Lurker Coming In With Questions

[jeech]

Hey guys! I've been lurking for the past few months, and I've decided to finally jump in and posit some of my questions that I haven't found good answers for.

I have a yellow '04 suzuki SV650 that I just recently picked up a month ago. It's paint is in the best shape of any vehicle I have ever had. It has inspired me to take good care of it. Right now I'm using Mother's Clay Bar, Meg's carnauba cleaning wax and Megs Gold Class carnauba paste wax.

I will be getting some wolfgang finishing glaze and wolfgang Deep Gloss sealant, and I've been considering wolfgang TSR.

My first question is: Do I need a machine to use swirl remover? I'm currently planning on doing it by hand. I just can't justify an orbital for a motorcycle, especially since its my only vehicle.

When you guys top, do you reapply the top multiple times before you end up resealing? In other words, you seal and then top, then go a month or so and reapply the top without sealing, doing this again until its time to reseal? If so, do you clay bar in between sealings?

With a wash, does the dilution really matter? I ask because the current wash I'm using is not nearly sudsy enough, but I'm worried if I use more concentrate that it might start stripping LSP.

 

[SON1C]

you wont get perfect by hand, but if its just a bike, i dont think investing 150+ into a machine is worth it imo, especially since its already in good condition

stripping the lsp on a higher concentrate depends on the soap i believe

i'd reapply when you notice the beading is gone/fading

i wouldnt apply the gold class to the cleaner wax, seems redundant to me, both are carnaubas

 

[jeech]

I just don't like finishing with a cleaner wax...I could just be making it up but I swear I get a much better gloss if I finish with a finishing wax than if I leave it at a cleaner.

I agree with you about the machine. I figured I probably won't achieve perfection by hand with a swirl remover, but I'll still see a noticeable difference, right?

 

[umi000]

Hey guys! I've been lurking for the past few months, and I've decided to finally jump in and posit some of my questions that I haven't found good answers for.

I have a yellow '04 suzuki SV650 that I just recently picked up a month ago. It's paint is in the best shape of any vehicle I have ever had. It has inspired me to take good care of it. Right now I'm using Mother's Clay Bar, Meg's carnauba cleaning wax and Megs Gold Class carnauba paste wax.

I will be getting some wolfgang finishing glaze and wolfgang Deep Gloss sealant, and I've been considering wolfgang TSR.

My first question is: Do I need a machine to use swirl remover? I'm currently planning on doing it by hand. I just can't justify an orbital for a motorcycle, especially since its my only vehicle.

You can polish my hand. It'll require a lot of time and effort, but given that the paint is in good shape, and you're working on a motorcycle, not a car, it'll definitely be doable. I would suggest going with one of Meguiar's SMAT products like Swirl-X, Scratch-X 2.0, or Ultimate Compound instead though - Wolfgang TSR is a DAT product whose abrasives need to be broken down (which might be difficult by hand), versus these SMAT products where you can stop once you've achieved the level of correction desired.

When you guys top, do you reapply the top multiple times before you end up resealing? In other words, you seal and then top, then go a month or so and reapply the top without sealing, doing this again until its time to reseal? If so, do you clay bar in between sealings?

I personally don't - I apply my LSP, up to two layers for even coverage if possible, then just wash and QD. I may maintain with a spray wax mid-way through my maintenance cycle (usually six weeks), but at the end of that cycle, I will strip off (using a pre-wax cleaner) and re-apply a fresh layer. Claying will degrade or possibly strip your LSP, so you do need to re-apply your sealant/wax if you clay.

With a wash, does the dilution really matter? I ask because the current wash I'm using is not nearly sudsy enough, but I'm worried if I use more concentrate that it might start stripping LSP.

My opinion is that dilution does matter, and that higher concentrations might degrade your LSP (this is particularly important for those soaps which have such a high recommended dilution, like the CG soaps). Don't be too concerned about suds - unless you're using the soap in a foam gun/cannon, suds don't really matter, as long as the soap is well-lubricated.

 

[A.P.A.D.]

when working on bikes, my own or others, i like to use the PC 7424 with the 4" pads. gets the tank looking a lot nicer than doing it by hand. plus, u could use the machine to have fun with your other rides too. the PC is really cheap, but it really up to u on what kind of results u want.

also, u can use it PC with carpet brush attachments for your vehicle carpets as well. great machine and makes work easier and more fun when working on paint, bike or car.

 

[jeech]

You can polish my hand. It'll require a lot of time and effort, but given that the paint is in good shape, and you're working on a motorcycle, not a car, it'll definitely be doable. I would suggest going with one of Meguiar's SMAT products like Swirl-X, Scratch-X 2.0, or Ultimate Compound instead though - Wolfgang TSR is a DAT product whose abrasives need to be broken down (which might be difficult by hand), versus these SMAT products where you can stop once you've achieved the level of correction desired.

Thanks, this is really helpful! I generally understand what you're saying, but would you mind defining DAT and SMAT?

 

[jeech]

...plus, u could use the machine to have fun with your other rides too. the PC is really cheap, but it really up to u on what kind of results u want.

also, u can use it PC with carpet brush attachments for your vehicle carpets as well. great machine and makes work easier and more fun when working on paint, bike or car.

Well, since the bike is my only ride, this is kind of a moot point :xyxthumbs:

 

[umi000]

Thanks, this is really helpful! I generally understand what you're saying, but would you mind defining DAT and SMAT?

I'm pretty sure Mike has an article on this already, let me go and find it...

Yep, here you go: The SMAT PACK - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products...

Relevant quote from the article:

What's the difference between DAT and SMAT

SMAT - Super Micro Abrasives Technology
DAT - Diminishing Abrasives Technology


DAT - Diminishing Abrasives Technology
Diminishing Abrasives are a category of abrasives that actually break down, pulverize and disintegrate into nothingness as you work them against the paint.

For example, a diminishing abrasive will start out a certain size and/or shape, then under pressure over time as they are worked against the paint they will actually breakdown or break apart. This means they start out aggressive and thus aggressively abrading the paint, as they are worked under pressure over time they begin to break down and as they breakdown their aggressiveness level is reduced to the point that when correctly worked they are completely broken down and all you have left is a mixture of spent or used-up diminishing abrasives and the carrying agent or base they were embodied in to start with. There's also a certain amount of removed paint in this resulting mixture.



SMAT - Super Micro Abrasives Technology
Super Micro Abrasives are as the name states microscopic in size and do not break down like diminishing abrasives. While they may not breakdown like a diminishing abrasive, there does come a point where there effectiveness falls off in performance, my guess is that this is a cumulative effect of the base formula they are embodied in dissipates while particles of removed paint build up in the residue adulterating or diluting their effectiveness.

Just to note, this same adulterating or diluting effect takes place with any abrasive product because as the abrasive remove small particles of paint, these small particle of paint join into the mixture thus changing the ratio or percentage of abrasives to the base formula.


What's the practical difference?
The biggest difference that I can share is this, with diminishing abrasive technology you MUST work the product until the abrasives have completely broken down to insure you don't leave any swirls in the paint. The reason for this is because if you stop buffing before the abrasives have completely broken down then they are still cutting or abrading the paint, thus leaving swirls in the paint.

This isn't really a problem because most diminishing abrasive products when used correctly will break down over a normal buffing cycle, (period of time and number of passes), to sufficiently break the abrasives down. It's usually only an issue for people new to car detailing who are learning as they go.


With Super Micro Abrasive Technology, theoretically, because the abrasives don't break down, or more specifically because the abrasives don't break down like diminishing abrasives break down, you can stop anywhere in the buffing cycle without leaving swirls caused by the abrasives. This would tend to make SMAT products more "Bubba-Proof" with an easier or more flat learning curve.

 

[h83d]

oppss, already answered in upper post.

 

[jeech]

Thanks Umi! Bubba-proof sounds good to me as a noob. I have always subscribed to the philosophy that Mike follows - "use the least aggressive product/method that gets the job done."