Jewelling - Definition
- Thread starter Mike Phillips
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Mike Phillips
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I just think it's the right thing to do. To many people out their copy and paste information they find on forums like this and then post it as their own and that's wrong.
I've talked to Todd numerous times about the topic of having our words lifted from articles we've written, (lifted is a nice word for stealing or plagiarizing), and how frustrating it is. Todd is a very good writer when it comes to crafting and article that will help others to be successful in their garage and that's always been my goal. After years of having my work "borrowed" I made a commitment to myself to not be like others and simply practice giving due credit to where it is due.
No problem... I've learned over the years to be very careful when I write and then post anything to a forum because it seems there's always someone out there trying to find one mistake I make, or one single word they can dissect and try to turn into a wax war.
I also know that it's real easy to get a feel for a person's character by reading their posting history on any forum they frequent, I do this anytime a red flag goes up about a person and I'm always amazed out how some people reveal their true character by the things they post to forum for the whole world to read for as long as the forum exists.
A good friend of mine at Meguiar's always taught me to take the high road when it comes to issues on the forum and it's a lesson that's served me well all these years.
Like I mentioned previously in this thread, either on this forum on or MOL I was interacting in a thread where the word jewelling was being used and I sincerely asked for someone else to write the definition for all the world to use and no one ever took the opportunity to do so.
So now, probably close to two years later, I took a stab at it.
So far... doesn't look like anyone has anything to add to the definition.
:dblthumb2:
Barry,
Thanx for bringing up Todd's article...great!
__________________________________________________
If I may, I first heard the term 'jeweling' back in the fifties. When painters were laying down NUMEROUS coats of lacquer and HAND rubbing them out, they (sometimes) would say, "...just jeweling the paint."
Maybe wrong here, but I think it was from Tony Nancy when I first heard it.
This is not meant to take ANYTHING from Todd...just (maybe) a fun fact.
Bill
Thanx for bringing up Todd's article...great!
__________________________________________________
If I may, I first heard the term 'jeweling' back in the fifties. When painters were laying down NUMEROUS coats of lacquer and HAND rubbing them out, they (sometimes) would say, "...just jeweling the paint."
Maybe wrong here, but I think it was from Tony Nancy when I first heard it.
This is not meant to take ANYTHING from Todd...just (maybe) a fun fact.
Bill
Mike Phillips
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oke:
:laughing:
Thanks for the feedback :xyxthumbs:
Still working on the article... this post was just to hammer down and get into concrete the definition.
Have a few other articles and word definition to iron out also...
:dblthumb2:
Mike Phillips
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I've read similar comments like you shared above...
One thing that most of understand is that there's a lot of terms used in the detailing industry with no standardization... this thread is just an attempt to bring some standardization to this word and in the future a few other words...
No problem, just wanted to make sure you saw it.
rops:Mike Phillips
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Far be it from me to speak for Barry but in my humble opinion, any polisher that works, that is the tool is capable of removing defects by abrading the paint, then the tool can be used to jewel the paint at least to some level. The trick will be to experiment with different factors to dial-in a process that achieves the goal, things like,
Pad selection
Product selection
Arm Speed
Downward pressure
Speed Setting of the tool
I wrote an article that touches on these types of factors for polishing in general and interestingly enough, in the article I gave due credit where credit was due to person that shared with me "their" idea or analogy.
The Graphic Equalizer Analogy to Polishing Paint
Mike Pennington, the Director of Training for Meguiar's, gave me this analogy a long time ago so I want to give him credit for it because it's a good analogy BUT you have to be old enough to remember Graphic Equalizers.
Graphic Equalizers
The analogy being that you can adjust your pad, product, tool and technique just like you can adjust music using a graphic equalizer and when everything is dialed-in perfect for the paint you're working on you'll get the results you're looking for.
It does mean sometimes playing around a little to find the perfect combination of products and procedures kind of like adjusting a graphic equalizer for a single song so it sounds perfect to your ears.
When everything is right... you'll make beautiful music or in this case you create a show car finish.
Of course in order to experiment it means you need to have more than one product in your arsenal of detailing products.
Usually, a good compound, a couple of polishes with correction ability, a finishing polish and some LSP's, this could include cleaner/waxes and finishing waxes.
Clay, Car Wash, Microfiber Towels and if you work by machine then a variety of buffing pads and if you work by hand then a variety of hand applicator pads.
Barry Theal
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Forced rotation on the flex will is still considered a random movement. ( Just Forced ) I think Todd said it best here.
"
If you remember the slew of threads that asked "How to jewel with a DA?"... this is why.
This is because using a soft, non mechanical pad with a DA is really (except in rare occasion) pointless. The oscillating action of a DA requires a pad stiff enough to transfer the orbital action to the paint and a soft pad (unless pressed really hard) simply jiggles on itself like a bowl of Jello. It serves almost no ability to remove material from the paint in an even manner. On most paints you can achieve an equal/slightly better finish with a DA by using a slightly firmer pad that will transfer the orbital action with less pressure. "
The whole point where Todd talks about the soft pad that simply jiggles like jello is the best analogy. I just got off the phone with Todd after about an hour long conversation. The one thing that comes to mind is Final polishing is just that " Final Polishing" Whether you use a DA, Forced Rotation, Or a direct drive Rotory as long as your happy and your client is happy. Whats it matter. Myself have tried to jewel paint with a DA machine and it just doesn't work. I think a Rotory machine is the best option for this style of polishing. When you consider the varibles on what Todd has said, It makes sense. Simply put.
Mike great post there for sure. I think many of us fall victom to the forum debates. I say debates nicely. lol I know I have gotton into some arguments on has who the biggest polisher. :doh: I think people who learn from these mistakes are the better men! Often I also think some words come across differnetly then what was meant. I know sometimes I have written advice and people have taken it the wrong way in text. Can we get a voice forum? lol I would be a much better person at getting things across. I've always said Im not an english teacher. lol Im just a " car enhancing engineer" lol :xyxthumbs:
Often I read things that you have written with out posting a reply. One of the biggest threads that you wrote that just made a whole lot of sense was this one.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-forum-nickname-brand-your-business-name.html
Not sure if you know this, but I used to be BUFFERBARRY. lol Bufferbarry was quite the character. Here is a great shot of him. lol this is one of my first post.
Here a few years later a couple thousand miles away as Barry Theal. Here this past weekend I was honored to host a color sanding tutorial with 3D Car Care out in California.
A few of cools guys in this pic! I think you may know a few of them.
All this in a few years. Life has been good to me thats for sure. I've been blessed to truely take advantages of hard work and advice of these forums. Now if do some reseach, I had switch all my screen names to Barry Theal after your article on that was on autopia. Mike you have a lot of great advice that Im very thankfull of. NO doubt often I want to go back and just erase some things I have said on Autopia or some of my old threads that bufferbarry had posted. Even know as a mod I can permantly deleate them I won't. Often I go back and look at them and just try to remember where I came from. That in itself is important. Everything I have gotton in this industry came from others. I just capitolized on it. Of course I put in the hard work and determination, but Giving credit when its due is important. Your a walking character of this. I've seen you give credit one to many times. Your a good man. I try to lead by the examples of those who haved paved the way like yourself. I have giving credit to many for my success and always will. I even told a few of them personally how I tried to mimic them and there success. Thats a humbling exsperiance. Anyways enough with the rambling on, One thing for sure is this. Mike your a great man with lots of talent. Thanks for doing what you do. Its well respected!
Barry Theal
Mike Phillips
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I love the idea of a voice forum.
The branding of your name or your business name is just something that worked for me and I shared because it's my nature to try to help others. There's a story behind the branding story, maybe someday I'll type it up, it has to do with another "Barry"
Ah... I didn't know that, guess I never put it together... (Like you, I stay kind of busy).
Here a few years later a couple thousand miles away as Barry Theal. Here this past weekend I was honored to host a color sanding tutorial with 3D Car Care out in California.
I followed that event and have seen the picture thread. Congratulations to you and everyone involved. Helping others to learn how to do things right the first time is very rewarding and you will have changed peopled lives in a positive way that will last forever.
I have another story related to the above, I should type it up too...
A few of cools guys in this pic! I think you may know a few of them.
I know and respect all of these guys and count them all as friends and people I continually learn from them because they're willing to share what they know.
We all make mistakes, I've made them in the past and I'm going to make even more in the future. The two things I've learned about mistake are,
1. Try to learn from them so you don't repeat them.
2. Own up to your mistakes, apologize and take you lumps.
3. Forgive others when they make mistakes towards me.
Thank you for taking the time to type this reply and your kind words and like you, much of what I know was passed down to me by others, giving them credit and passing it on is just the right thing to do.
I actually have to get back on a hot project...
Rsurfer
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Sounds about right Jim. I use Ultrafina and 3M recommends 1800 rpm's.
Old Tiger
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Ron, you are such a tease!
Thanks Buddy! I will bump it up to 1800!
I just finished correcting the paint on my car with M105, in bad spots, and M205. The car looks good but I want to try jeweling it. I have search and read a lot of different opinions on the correct way to do this but I do not have a rotary. Here is what I am planning to do but would love some expert opinions.
Porter Cable set to 5
Red (soft) pad
Medium pressure, slow motion
PO85D polish
I have blue and white, Tangerine (hydro tech) pads but if I am right I should use the softest pad I can.
TIA
BTW, I could never do this for a living. I have 25+ hours in getting all the minor scratches fixed. By them time I am done I this project will take me as long as putting on the KB.
Porter Cable set to 5
Red (soft) pad
Medium pressure, slow motion
PO85D polish
I have blue and white, Tangerine (hydro tech) pads but if I am right I should use the softest pad I can.
TIA
BTW, I could never do this for a living. I have 25+ hours in getting all the minor scratches fixed. By them time I am done I this project will take me as long as putting on the KB.
02xtreme07SS
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Can anyone point me in the direction of a thorough article or video specifically about Jeweling? Preferably something more than a definition and narrative of some of the steps. I have done some searching, nothing exhaustive, and there is a lot of information out there, but it all seems to be somewhat incomplete. There definitely isn't much in the way of 50/50 shots, true before and afters, nuances of the technique, pitfalls, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Mike Phillips
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What type of tool are you using?
The jewelling step is done after machine polishing, it's an EXTRA step. If a person is doing great work to start with, then after the first machine polishing step the paint should already look pretty damn good.
Jewelling is to "try" to squeeze just a little more gloss and shine out of already great results. THEREFORE you won't see any dramatic before and after shots, the differences will be subtle. IF the differences are dramatic that means the person doesn't know what they're doing in the first place.
Most pro detailers I know that would do a multiple-step process to a car's finish would do this,
- Wash or wipe the car clean - You cannot inspect dirty paint
- Inspect the paint visually and tactically
- If above surface bonded contaminants are discovered, REMOVE THEM FIRST before machine polishing - Get them off the surface
- IF the paint has below surface defects, then do a TEST SPOT, determine what is needed to remove the defects using the least aggressive products and approach so that you remove the defects while leaving the most paint on the car. That's professionalism at its core.
IF, and those are two capital letters, IF the paint needs compounding, then compound it. If not then use a less aggressive polish like a Medium Cut Polish or a Fine Cut Polish, whatever it takes to get the job done. Categories of products are defined on page 79 of my how-to book.
- If the paint was compounded, then AFTER the paint is compound a Pro would then machine polish to remove any haze or swirls left by the machine compounding step. AT THIS POINT, assuming the Pro knows what they are doing and are using good pads, good products and good technique, the paint should look pretty damn good, even GREAT.
- After this step, AS AN OPTION, a Pro or an enthusiast could jewel the paint. A Pro would only do it if they were being paid for their time because it means re-buffing the entire car or the major gloss panels. Time is money. A pro might do this to build their reputation or maintain their reputation but again, time is money.
- An enthusiast on the other hand working on their own car has all the time in the world and can work on their own car for free. That said, after compounding and polishing, or if you only have to "polish" the paint, after either approach the paint should already look pretty damn good. Thus... no dramatic before and after.
It's really hard to capture subtle differences at this level, at this degree of perfection with a camera. Heck it's hard to see it with the naked eye in person.
Right now I have a 1940 Chevy Coupe out in the studio that we did one machine polishing step to using a Fine Cut Polish.
I'll go out and jewel it for you using an Ultra Fine Cut Polish but you won't see a dramatic difference in the before and after and that's because we already did a great job when we machine polished it.
Take a moment to read what I wrote about jeweling on pages 103 to 105 in my how-to book.
:xyxthumbs:
nuances of the technique, pitfalls, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]
02xtreme07SS
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Thanks Mike. To answer your question about the tool, I would be using my Flex PE14-2 with a black/grey LC finishing pad and some Menzerna 85RD.
And I knew I should have picked up your book again. I'll take a look at the PDF now. When I read through it the first time it was more for enjoyment, but now I'm going to have to go hack and dissect and absorb. Thanks again for the reply.
Mike Phillips
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What a coincidence, I just shot a video on how to jewel paint using
Flex PE14
Lake Country 5.5" Blue Finishing Pad
Menzerna SF 4500
Since I have already polished and waxed the 1936 Chevy Coupe I start out re-polishing a panel using Menzerna FF 3000 to do two things,
1. Remove the previoiusly applied wax
2. To replicate what paint should look like after a NORMAL polishing procedure before attempting to jewel the paint.
I offer some tips and techniques in the video but to be honest, the paint looks the same in the video as I shot this with my iphone.
I think I covered most of the points in my how-to book in this short video. I'm on my second time trying to upload to YouTube if it fails this time I'll ask Yancy to give me a hand.
Hang tight...
Mike Phillips
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Also, Menzerna changed their product names and labels, might as well start the switch-over...
Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers
Menzerna has introduced all new labels and product names for identifying their products. I know it's easy to stick with what you know and change can be hard but the new product names and identifying numbers are here to stay so might as well make the switch when talking and typing about them..
PG 1000 – PowerGloss Compound (S34A)
SI 1500 – Super Intensive Polish (PO83)
IP 2000 – Intensive Polish (PO91E)
PF 2500 – Power Finish Polish (PO203)
FF 3000 – Final Finish Polish (PO85U)
SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)
SF 4500 – Super Finish Polish (PO85RD)
Menzerna Power Lock Polymer Paint Sealant
No label change at this time for,
:xyxthumbs:
Menzerna - New Names and Product Numbers
Menzerna has introduced all new labels and product names for identifying their products. I know it's easy to stick with what you know and change can be hard but the new product names and identifying numbers are here to stay so might as well make the switch when talking and typing about them..
PG 1000 – PowerGloss Compound (S34A)
SI 1500 – Super Intensive Polish (PO83)
IP 2000 – Intensive Polish (PO91E)
PF 2500 – Power Finish Polish (PO203)
FF 3000 – Final Finish Polish (PO85U)
SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)
SF 4500 – Super Finish Polish (PO85RD)
Menzerna Power Lock Polymer Paint Sealant
No label change at this time for,
:xyxthumbs: