Layering?

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Layering is tempting to do for many reasons. At what point though are you doing more harm than good? If a product contains some % of wax, won't layering it just be removing the existing protection and adding new protection?
 
Having this problem myself I can tell you that when I do a contact wash after using a stronger pre-wash foam (CarPro Lift/Gyeon Restart/Griot's Garage foaming surface prep) my finish has more clarity without a doubt!

If your really intune with your finish you'll notice it and either back off on toppers with protection or mix in stronger pre-washes like the ones I mentioned above. I don't feel they strip the protection but remove traffic film and/or "extra" layers that maybe be clogging the finish. The Guz coined a term called making your finish "mute" which I think is spot on

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Good to know, thanks Klasse!

I have noticed in the past when I had previous protection on my car (it may have been 3 in 1 not sure) that over time it looked like the water behavior was slowing down. I then did a wash with Turtle Wax Max Power soap at full strength (10.2 pH) and as soon as I rinsed it off, the beading was back as strong as new. So what you and Guz said makes perfect sense.
 
This was it:

Help explain this?


I may just use TW Max Power every several washes to do a deeper clean. Stuff is dirt cheap and works really well. They claim in leaves nothing behind either.
 
I personally think “layering” is one of the biggest scams the Detailing industry has ever put on the public. Sure I agree with a solid base product plus an occasional topper but the idea of putting on three or four different products is just ridiculous. I’ve tried it and I don’t see much more gloss than a good solid base and topper. To me it’s like “lather-rinse- repeat”… The biggest scam that shampoo industry has put on people in history. Again, obviously just my opinion.
 
glen e said:
I personally think “layering” is one of the biggest scams the Detailing industry is ever put on the public. Sure I agree with a solid base product plus an occasional topper but the idea of putting on three or four different products is just ridiculous. I’ve tried it and I don’t see much more gloss than a good solid base and topper. To me it’s like “lather rinse repeat”… The biggest scam that shampoo industry has put on people in history. Again, obviously just my opinion.
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I agree. From a chemistry perspective too, I don't think it is a good idea. The surface can only handle so much of any one product. Plus, adding more could be stripping what is already there. Then you get into chemistries that don't work well together. I'm more of a purist and like to stay with one brand due to compatibility issues.
 
I'm not sure it's as much a scam as it is there's people like myself that enjoy the process of toppers. I think toppers like Beadmaker and the new Dream Maker are what people like me gravitate too, the later more so as it doesn't have any or very little protection or protection that washes away soon. I mean look at the ceramic wash soaps, this too helps our "fix".

They know what their doing for sure

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NJNinja said:
I agree. From a chemistry perspective too, I don't think it is a good idea. The surface can only handle so much of any one product. Plus, adding more could be stripping what is already there. Then you get into chemistries that don't work well together. I'm more of a purist and like to stay with one brand due to compatibility issues.
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^^^^ this ^^^^

Yvan LaCroix has stated numerous times over the years that after you finish applying the 10th layer of wax you have exactly 1 layer of wax on your car

The carriers and solvents built into the wax strip each previous coat

I am not sure that applies to the multi product layering scheme because frequently each layer is slightly different chemistry but I generally agree with the stick with the brand program to maximize your chances of everything playing well together

YMMV


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chilly said:
^^^^ this ^^^^

Yvan LaCroix has stated numerous times over the years that after you finish applying the 10th layer of wax you have exactly 1 layer of wax on your car

The carriers and solvents built into the wax strip each previous coat

I am not sure that applies to the multi product layering scheme because frequently each layer is slightly different chemistry but I generally agree with the stick with the brand program to maximize your chances of everything playing well together

YMMV


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Yvan is where I first heard of this too. Makes perfect sense. If anything, it is probably best to stay relatively within a product line, although compatibility issues can still happen. For example I'm using GG 3 in 1. I would not want to add their Poly Gloss on top or below the 3 in 1. The chemistry is different and you'd mitigate whatever went on first.
 
Yup Yup

Everyone will scream "amateur, hack..." but I love 3D Speed topped with 3D Poxy, and then I break the cycle with OCW just because I always have some around

My rigs here are garaged but that combo lasts and lasts for me through months of weekly maintenance washes

I intend to try 3D Express wax at some point and see if the "family" approach is better or worse than OCW

I am going to try TW HSWW as well simply because others on here have raved about it and it will be interesting to see if it works well with other brands
 
My flame suit is on and fully buttoned up...Ivan LaCriox, the same guy who calls washing a car with soap and water "so 20th century". Now I love RW and WW but sometime washing with soap and water gets into every crack and crevice.

I know he's got more knowledge in his bowtie than I have between the ears but

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I hear you. There are certainly times for both and as you said, sometimes you need to saturate your car with water and foam to get really dirty cars clean, and to get to areas you just cant with a RW/WW. Yvan is an interesting guy. I do recall Yvan saying he is cheap and lazy too lol.
 
I’m not a layering fan. I chose a good coating to enjoy its benefits. Pretty much any topper will reduce its performance (while adding some protection/longevity). I’d rather the coating doesn’t last as long but gives me its full potential.
 
No need for a flame suit

I am not saying everything out of his mouth is gospel

Some of his stuff comes across as nuts to me

There is enough detailing dogma passed around as fact without adding more

I use ONR as a rinseless wash on occasion but I don’t think it’s the be all end all of car washing

There is frequently no substitute for a bunch of water and suds

I just got through defending my layering process on another thread

I LIKE layering

I just think it takes some thought and understanding about what you are using and how you use it

The bottom line is it’s fun messing with it and it can be beneficial

There’s room for all of us and our pet processes in the detailing world


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chilly said:
No need for a flame suit

I am not saying everything out of his mouth is gospel

Some of his stuff comes across as nuts to me

There is enough detailing dogma passed around as fact without adding more

I use ONR as a rinseless wash on occasion but I don’t think it’s the be all end all of car washing

There is frequently no substitute for a bunch of water and suds

I just got through defending my layering process on another thread

I LIKE layering

I just think it takes some thought and understanding about what you are using and how you use it

The bottom line is it’s fun messing with it and it can be beneficial

There’s room for all of us and our pet processes in the detailing world


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Oh no your good, the flame suit was for what I said about that guy. Like his BRS for instance. I use a grout sponge w/o an issue, even when I joined AG and had a Honda w/ software paint, no problem. I also pre-treat almost everytime, he seems to think it's unneeded, whatever dude but if there's actual dirt on their I'm pre-treating 1000% of the time.

Best of luck to him and his new coating venture...

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Klasse Act said:
Oh no your good, the flame suit was for what I said about that guy. Like his BRS for instance. I use a grout sponge w/o an issue, even when I joined AG and had a Honda w/ software paint, no problem. I also pre-treat almost everytime, he seems to think it's unneeded, whatever dude but if there's actual dirt on their I'm pre-treating 1000% of the time.

Best of luck to him and his new coating venture...

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I’m out of the loop out here in the sticks…

Coating venture?

Not that it matters

Competition generally means innovation and improvement

Win win?


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He's apart of whatever company Pan the Organizer coated his car with, actually Ivan and some woman coated Pan's 911 Turbo S with this product.

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Gotcha

I gave up on that channel a long time ago

Even before the drama

One long commercial


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Klasse Act said:
He's apart of whatever company Pan the Organizer coated his car with, actually Ivan and some woman coated Pan's 911 Turbo S with this product.

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I don't think he is part of that coating company though. He seems to be more of a consultant. I saw him with Mckee's in a video not too long ago.
 
NJNinja said:
Not a fan of Pan the Sponsorizer. I don't think he is part of that coating company though. He seems to be more of a consultant. I saw him with Mckee's in a video not too long ago.
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No...Ivan LaCriox is apart of the company, maybe I phrased it wrong. I understand people don't like Pan, not saying this is you but alot of people have a problem with confidence. He didn't do himself any favors insulting what someone drives and/or their income if he did infact do this, I took the person's word because I'm like that, one of my many faults.

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