It is a little hard to remove hologram from M105

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jackychai

jackychai

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M105 and 205 on Rotary

I was trying correct a swirl 2003 M5, and the m105 corrected almost all the swirl. so I moved to 205 and it turns out perfect. but after removing all the polishing oil i can still see the hologram everywhere (but swirl free, weird).

so I go back to use 205 again and polish every panel, the holograms are gone, but my concern is if next time I need to polish out hard clear coat like this I need to spend too much time and a lot of products to remove the hologram.

Can you guys suggest a solution?
perhaps UC as a second step instead of M205?

or should I use menzerna products as they stated that they can take care of hard ceramic clear coat with ease?

If so, is there any thread before that do comparison between Meguiars and Menzerna products?

thanks for your input.
 
What pad and speed did us use on the rotary when compounding?

M105/205 should do the trick nicely. Other products will work as well but I use the above combo 99% of the time. I like to use a DA for the finishing work,(final polish/wax). The rotary works great for compounding and initial polishing steps.
 
As magnus said, we need to know what pads you were using. If you were using a wool or heavy compounding foam pad (like an orange or yellow LC pad), then you would need to do a middle step before moving on to M205.
 
i am using LC foam pad

M105 with orange pad @1000rpm
M205 with White pad @1400rpm
 
Which LC foam?

Maybe as an effort to reduce 105 sling, your spinning too low of an rpm on the compounding step. Not allowing the product to fully cycle.
 
Your problem is in using rotary with both 105 & 205.

With 205 you need to use a dual action polisher (not rotary) to eliminate the holograms inflicted with rotary.

G/L
 
Anytime I have toe use a rotary I follow with a da. It does not take that long and you are swirl free. Learned this from the old meguiars video tape and mike p. when he came to my shop years ago. You can even just take the 205 pad from the rotary and just put in on the da.
 
Danube said:
Your problem is in using rotary with both 105 & 205.

With 205 you need to use a dual action polisher (not rotary) to eliminate the holograms inflicted with rotary.

G/L
Click to expand...


I agree.

Trying to finish out hologram free with ONLY a rotary buffer is more difficult and the only way you will ever know if you did finish out hologram free is to chemically strip the paint and inspect in very good light. Most people don't do this step only to find out down the road they left holograms in the paint.

To, key word, "ensure" a hologram free finish without having to invest the time in chemically stripping the paint and working backwards in your process, simply change the action of the tool.

Change the action of the tool = switch to ANY type of dual action polisher for the last machine applied polish.

Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer


Mike lambert said:
Anytime I have toe use a rotary I follow with a da. It does not take that long and you are swirl free. Learned this from the old meguiars video tape and mike p. when he came to my shop years ago. You can even just take the 205 pad from the rotary and just put in on the da.
Click to expand...

Exactly Mike...

It's not about how "good" a person is with a rotary buffer, it's about two factors a person has no control over,

1. The direct drive SINGLE rotating action of the rotary buffer that imparts its own swirl pattern.

2. Paint systems are different and changing all the time. Every car on the road has a "paint system" on it.


:)
 
jackychai said:
or should I use menzerna products as they stated that they can take care of hard ceramic clear coat with ease?
Click to expand...


Most quality brand name polishes will work on any type of paint, the chemist take care of this as it's their job.


I know in some countries it's more difficult to get a DA Polisher that works and most of what I see guys in some countries stuck using is ONLY a rotary buffer. If this is your situation then get some Menzerna SF 4500 and apply this with a clean, soft finishing pad at low RPM. Practice holding the pad as flat as possible and be sure to clean the pad after each section with both a nylon pad cleaning brush to kick off any residue and then a 100% cotton terry cloth towel to adsorb and absorb any excess liquid.

If you don't know how to use a terry cloth towel to clean a foam pad I'll show this during the live broadcast on Saturday sometime while out in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Official Invitation to MIKE PHILLIPS!!!!!! - Accepted!


Then apply a good wax, sealant or coating and maintain it and if there are holograms you'll never see them...


:)
 
M105 and M205 can both be used with a rotary if used properly. If you're using M105 with an orange pad, you need to follow it up with M105 on the white pad and then use M205 with a blue pad. M205 is a finishing polish and should be used with a finishing pad.
 
It's all in the technique. You should be able to finish just about any car with a rotary if you are using propper techniques. That said, I tend to finish cars with a DA just because it's usually easier, but if I'm doing a show car prep, I always finish with a rotary to get every bit of gloss I can from the paint.
 
I find it difficult to finish out with a white pad on rotary. I don't feel likes there's much difference between orange and white. Matter fact, a good, broken in orange pad will sometimes feel softer and cut less than a newer white pad. A finer pad and working down to a low speed is the trick, but it's a huge pain.

It seems like it's almost always better to finish out with a DA. Just to be on the safe side.
 
statusdetailing said:
I find it difficult to finish out with a white pad on rotary. I don't feel likes there's much difference between orange and white. Matter fact, a good, broken in orange pad will sometimes feel softer and cut less than a newer white pad. A finer pad and working down to a low speed is the trick, but it's a huge pain.

It seems like it's almost always better to finish out with a DA. Just to be on the safe side.
Click to expand...

A white pad is not a finishing pad. To do finishing work, you would want to use a dedicated pad like a blue LC pad, regardless of the type of machine you're using. Times where you wouldn't use a dedicated finishing pad would be if you're doing a 1 step correction with a combo like Menz Power Finish and a green LC pad.
 
I'll stick to what I say about people never proving they finish out hologram free...


I just never see the pictures and documentation as to how they know 100% for sure they're leaving a 100% hologram-free finish.

I can't actually even think of any threads with pictures and the steps any detailer has posted to back up what they claim. Lots of talk... where's the walk?

Where's the threads? Pictures? Documented steps? If it's easy to do, shouldn't it be easy to prove? :laughing:


Here's a thread with some good posts on this topic...

Why would anyone use a DA for paint correction??


:dblthumb2:
 
thanks everyone!!

i will try all the method mentioned to gain more experience.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using AG Online
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I'll stick to what I say about people never proving they finish out hologram free...


I just never see the pictures and documentation as to how they know 100% for sure they're leaving a 100% hologram-free finish.

I can't actually even think of any threads with pictures and the steps any detailer has posted to back up what they claim. Lots of talk... where's the walk?

Where's the threads? Pictures? Documented steps? If it's easy to do, shouldn't it be easy to prove? :laughing:


Here's a thread with some good posts on this topic...

Why would anyone use a DA for paint correction??


:dblthumb2:
Click to expand...

Mike, I've posted plenty of vehicles that I've finished with a rotary. After work today I will search for them, but I know for a fact it is possible to finish hologram free with a rotary, even on black vehicles.

Edit: was able to find this one real quick http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...des-benz-s430-correction-tlc-auto-detail.html

Black Benz, finished with a rotary, no holograms.
 
just use sf400 or 4500 with a black pad.... done deal. you dont need a da to finish hologram free although it does make it more idiot proof.
 
on soft or medium clear i CA just use 105 and 205 combo with orange and white pad. but just this time the clear is really hard...

that's why i only tried what i knew before. but for sure i will use a da to try sometimes because polishing with a da is so much easier than compounding with a da.

i will also get couple green and blue pad to try. i have sf4500. perhaps i will get the sf4000 too.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using AG Online
 
Flannigan said:
Mike, I've posted plenty of vehicles that I've finished with a rotary. After work today I will search for them, but I know for a fact it is possible to finish hologram free with a rotary, even on black vehicles.
Click to expand...


No one needs to see the after pictures, it's the pictures that,


Show you chemically stripping the paint and documenting what you used?

  • Mineral Spirits?
  • IPA?
  • Eraser?
  • Dawn Wash?
  • APC Wash?

Then after stripping, a person would need to move the car out into to something like full overhead sunlight and take good high resolution shots showing the hologram free finish.


That's what I mean when I say no one ever proves it, they just talk about it. Or in the case of a forum, they type about it. Where's the proof? Feel free to back it up.


Besides the fact that chemically stripping paint means you're introducing the risk for marring or even scratching the paint in the process, (to a finish you just buffed out), it's also a huge time killer and what I call working backwards.

So I don't blame anyone for not doing the huge production of chemically stripping the paint and then moving the car into full sun and taking pictures but if this type of step isn't performed, how would anyone know 100% for sure they are in fact leaving a 100% hologram-free finish?

My opinion is that the answer is they don't know. They can assume and guess all they want but without some type of thorough stripping and inspecting work there's really no way to know, just assume it.

And all paints are different, what works on one paint system doesn't mean it's going to work on every paint system, this means testing on just about every car you buff out if you want to prove it to yourself or others.


I've been doing this a long time Dave and I know what paint looks like in full sun after TIME goes by after only a rotary buffer has been used on a scratch-sensitive clear coat finish.


Like I sadi... I see lots of talk... but I rarely and even never see anyone back up their claims...


:xyxthumbs:
 
Kaban said:
just use sf400 or 4500 with a black pad.... done deal. you dont need a da to finish hologram free although it does make it more idiot proof.
Click to expand...

From experience, the Menzerna SF 4000 and SF 4500 are two products that can finish out hologram-free using only a rotary buffer but again, if a person doesn't chemically strip and inspect in bright overhead light how would they know? How do you prove it?


Where are all the threads with all the pictures and documentation proving a person really is finishing out 100% hologram-free?

Just one thread? One?


:props:
 
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