic. But after a year or so I was astonished at what I had done to the paint. Mind you, it looked great to the untrained eye, but after learning about proper paint care here on AGO, I could have kicked myself.
 
JustJesus said:
What parts of the car are showing the marring/swirling?

Car looks good.
Click to expand...

Thanks man!

Mostly we notice it on the rear quarter panels and front fenders. The hood, doors and roof are actually still pretty swirl free.



Eldorado2k said:
Dump the "quik detailer" and replace it with a good waterless wash. Meguiars D115 @6:1 and Wolfgang Uber Rinseless Wash Concentrate @3oz. per gallon are solid choices.

1 thing he could do, if it's available/reasonable for him is to blow his vehicle down with either a strong leaf blower or a Master Blaster Sidekick prior to wiping down his car... It may sound weird, but he'll be thanking himself if by doing that he blows off any large debris such as any twigs, leafs, loose grit off his paint before getting started.

Something I've always thought about but never fully tested:
I've always wondered if a daily driver would be much better off with more frequent wipedowns aka "quik detailing" aka "waterless washing"... And by more frequent I mean like at least every other day if not everyday. Sure it may sound borderline nutts, but everyone knows how easy and fast a waterless wash can be done on a vehicle that's been washed the day before. It can be done Really fast.

And if it's so easy and fast + there's minimal dust/dirt to wipe off, wouldn't that be much safer on your paint vs. trying to wipedown 3-4 days worth of dust/dirt and having the same wipedown take a lot longer? I think we psych ourselves out thinking if we touch the paint that often we're bound to instill swirls, but I'm not so sure that'd be the case.


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Click to expand...

Thanks for the product recommendation. I'll definitely tell him to try those out for a change. Yeah, I taught him how to properly air dry his car a while ago, we just use a powerful electric leaf blower. Thats a good question you pose too, interested to hear what others think of that.
 
Eldorado2k said:
Dump the "quik detailer" and replace it with a good waterless wash. Meguiars D115 @6:1 and Wolfgang Uber Rinseless Wash Concentrate @3oz. per gallon are solid choices.

1 thing he could do, if it's available/reasonable for him is to blow his vehicle down with either a strong leaf blower or a Master Blaster Sidekick prior to wiping down his car... It may sound weird, but he'll be thanking himself if by doing that he blows off any large debris such as any twigs, leafs, loose grit off his paint before getting started.

Something I've always thought about but never fully tested:
I've always wondered if a daily driver would be much better off with more frequent wipedowns aka "quik detailing" aka "waterless washing"... And by more frequent I mean like at least every other day if not everyday. Sure it may sound borderline nutts, but everyone knows how easy and fast a waterless wash can be done on a vehicle that's been washed the day before. It can be done Really fast.

And if it's so easy and fast + there's minimal dust/dirt to wipe off, wouldn't that be much safer on your paint vs. trying to wipedown 3-4 days worth of dust/dirt and having the same wipedown take a lot longer? I think we psych ourselves out thinking if we touch the paint that often we're bound to instill swirls, but I'm not so sure that'd be the case.


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Click to expand...

I agree!

I've been using Meguiar's D115 as a quick detailer on my black Chevy truck and two black Harley's for about 6 months now and the results are better than any dedicated quick detailer I have previously used.

I also agree that frequent cleaning is beneficial. The blower idea is something I've also done although not always.

One other thing I always do that makes some around here cringe but I swear by it, is that I lightly clean with my California Duster to remove the loose dust/dirt before any quick detailer.


02SOMSS said:
Thanks man!

Mostly we notice it on the rear quarter panels and front fenders. The hood, doors and roof are actually still pretty swirl free.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like those panels have possibly been repainted and do not exhibit the same durability as the original finish.
 
It's also plausible that those panels are getting the most road film and contaminates being by the wheels you know brake dust and whatever else from the road sure they may not be visible to the eye but they are getting ground around some what when it's getting cleaned.


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IMO there's really no difference in whether it's kept inside or outside. I stand by the fact that it's technique and products used, especially towels. In my experience most marks are put on during the drying stage. One good practice I use is that I wash and dry and or wipe in different directions perpendicular from one another thus if I do notice any marring or scratches I know which phase they were applied in. I do 90% rinseless washing of my two vehicles and there are occasions like this week where our van is parked outside. I usually do a typical hose wash during the summer when it's enjoyable to play in water :)

After a wash with either method, but not always when I rinseless, I use a leaf blower to dry. When I do not, I use a "blotting" method with my drying towels. Anytime I touch the car, I insure my towels are damp not dry. Even when I go to apply my ECH20/Reload detail product, I use a light dampened towel to wipe and only after I spray and wipe do I use a dedicated buff towel to insure it's streak free.

My go-to waterless wash towels are Eagle Edgeless 480gsm 16x16 towels. I use the same one dampened to dry. I have larger Griot's PFM towels for blotting. My buff towels that 180gsm Edgeless lint free ones. They always get washed separately to keep them lint and contaminant free.

Sounds like a lot of effort but it's not really. I can wash my Sedan in 1hr exactly from dirt to show-car ready using a rinseless method, 1.5gals water, the above steps and about 8 total rags..
 
Is the paint original or respray? The black paint can be soft, And you can have the best technique in the world and you will still leave some towel marring on the paint.

My father in law had this 1978 Corvette Pace Car, Beautiful car great restoration quality re-paint. However the paint was so frickin soft, When I would wipe it with no matter what towel, polish, pressure I would leave towel marring. I knew if I polished it my father-in-law would ruin it in 1 wash. I didnt even bother, I went around it with some polish real fast to make it pop and left it as is.
 
Mantilgh said:
The Lexus most likely has softer paint.

And the color black doesn't help hide anything.
Click to expand...

I can't see the pictures at the moment, but I bet this has a lot to do with it. If Lexus paint is anything like what is used by their parent company, Toyota, it will be very soft. I have been able to mar my wife's Toyota with my finger. Some times I feel as if the wind is putting swirls into the paint as she drives. I've come to the realization as a DD with soft paint it will never be show car perfect. My goal now is to simply keep it looking good.
 
MattPersman said:
It's also plausible that those panels are getting the most road film and contaminates being by the wheels you know brake dust and whatever else from the road ..
Click to expand...

and that is why I asked where is the marring!

But then, I'd expect some on the doors as well.
 
realistically 80%-85% swirl free for a DD is fair and as long as you watch your technique and the products you use there shouldn't be a reason to have to polish more than at least once a year...
 
VISITOR said:
realistically 80%-85% swirl free for a DD is fair and as long as you watch your technique and the products you use there shouldn't be a reason to have to polish more than at least once a year...
Click to expand...

^this^, but to expect to keep a black car that sits outside swirl free is unrealistic.
 
IMO no technique, no product whether it be the best wonder product or the worst, name brand or non name brand, wax, sealant or coating; your car will eventually get minor swirls/scratches. It's just the nature of the game. Dust, pollen, wind, bee-poop, bird poop etc will cause scratches or possible marks (bird-poop). Having your car garaged will prolong the eventual scratches.

My car is a Black colored car....just looking at it will induce minor swirls. The good thing is that 99% of the people will see your ride and still think's its beautiful and probably the best maintained ride that they have seen. It's the 1% YOU me and practically everyone here on AGO's forum will see the minor defects.

A simple light polish/jeweling polish or wax remover (some have even smaller amounts of abrasives than a polish) is probably all you need and your normal protection afterwards. However, realize in about 3 or 6 months, you will probably have to do the same procedure again. But that's OK MOST of us on this forum are OCD when it comes to making rides look great.

It's fun bringing back the shine in your ride....AGAIN!

Again, this is just my opinion.
 
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