Leatherique vs. Swissvax

Hi Astonmartin,

If you do not, treat the leather & allow it to be exposed it will dry out, become more brittle, & prone to cracking due to aging. The most supple the leather can be is on the live animal, who's body nourishes the hide. Neglecting to supply nutrients either oil based, or a more nourishing natural proteins, will result in rapid aging & no longer be useful. Leatherique nourishes leather, with proteins & other ingredients, so as to be more like, what the hide would get from a live animal.

Many leather treatments are clean, then condition, with an oil based conditioner. The Rejuvenator proteins, vitamins etc. is allowed to nourish, for as long as you leave it on (I suggest 8 hrs), so its not quite the same process as most leather treatments.

Think about this way "all" life forms are "organic" (scientific) meaning of organic, is all life forms are carbon based. Water h20 is inorganic, no carbon. Once & organic form dies, it no longer, has the the ability to maintain it's form, & unless something is done it will rot.

By treating leather with a high end product 1 or 2 times per year, (more natural like prod), the leather will stay supple. Failure overtime can result, in cracks, & emergency treatment to stop further degrading, neglected hides, can become candidates, for dye job, so as to bring back some beauty. Heat makes the decay process quicker, with the exception of heat by Rejuvenator, which nourishes & draws contaminants to the surface. So after treatment heat now becomes the enemy, should protect from damage for 6 - 12 mo. Your mileage may vary.
 
Ricorocks said:
Hi Astonmartin,

If you do not, treat the leather & allow it to be exposed it will dry out, become more brittle, & prone to cracking due to aging. The most supple the leather can be is on the live animal, who's body nourishes the hide. Neglecting to supply nutrients either oil based, or a more nourishing natural proteins, will result in rapid aging & no longer be useful. Leatherique nourishes leather, with proteins & other ingredients, so as to be more like, what the hide would get from a live animal.

Many leather treatments are clean, then condition, with an oil based conditioner. The Rejuvenator proteins, vitamins etc. is allowed to nourish, for as long as you leave it on (I suggest 8 hrs), so its not quite the same process as most leather treatments.

Think about this way "all" life forms are "organic" (scientific) meaning of organic, is all life forms are carbon based. Water h20 is inorganic, no carbon. Once & organic form dies, it no longer, has the the ability to maintain it's form, & unless something is done it will rot.

By treating leather with a high end product 1 or 2 times per year, (more natural like prod), the leather will stay supple. Failure overtime can result, in cracks, & emergency treatment to stop further degrading, neglected hides, can become candidates, for dye job, so as to bring back some beauty. Heat makes the decay process quicker, with the exception of heat by Rejuvenator, which nourishes & draws contaminants to the surface. So after treatment heat now becomes the enemy, should protect from damage for 6 - 12 mo. Your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...
No leather conditioner is oil based. The rejuvenating oil isn't an oil, they just happen to call it that because people think that's what leather needs.

Leather doesn't really like oil in general actually.
 
I'm not suggesting, the prime ingredient is "some" leather conditioners is Quaker State 20W-40, or Pennzoil Synthetic.

Some products use a derivative, or oil base, or oil derived by product.

What's important here is what distinguishes high end products, from low end products & what makes the difference, often times it comes down to the cost of ingredients used.

I still have Gloveoleum, you could pour this into a (crankcase), used for sold for conditioning, "baseball" gloves.

Likewise "SaddleSoap" oil derived, & high end Leather conditioners caution against using it, at it tends to dry the leather.
 
Ricorocks said:
I'm not suggesting, the prime ingredient is "some" leather conditioners is Quaker State 20W-40, or Pennzoil Synthetic.

Some products use a derivative, or oil base, or oil derived by product.

What's important here is what distinguishes high end products, from low end products & what makes the difference, often times it comes down to the cost of ingredients used.

I still have Gloveoleum, you could pour this into a (crankcase), used for sold for conditioning, "baseball" gloves.

Likewise "SaddleSoap" oil derived, & high end Leather conditioners caution against using it, at it tends to dry the leather.
Click to expand...
Uncoated leather is different than coated leather like that found in baseball gloves.

Anyway, straight from Leatherique's own site

"PLEASE NOTE that there is NO OIL in the Rejuvinator Oil that name is from the 1960's when people EXPECTED an OIL for their Leather. Hence the name change to LEATHER REJUVINATOR"
 
Well!
conman1395 said:

No leather conditioner is oil based.
Click to expand...

U want more examples? Than the two already given?

I have not made the claim, that Rejuvenator, is oil based. I've repeatedly said it contains: proteins, & nourishment for leather.

Furthermore SOME products sold to treat leather do contain & oil based ingredients.
 
Ricorocks said:
Well!
conman1395 said:



U want more examples? Than the two already given?

I have not made the claim, that Rejuvenator, is oil based. I've repeatedly said it contains: proteins, & nourishment for leather.

Furthermore SOME products sold to treat leather do contain & oil based ingredients.
Click to expand...


"PLEASE NOTE that there is NO OIL in the Rejuvinator Oil that name is from the 1960's when people EXPECTED an OIL for their Leather. Hence the name change to LEATHER REJUVINATOR"
Click to expand...

Quick review of my scribbling, I cannot see where I've used, Rejuvenator an oil TOGETHER, so as to imply that Leatherique's product contained oil.
 
Some other products which contain oil or a oil based derivative, plus example of oil base derivative.

Note how lanolin is used to "moisturize" skin, I'll bet it does the same for leather.

Adding moisture back to leather, keeps it from drying out & rotting, hence lanolin oil, gives the oil based derivative, moisturizing Lanolin.
 
IMO:

1.) There seems to be an overall lack of understanding,
of the various leather "types"; and without knowing the
actual leather type: it stands to reason it's difficult to
select the correct leather care products.

2.) And what's with this yearning/burning desire to
"nourish/feed" auto-leather (RE: leather that's been
dead for quite awhile)...with oils and "conditioners""?!?!

3.) Marketing hype:
•I'll take what I consider a rather benign pathway and
say that some Companies, that market leather care
products, just may not always be forthcoming.

•Neatsfoot oil, lanolin, mink oil, collagen, saddle soap,
furniture polish, oil, varnish, ammonia, aloe, etc.:
These products have no place in auto leather care!



Bob
 
Hi Bob,

There is one type of leather, that being the hide from a steer. So what I think your saying is, how that hide is treated, by the auto mfg.. This is pretty much NOT divulged by the mfg. or is hard to find out. The high end products, which many people swear by, have pretty much figured out, how to treat "whatever" treatment the leather received. This is why they continuously, get recommended by knowledgeable folks in, all industries associated. Contrast that to some lesser products, like those I've mentioned, pretty much those low end products, are not being praised.

Take a look at not cared for leather (or anything else neglected) it becomes, something we do not find desirable.
The burning/yearning to nourish/feed, is a way to slow the "rotting or decay" process. Properly cared for leather nourished or treated with, proper products, will remain desirable longer, than not treated, or less desirable products.

True

Collagen is a protein - could you please explain it's deleterious affects on leather, or why it has no place in auto leather care?

Aloe Vera - Please explain why this has no place in leather. I will say this it has "moisturizing emollient effect" on skin or hides.

I am unaware of furniture polish, or varnish being used, by the auto leather treatment industry or companies.

Ammonia - NH3 is a strong base, & may be added, so as to achieve the desired pH the mfg. seeks. Or it could be a trace substance from, interaction of other ingredients. As a main ingredient in a product, for "auto leather care" I'm also unaware.

Neatsfoot oil, lanolin, mink oil, & oil - All have the same goal, delay the rotting of the hide. Lanolin does have moisturizing qualities, so would be the lesser evil, from "THIS" list.

Skin or hide, will rot, after death, the rotting will be "speed up, quickened" by heat. All chemical processes, (that i can think of) will be quickened bye heat, due to increased molecular motion/activity. All of the stuff we put on leather, is an attempt to slow the rotting process, one widely used approach is to re-introduce moisturizers into the hide.

Watch some beauty product commercials, constantly talking, about moisturizing, & the suns damaging affects. If your anything like me, my wifes skin, is much softer than mine. You can think of it, as her "detailing products" to keep, skin looking good. Now while alive wife & steer, the body does most of the work, keeping skin soft & supple. At death, the body no longer works, so as to keep the skin soft & supple, & rotting begins, accelerated by heat, so to delay, we try oil etc. Products like Leatherique, keep getting accolades & endorsements, recommendations, because it works, sans those ingredients, that you find objectionable.
 
Ricorocks said:
Hi Bob,

There is one type of leather, that being the hide from a steer. So what I think your saying is, how that hide is treated, by the auto mfg.. This is pretty much NOT divulged by the mfg. or is hard to find out. The high end products, which many people swear by, have pretty much figured out, how to treat "whatever" treatment the leather received. This is why they continuously, get recommended by knowledgeable folks in, all industries associated. Contrast that to some lesser products, like those I've mentioned, pretty much those low end products, are not being praised.

Take a look at not cared for leather (or anything else neglected) it becomes, something we do not find desirable.
The burning/yearning to nourish/feed, is a way to slow the "rotting or decay" process. Properly cared for leather nourished or treated with, proper products, will remain desirable longer, than not treated, or less desirable products.

True

Collagen is a protein - could you please explain it's deleterious affects on leather, or why it has no place in auto leather care?

Aloe Vera - Please explain why this has no place in leather. I will say this it has "moisturizing emollient effect" on skin or hides.

I am unaware of furniture polish, or varnish being used, by the auto leather treatment industry or companies.

Ammonia - NH3 is a strong base, & may be added, so as to achieve the desired pH the mfg. seeks. Or it could be a trace substance from, interaction of other ingredients. As a main ingredient in a product, for "auto leather care" I'm also unaware.

Neatsfoot oil, lanolin, mink oil, & oil - All have the same goal, delay the rotting of the hide. Lanolin does have moisturizing qualities, so would be the lesser evil, from "THIS" list.

Skin or hide, will rot, after death, the rotting will be "speed up, quickened" by heat. All chemical processes, (that i can think of) will be quickened bye heat, due to increased molecular motion/activity. All of the stuff we put on leather, is an attempt to slow the rotting process, one widely used approach is to re-introduce moisturizers into the hide.

Watch some beauty product commercials, constantly talking, about moisturizing, & the suns damaging affects. If your anything like me, my wifes skin, is much softer than mine. You can think of it, as her "detailing products" to keep, skin looking good. Now while alive wife & steer, the body does most of the work, keeping skin soft & supple. At death, the body no longer works, so as to keep the skin soft & supple, & rotting begins, accelerated by heat, so to delay, we try oil etc. Products like Leatherique, keep getting accolades & endorsements, recommendations, because it works, sans those ingredients, that you find objectionable.
Click to expand...
Leather is not hide. We're simply talking terms here, but hide becomes leather once it's tanned. This has nothing to do with the color or heat to darken the leather - it refers to the process which hide is treated to permanently alter the proteins in hide to prevent decaying and used to be done with tanin but is now done with a vegetable based solution.

This is why my uncle has had a pair of cowboy boots older than me and they haven't rotted. He cleans them with water and conditions every other year or so. I'm not saying Leatherique is bad and I'm not saying that these other leather products mentioned are bad, but I am saying that leather is not comparable to skin. It is chemically altered to make it not like skin so it will last.
 
And no, you never said Leatherique had oil in it.

Also, (again a matter of terms) just because something isn't oil based doesn't mean that it has no oils. The product can be free of oil, but that isn't what makes it water based.

HD Protect is water based (per David from HD) but I know it has cosmetic grade conditioners which I'm pretty sure aren't too different from the oils you mentioned. I don't remember what conditioners are in it, I'll look it up or try and find out after classes today.
 
Hello Conman,

Conman said,

...
alter the proteins in hide to prevent decaying
Click to expand...
...

This process slows the process of decay, it does not stop decay permanently!

What do you think would happen, if you took a tanned leather & just let it sit in the desert, for X amt of time. Will it degrade overtime? What process do you think, causes the degradation?
How do stop or slow the degradation of the tanned leather?

Every see the crusty face of someone who has sun damaged skin? The same exact process, that cause the ugliness, on the person, occurs with leather. How to slow the damage, stay out of the sun/heat, put protective barrier on, so as to shield (protect) shin/leather, from the damaging affects, of the sun.

Conman wrote:

Also, (again a matter of terms) just because something isn't oil based doesn't mean that it has no oils. The product can be free of oil, but that isn't what makes it water based.
Click to expand...

I'm confused by this comment. Water based means, that something, readily dissolves in water.

Example: Generally two types of adhesives, can be had

Water based adhesives - you would use, water to remove, the sticky.

Adhesives made from Organic compounds (contains carbon), you use, a carbon based solvent, (frequently oil, or oil based product), as they contain carbon.

Water used to remove a carbon based, adhesive would work very poorly - and likewise oil or carbon based, does a poor job removing, water based stickie stuff.

H20, Ammonia NH3 - Are inorganic (no carbon)

CH4 methane, You and all things alive, or dead - organic (contains carbon).

Two disciplines exist in CHEMISTRY organic & in-organic, what separates or distinguishes the two is the presence or absence, of CARBON.

Carbon based things will rot/decay, becomes oil or can become oil.

Back to the desert, the sun evaporates the water or moisture from the, tanned hide, causing to become brittle, prone to cracking, & less desirable. Replacing the moisture in the tanned leather, (lanolin, Aloe), beauty products (cosmetics) skin, adds moisture, back, delaying postponing, the decay.

What is HD & who's David from HD? It does not matter, what laundry list of ingredients, or conditioners is:

There job is to delay, postpone, rotting or decay. It can be more than one, strategy, to introduce stuff to skin, leather, or other organic things. Less dry feels more soft & supple. Likewise cheap or not so good products, try to do the same, prevent further damage. It's fairly easy (little work), to know what products are good & the less desirable products.

Leathrique - high end product, more expensive, not hard to find out, It's a great product. It's goal (like cheaper prods) is to, clean, somewhat reverse the decay process, & provide a modicum of protection from future damage.

The chemistry & process is correct, here whether, were talking skin or cows (both organic), tis why the products share the same strategy & work.

Heisenberg
 
Ricorocks said:
Hello Conman,

Conman said,

......

This process slows the process of decay, it does not stop decay permanently!

What do you think would happen, if you took a tanned leather & just let it sit in the desert, for X amt of time. Will it degrade overtime? What process do you think, causes the degradation?
How do stop or slow the degradation of the tanned leather?

Every see the crusty face of someone who has sun damaged skin? The same exact process, that cause the ugliness, on the person, occurs with leather. How to slow the damage, stay out of the sun/heat, put protective barrier on, so as to shield (protect) shin/leather, from the damaging affects, of the sun.

Conman wrote:



I'm confused by this comment. Water based means, that something, readily dissolves in water.

Example: Generally two types of adhesives, can be had

Water based adhesives - you would use, water to remove, the sticky.

Adhesives made from Organic compounds (contains carbon), you use, a carbon based solvent, (frequently oil, or oil based product), as they contain carbon.

Water used to remove a carbon based, adhesive would work very poorly - and likewise oil or carbon based, does a poor job removing, water based stickie stuff.

H20, Ammonia NH3 - Are inorganic (no carbon)

CH4 methane, You and all things alive, or dead - organic (contains carbon).

Two disciplines exist in CHEMISTRY organic & in-organic, what separates or distinguishes the two is the presence or absence, of CARBON.

Carbon based things will rot/decay, becomes oil or can become oil.

Back to the desert, the sun evaporates the water or moisture from the, tanned hide, causing to become brittle, prone to cracking, & less desirable. Replacing the moisture in the tanned leather, (lanolin, Aloe), beauty products (cosmetics) skin, adds moisture, back, delaying postponing, the decay.

What is HD & who's David from HD? It does not matter, what laundry list of ingredients, or conditioners is:

There job is to delay, postpone, rotting or decay. It can be more than one, strategy, to introduce stuff to skin, leather, or other organic things. Less dry feels more soft & supple. Likewise cheap or not so good products, try to do the same, prevent further damage. It's fairly easy (little work), to know what products are good & the less desirable products.

Leathrique - high end product, more expensive, not hard to find out, It's a great product. It's goal (like cheaper prods) is to, clean, somewhat reverse the decay process, & provide a modicum of protection from future damage.

The chemistry & process is correct, here whether, were talking skin or cows (both organic), tis why the products share the same strategy & work.

Heisenberg
Click to expand...

David from HD would be David Fernani from 3D/HD the makers of HD Polish, Adapt, 3D Waterless Wash, 3D Towel Kleen.

I'm pretty much done with this now. I don't know if this is an argument or what, either way what we're debating is the ingredients of products that are safe to use anyway.
 
Challynger said:
I recently picked up a '96 M3 and need to deep clean the leather seats. I've heard good things about both Leatherique and Swissvax. Does anyone have experience with both to offer comparisons?
Click to expand...
POLISHANGEL makes a really good two step system for leather called Charisma and Bella Clean. It's similar to the Leatherique system where you apply the Charisma first and wait for it to work 30 minutes to infinity depending on how long you want to leave it on the leather. I usually apply the Charisma and allow it to sit a minimum of overnight to allow the product to work getting down deep into the pores of the leather to draw out any impurities, sweat, salt, body oils, etc. You then follow up with their Bella Clean leather cleaner as the second step to clean away everything that the Charisma drew out of the leather pores. Once you complete the second step, you are left with a soft, supple, matte finish, and clean leather. The system works great but it's definitely pricey and a lot of people won't pay the premium for it. It's really designed for detailing enthusiasts, but like all the other Polishangel products, they both work fantastic. And the Bella Clean has such a great refreshing orange oil scent that it leaves the whole interior smelling fresh. The scent of the Polishangel interior products is incredible and one of the best scents in my opinion for interior detailing products. All of their interior products have that same wonderful orange oil/fresh scent. ;)
 
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