Is This Normal Foam Pad Wear? Advice Please!

[Marc08EX]

I'm currently having some issues with my foam pads after cleaning them with a foam pad reconditioning brush... Here are some pictures of a W8006 Meguiar's Polishing Pad that I have a problem with...

Now to compare, here are some pictures of a brand new W8006 Meguiar's Polishing pad...

My Lake Country pads are also doing the same thing... Here are some worn out LC orange pads...

My questions is whether this is normal or not... Am I destroying my pads with a foam reconditioning brush? Should I toss my pads away and buy new ones? I saw Mike Philip's http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/product-reviews/38005-grit-guard-pad-washer-cart.html thread and it seems that the pads he was using looked perfectly brand new after washing it with the GG universal pad washer.

Any input and advice would be appreciated! Thanks for your help!

 

[polishdoc]

Hi Marc08EX

I used to have the same problems and after having gone through a lot of buffing pads I finally put down the problem to the reconditioning brush !

IMHO I found it to be too harsh for cleaning foam pads , I only use it on wool pads now .
After having bought the Universal Pad Washer I never looked back , my foam pads come out clean every time plus my pads haven't worn out at all .

Which in my books they look brand new !

Hope this advice helps

Mario

 

[Yenkofan]

:iagree:

I never had this problem before I bought the reconditioning brush. After I got it and used it a little, my pads look just like the photos. I won't use it anymore (I don't have wool..) and it was a complete waste of money as far as I'm concerned.

 

[tuscarora dave]

I use a $3 denture brush from WalMart to clean my pads with. It works very good and my pads stay looking new. I had tried the universal pad washer bucket at Poorboy's detailing weekend and while it works OK the only way I would spend $100 + on a gadget like that is if I had a wife nagging me about throwing my pads in the washing machine.

 

[A4 1.8tqm]

I use a $3 denture brush from WalMart to clean my pads with. It works very good and my pads stay looking new. I had tried the universal pad washer bucket at Poorboy's detailing weekend and while it works OK the only way I would spend $100 + on a gadget like that is if I had a wife nagging me about throwing my pads in the washing machine.

Sounds about right to me! A give my pads a good rinse and try to rub out all the polish with my thumbs, aided by Pinnacle pad cleaner. Then it's into the washing machine with DP Pad Cleaner. No probs.

Marc08EX- Out of curiosity, have you ever used Dawn "Power Dissolver" to soak/clean your pads??

 

[Yenkofan]

DP Polishing Pad Rejuvenator was created to provide detailers with a fast and effective way to clean pads without soapy residue or foamy degreasers.

Best stuff to clean pads with, hands down! I used to use Dawn to try and remove wax and polishes from pads and my Mother's Power Ball & Cone and it would take forever, even after letting them soak for a few hours in Dawn & hot water. DP Polishing Pad Rejuvenator even took off caked on polish off of my Power Cone that had been sitting for about 6 months. Great stuff! I will NEVER be without it again! :dblthumb2:

 

[master detailer]

dont use the brush just use 1oz on degreser in 5gl of h2o and wash pad buy hand its fast and easy clean pads work better and last alot longer. ps on a da if your pad has to much comp on the pad it will not spin wright and take a real long time to do the job

 

[Marc08EX]

Thanks for the responses guys!!!

Hi Marc08EX

I used to have the same problems and after having gone through a lot of buffing pads I finally put down the problem to the reconditioning brush !

IMHO I found it to be too harsh for cleaning foam pads , I only use it on wool pads now .
After having bought the Universal Pad Washer I never looked back , my foam pads come out clean every time plus my pads haven't worn out at all .

Which in my books they look brand new !

Hope this advice helps

Mario

Thanks for the advice Mario. I'm thinking that the culprit is the foam reconditioning brush as well. I don't know why they call it reconditioning... It should be named foam deteriorating brush... I guess I have to invest in a GG universal pad washer.

How many pads do you typically use to polish a car for a heavy polish like M105 or SIP?

:iagree:

I never had this problem before I bought the reconditioning brush. After I got it and used it a little, my pads look just like the photos. I won't use it anymore (I don't have wool..) and it was a complete waste of money as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah I won't be using it anymore given your input. I just try to use the least amount of pads as possible when buffing out a car and using the foam reconditioning brush to clean the pads on the fly really helps clear out the dried product in the pad (mainly with M105). I guess I just have to use more pads and clean them all out after I'm done.

How many pads do you typically use to polish a car for a heavy polish like M105 or SIP?

I use a $3 denture brush from WalMart to clean my pads with. It works very good and my pads stay looking new. I had tried the universal pad washer bucket at Poorboy's detailing weekend and while it works OK the only way I would spend $100 + on a gadget like that is if I had a wife nagging me about throwing my pads in the washing machine.

Can you please post a picture of the said denture brush? I would love to see it! Do you use this brush to clean the pads on the fly or when you're done buffing out the entire car?

Sounds about right to me! A give my pads a good rinse and try to rub out all the polish with my thumbs, aided by Pinnacle pad cleaner. Then it's into the washing machine with DP Pad Cleaner. No probs.

Marc08EX- Out of curiosity, have you ever used Dawn "Power Dissolver" to soak/clean your pads??

Hi A4, I clean my pads with APC or some Dawn and use my fingers/thumbs to agitate the solution after I'm done buffing the entire car. I only use the foam reconditioning brush when I'm cleaning the pads on the fly so that I can use them longer. I guess this effectively shortens their lifespan...

DP Polishing Pad Rejuvenator was created to provide detailers with a fast and effective way to clean pads without soapy residue or foamy degreasers.

Best stuff to clean pads with, hands down! I used to use Dawn to try and remove wax and polishes from pads and my Mother's Power Ball & Cone and it would take forever, even after letting them soak for a few hours in Dawn & hot water. DP Polishing Pad Rejuvenator even took off caked on polish off of my Power Cone that had been sitting for about 6 months. Great stuff! I will NEVER be without it again! :dblthumb2:

I'll try ordering that on my next order. Thanks yenkofan!

dont use the brush just use 1oz on degreser in 5gl of h2o and wash pad buy hand its fast and easy clean pads work better and last alot longer. ps on a da if your pad has to much comp on the pad it will not spin wright and take a real long time to do the job

I would tend to do this type of cleaning process when I'm done buffing out the entire car. If I do this after each section then I won't be able to use the pad anymore. How many pads do you use when buffing the car with a product like M105 or SIP?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

What I see is normal wear-n-tear

Foam buffing pads don't stay new forever. The more aggressively you clean them with ANY nylon brush the more the bristles will tear off little tiny pieces of already worn from buffing.

Pads wear out, especially cutting pads when using aggressive products.

A pad washer, or washing by hand is less detrimental to the foam. Using a nylon brush is fast, easy and an inexpensive way to remove,

• Spent product
• Removed paint

Off the face of your buffing pads but it comes at a cost. See this article,

Why it's important to clean your pads often...


Now check these shots I took on the 4th of July from page 4 of this thread,

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/off-topic/37831-bumblebee-testing-out-new-dewalt-dwp849x-4.html

As I've been working around the car I've been cleaning my pads in a Grit Guard Pad Washer using the new Grit Guard Universal Detailing Cart.


Grit Guard Pad Washer Cart


Love this cart!


You no longer have to bend over to clean you buffing pads!
By elevating the Grit Guard Pad Washer off the ground in a sturdy cart you no longer have to bend over to clean you buffing pads. The cart comes with 2 lockable wheels and if you lock them the cart stays in place as you run your polisher to clean the pads.

And of course the Grit Guard Pad Washer works great!

Look at all the spent product and removed paint that has built-up on the face of the pad, there's enough that it's caking-up

No camera flash shots...

Now look how clean the pad is but not worn...

With camera flash on... (same pad before and after shots)

Now if you look real close, you can see there is some wear taking place to the pad, it's normal for the kind of use the pad is receiving. After I switched from the DeWALT to only using my Flex PE14, I used the same foam cutting pad for the rest of the compounding step. It's still in the garage. As I type this I have not cleaned it since using it last nor even looked at it closely because after compounding something the size of the 1947 Chevy Sedan Delivery you don't much care about little things, you move on to the next step if you want to get the job done in some kind of reasonable time frame.

Sometime today I will go out and take some pictures of the pad to show the amount of wear after buffing out this car.

The big pictures is that the working face of your foam pad is going to wear down and usually become tatty looking. This is especially true for any stiffer, foam cutting pad. It also doesn't matter that much as far as the finish on the paint goes because you're going to re-polish the paint using less aggressive pads and products.

The purpose of the major correction step when you're using an aggressive foam cutting pad and an aggressive compound or polish is to cut the paint that is get in there, abrade the surface and level it. It's not the pretty step, or even the fun step, it's the work step, it's usually the longest step and it's the most important step.

If the deepest defects are not removed during the major correction step, they will be there when you wipe your LSP off... only they'll be clear and shiny.

 

[Marc08EX]

Thanks for the in-depth response and advice Mike!!! I really appreciate it.

I try to clean my pads on the fly with a pad reconditioning brush because of your advice from the http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...55-why-s-important-clean-your-pads-often.html thread. When I use a MF towels to clean the pads on the fly, it's not that effective and there are still dried out products left in the face of the pad. I found out that the foam reconditioning brush worked the best but at the expense of pad life.

What's your preferred method to clean your pads on the fly? The GG universal pad washer doesn't fully dry the pad even when used with a rotary correct? Do you use this while polishing the car or just to clean all your pads at the end?

That's the thread I was talking about in my first post. Your pads look relatively new and flat when cleaned with the GG universal pad washer. I didn't even see the wear you mentioned because it was very miniscule. I want my pads to wear out that slow. The W8006 pads turned like that after approximately 2 cars only. It's pretty sad.

I just want to lengthen the life of my polishing pads because they're pretty expensive.

I'm looking forward in seeing some more pictures later! Thanks again!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for the in-depth response and advice Mike!!! I really appreciate it.

I try to clean my pads on the fly with a pad reconditioning brush because of your advice from the http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...55-why-s-important-clean-your-pads-often.html thread. When I use a MF towels to clean the pads on the fly, it's not that effective and there are still dried out products left in the face of the pad. I found out that the foam reconditioning brush worked the best but at the expense of pad life.

Actually, I don't recommend microfiber towels to clean pads on the fly but 100% cotton terry cloth and specifically a terry cloth towel with a large nap or loop. The loop of fiber acts to slice into the built-up gunk on any pad, break it up so you can get it off.

Actually, a combination of using a terry cloth towel and a nylon brush works best but "yes" you are going to see some wear to your foam pads, especially cutting foam pads.

What's your preferred method to clean your pads on the fly? The GG universal pad washer doesn't fully dry the pad even when used with a rotary correct? Do you use this while polishing the car or just to clean all your pads at the end?

Both but I keep clean dry terry cloth towels on hand to absorb excess liquid out of the foam pads. Most pad cleaning needs to be done for the compounding and any aggressive polishing steps.

As you work your way up to the jewelling step, or last machine finishing step you still want to clean you pad often, in fact after each section buffed but you're not going to see the kind of gunk cake-up on the face of your pad.

That's the thread I was talking about in my first post. Your pads look relatively new and flat when cleaned with the GG universal pad washer. I didn't even see the wear you mentioned because it was very minuscule. I want my pads to wear out that slow. The W8006 pads turned like that after approximately 2 cars only. It's pretty sad.

I just want to lengthen the life of my polishing pads because they're pretty expensive.

I'm looking forward in seeing some more pictures later! Thanks again!

I haven't looked at the pad I used on the yellow sedan delivery yet, Bob Eichelberg from Flex Power Tools was just here and we were out in the studio looking at and examining all the rotary buffers we carry...

I'll go find the pad and see how it looks.

You're goal is honorable, (get the most use out of your pads), but the truth is foam pads will wear down, especially foam cutting pads, followed by foam polishing pads and mostly when doing heavy correction work.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I'll try to show how to clean your pad on the fly when using a rotary buffer at our detailing classes this weekend, either for a still camera or for video.

 

[Marc08EX]

Thanks so much for your help and advice Mike!!! I really like how detailed your responses are. I think it really helps us understand what to do better. I'll be buying a pack of terry cloth towels specifically to clean pads on the fly now.

If you are using the terry cloth towels or the GG universal pad washer to clean pads on the fly then what is the foam reconditioning brush used for? Especially if it just deteriorates the foam quality?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here's the Constant Pressure 6.5" Orange Foam Cutting pad after compounding 3/4's of the below 1949 Chevrolet Sedan Delivery. I used a CP/CCS pad for about one quarter of the compounding process while I was comparing rotary buffers.

This is how it looks after being used and then drying for a day or so...


Camera flash on to light up the caked-up residue

Without flash...

After thorough cleaning in the pad washer and also using some of the Grit Guard pad cleaning solution. Note I'm confident it would have cleaned up better had I cleaned it immediately after using it instead of waiting for a day and a half but you get the idea and you can now see the wear.

No flash...

That's normal wear-n-tear for compounding 3/4's of this vehicle and each section I compounded I compounded twice. One section pass to chop off all the topical paint and a second to do a really good job of compounding the paint because I like to be thorough.


This streetrod has a lot of real-estate... it ain't no compact car that's for sure...

Hope that helps and gives you some kind of reference to work from...

 

[Marc08EX]

Thanks for sharing the pictures Mike.

I can definitely see the wear and tear of the pad but it's very minimal. I think you can use your pad 5+ more times before it gets to the same condition as my pads. My pads were only used for 2-3 cars.

One question Mike, if you are using the terry cloth towels or the GG universal pad washer to clean pads on the fly then what is the foam reconditioning brush used for especially if it just deteriorates the foam quality?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

One question Mike, if you are using the terry cloth towels or the GG universal pad washer to clean pads on the fly then what is the foam reconditioning brush used for especially if it just deteriorates the foam quality?

To clean foam pads.

I use all three of the above for foam and a steel spur instead of a nylon brush for wool pads.

I always use a nylon brush to clean pads they are great for ensuring that no particulates are on the pad. The wear you get goes with the territory.


What tool are you using? (Sorry if I missed it anywhere you mentioned it)

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Duh... looked at your Signature Line... Club Flex...


I deduce, that if you're holding any nylon brush against the face of a foam pad when using a Flex 3401 and then running the tool and drawing the bristols of the nylon brush over the face of the pad you're going to see more wear than you would with a rotary buffer because of the forced oscillating action.

I personally don't use nylon brushes to clean foam pads with the Flex 3401 unless I do so with the machine turned off and I'm just brushing the face of the pad while it's attached to the backing plate.

The key culprit here is also the feature you undoubtedly love and that's the forced oscillating action.

This is my best Sherlock Holmes....

 

[Marc08EX]

Duh... looked at your Signature Line... Club Flex...


I deduce, that if you're holding any nylon brush against the face of a foam pad when using a Flex 3401 and then running the tool and drawing the bristols of the nylon brush over the face of the pad you're going to see more wear than you would with a rotary buffer because of the forced oscillating action.

I personally don't use nylon brushes to clean foam pads with the Flex 3401 unless I do so with the machine turned off and I'm just brushing the face of the pad while it's attached to the backing plate.

The key culprit here is also the feature you undoubtedly love and that's the forced oscillating action.

This is my best Sherlock Holmes....

Thanks Mike!!! I'll try to clean off the foam pad when the tool is off. It doesn't seem to be doing that great of a job in cleaning the pad compared to when the tool is on. But then again I didn't know that the oscillating action is what's killing the pad.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

But then again I didn't know that the oscillating action is what's killing the pad.

Understandable.

If you ever use a nylon brush to clean a foam pad on a rotary buffer you could then compare the cleaning action and results. Without a rotary buffer to compare your experience it's understandable that you didn't know the oscillating action was the culprit.

The stated orbit of the Flex 3401 is 8 millimeters or about 5/16" of an inch. But all anyone has to do is place a foam pad on the backing plate of a Flex 3401 and then hold the body of the tool in one hand and with your other hand, grab the face of the pad and rotate it and look at the orbit size and you'll see the orbit size of the face of the pad is a lot larger than 5/16" of an inch.

I would place it to be around 3/4 of an inch.

Don't want to argue with anyone over this but that's what I see when I rotate the pad on the Flex 3401.


It's this larger orbit where it counts, that is at the face of the buffing pad, that causes the cleaning action of the bristles of a nylon brush to abrade the foam in a much rougher way than for example a rotary buffer where the pad just rotates, no oscillation.


As far as I can tell, the most gentle way to clean a foam pad is by hand in a sink of running water or using the bucket method. The next least aggressive method would be using a Grit Guard Pad Washer.

 

[Marc08EX]

I use both my G100 and my Flex 3401. My procedure to clean the pads on the fly with the foam reconditioning brush is to lay the tool against my thigh, put the brush against the face of the foam pad then turn on the machine so that the pad is rotating. I'm trying to mimic the cleaning one can do with a rotary. I also put pressure on the pad brush enough to make the pads compress to make sure I'm getting the dried/spent product in the face of the foam pad. When I do this, I see a lot of dust or dried out particles flying out off the face of the foam pad.

Am I doing it wrong by applying pressure on the brush? Should I put the brush on the face of the pad with minimal pressure?