Making the first big purchase

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C.Moore

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Hello everyone, I'm looking to take it to the next level when it comes to detailing .. I'm not looking to start up a business or anything like that but maybe just as a hobby .. I've been looking at the car care kits and it seems the wolf gang and Black fire are highly rated but my biggest questions are which polisher and pads to get and how many .. The only items I have now are over the counter items you can get anywhere but I'm wanting to get into paint corrections and turn scratches into mirrors .. Thanks for any help
 
The BLACKFIRE and Wolfgang lineup is a great place to start. Plenty of great products in either lineup.

As others mentioned, start off reading and digesting as much as you can about detailing.

You will get many varying answers on which polisher to start with. My machine of choice is the Flex 3401 equipped with the Lake Country Hybrid pads and Menzerna polishes.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...rning-3401-menzerna-products-hybrid-pads.html
 
My recommendation for a beginner is the GG6 Polisher due to it's ease of use, price, and warranty.
For pads I recommend Lake Country Hybrid or CCS. There are lots of other good ones too but those are my weapons of choice. You will see often on here there is no such thing as too many pads. I recommend 2 or more of each: heavy cutting, polishing, finishing.
 
The Porter Cable 7424xp is probably my favorite. I have a 3401, and a Duetto, but the PC seems to work best for me.

The GG6 seems very popular due to it's price/power combination.

I also like select Buff and Shine, and Lake Country CCS pads,
 
Griots garage da with low profile pads. If you want results without paying body parts for small containers, check out Meguiars Detailers Line. Outside of them, I use dp tire cleaner, Garry dean juice boost for sealant, and stoners for glass.
 
C.Moore said:
Hello everyone, I'm looking to take it to the next level when it comes to detailing .. I'm not looking to start up a business or anything like that but maybe just as a hobby .. I've been looking at the car care kits and it seems the wolf gang and Black fire are highly rated but my biggest questions are which polisher and pads to get and how many .. The only items I have now are over the counter items you can get anywhere but I'm wanting to get into paint corrections and turn scratches into mirrors .. Thanks for any help
Click to expand...

Be warned. If you're like many of us, once you start buying you won't be able to stop :D

I started out with an inexpensive DA and a few pads along with some OTC products. Fast forward a couple of years and now I have my original DA, a Makita rotary, a soon-to-arrive Griots G15, stacks of buffing pads, and a cabinet full of products....and I'm just a weekend warrior who does my own cars and some cars for friends, family, and neighbors.

It's addicting !!!
 
Therapy's expensive! I'd rather pay Dr. Autogeek than some quack $200 an hour.
 
dlc95 said:
The Porter Cable 7424xp is probably my favorite. I have a 3401, and a Duetto, but the PC seems to work best for me.

The GG6 seems very popular due to it's price/power combination.

I also like select Buff and Shine, and Lake Country CCS pads,
Click to expand...


I agree about the PC. It was my first tool and never let me down.

I also like the new Meguiars thin discs and or these:

Lake Country ThinPro Foam Pad System New for 2016!
 
It's been a while since I posted something, but having gone the "newbie route" not so long ago, I will provide insight from the path I followed.

First, before even thinking about buffing scratches, have a solid cleaning kit. If your paint has surface contaminants, buffing will use these to swirl the paint you are trying to correct. It took me a while to learn that part. Favorite products are DP Auto Bath (now power wash) for heavier duty cleaning and Wolfgang Auto bath for lighter duty, chenille wash mitt, green drying towel and of course 2 buckets. You probably will want to clay the car before polishing, favorite products are the Pinnacle clay and DP rinseless wash and gloss diluted for clay lube duty. I will skip on wheels and interior since it is not paint related.

Now, for buffing, I went with the PC polisher and love it. Pads, Lake county CCS are very good. You will need at least yellow (tough paint or heavy duty buffing), orange (most common for medium duty work), white (fine polishing). I did buy the gray and red one for superfine polishing and for waxing but never really use them.

Polishes: it seems there are a number of good combinations (for 1 coarser polish and 1 finer one). Menzerna, Meguiars, Wolfgang, 1Z and some others. While I use 1Z polishes, I tried the Wolfgang "twins" and the Menzerna products and loved them both. The reason for the 1Z is that it seems to work better on BMW ceramic paints and the super tough paint on my wife's Passat.

You will also need something to clean the polishes. Some wash the car, some use IPA, some use a dedicated pre-wax cleaner. I am still trying to figure out what works best since it seems I can never get rid of it all.
 
Thanks guys for the responses, I'm leaning towards getting a flex or big foot polisher, I'm still learning on what pads to use .. Ill be using it primarily on a 2015 f150, black of course lol but I have a ranger for a daily driver to practice on lol .. I feel like I have a pretty good wash method down, two bucket method and clay bar when needed, I've been able to keep it pretty swirl free but like anyone else I like a swirl free finish .. I have some towels from walmart so I'm unsure of the quality so I'll pick up some high quality microfiber towels that you all recommend
 
Rockeey said:
Be warned. If you're like many of us, once you start buying you won't be able to stop :D

I started out with an inexpensive DA and a few pads along with some OTC products. Fast forward a couple of years and now I have my original DA, a Makita rotary, a soon-to-arrive Griots G15, stacks of buffing pads, and a cabinet full of products....and I'm just a weekend warrior who does my own cars and some cars for friends, family, and neighbors.

It's addicting !!!
Click to expand...

Sure as h--- is addicting. And so is the forum. My wife asks everyday "what are you looking at?" Can't stop
 
Lol I'm a perfectionist when it comes to small details .. I can see my bank account shrinking looking through all the products available lol .. This is after a detail with stuff I purchased at Walmart .. Two coats of meguiars ultimate paste wax and went over it with ultimate quick detailed
 
C.Moore said:
Thanks guys for the responses, I'm leaning towards getting a flex or big foot polisher, I'm still learning on what pads to use .. Ill be using it primarily on a 2015 f150, black of course lol but I have a ranger for a daily driver to practice on lol .. I feel like I have a pretty good wash method down, two bucket method and clay bar when needed, I've been able to keep it pretty swirl free but like anyone else I like a swirl free finish .. I have some towels from walmart so I'm unsure of the quality so I'll pick up some high quality microfiber towels that you all recommend
Click to expand...


Lemee ask ya' this... do you have grit guards in both your buckets? I actually have TWO in each bucket, turned 45°, and connected with wire ties. Completely stops sloshing around, and keeps the soap solution so clean that you can use it twice. :) After two uses, just dump it in the wheel bucket (which has a single grit guard). ;)

Wheel cleaning is a big deal. I'd suggest the large and small Daytona brushes, as well as the large and medium Wheel Woolies, and a 1" boars hair wheel brush, (the one with the plastic handle). Then get the 3 pack of Mothers brushes, and get a good Carrand tire scrubbing brush. That'll get you everything you'll need to do any wheel you''ll run across, as well as exhaust tips, wheel wells, lower valance panels, etc.

Oh... make sure and get a couple of the Carrand tire gel applicator brushes. WOW are they a better, easier, more effective way to apply tire gel than with a sponge. Speaking of tire gel, Optimum Opti Bond is awesome stuff! Lasts forever, nice satin shine, doesn't attract dust/dirt and still has a decent look even after the next wash. :) Also, Blackfire, DP, and WG tire gel's all look good too. Still like Optimum the best, but use DP or BF here and there.

As for that buffer......

Honestly... there isn't anything that F150 would need that a GG6 can't do. Get a 3" backing plate, and a 5" plate and you're covered. (Note below on how to get a 5" plate along with a "kit" that has microfiber pads as well as compound and polish.)

Hint... wink wink - nod nod... you can find a 30% off code on the GG6 at Advance Auto Parts, making it under a hundred bucks. ;) (Nick said recently that AG will honor that deal btw.) :dunno:

I'd forget about the yellow pads though, especially with black paint. You *might* need them once (on a vehicle with HARD paint) for that first correction, then you'll probably never need them again.

What I would do, ESPECIALLY with that big of a vehicle, is get AT LEAST 4 orange, 4 white, 2 blue and 2 black pads. Better yet would be 6 orange, 6 (or 8) white, then blue, black, and maybe a couple red.

Oh... and you'll only want to buy 5½" pads. Not because the GG6 can't spin them, (because it can) but because they are a good bit cheaper than the larger pads.

You of course might want a large throw machine, if so I'd seriously look at the new offerings from Griot, but you really don't want anything larger than a 15mm orbit. Plus you want to stay with the smaller pads.

Then of course there are two more that fit the 'middle', that would be the Rupes Duetto (12mm throw) and the Flex 3401 (8mm throw but gear driven). I have them both, and they are drastically different machines. The Duetto is smooth as buttah... but no as powerful as the GG6. Where the 3401 is a beast and will correct like crazy, but you'll KNOW you've been running that puppy after a few hours. It's a big, heavy, torque monster that takes two hands to run. Whereas the Duetto you can run with one hand all day. Go figure. (FWIW... you can run the GG6 one handed as well.) ;)

Compounds??? Polishes???
Do you want to use SMAT based or DAT based products?
SMAT = Meguair's
M101, M100, or Ultimate Compound for heavy cut, D300 almost as heavy cut (actually a bit more than UC probably), but can finish decent. D300 was formulated for the Mequiar's microfiber pads but works great with foam pads. It's become my favorite Megs compound these last few years. Plus... it smells like cinnamon! :D
M205, Ultimate Polish, D301 all are great polishes.


DAT = Menzerna, Wolfgang, Blackfire etc.
FG400 for heavy cut, but is amazing how well it'll finish down. (WG Uber, similar indeed.)
IP2000 for medium cut to final finishing
FF4000 for super slick, super glossy finishing

Those three would do anything you'll run across.

If you'd like to try something along with foam pads to practice your 'art'... I'd suggest the Meguiar's Microfiber Correction Kit. It has 2 cutting, and 2 finishing pads, along with a bottle of D300 and another of D301 PLUS it has a Meguiar's 5" backing plate that is designed to work with their pads. As and added 'bonus' they throw in a Meguiar's Detailing Apron so you can look snazzy while making that F150 sizzle. ;)

One thing to consider along with all the above. You'll need spray bottles, lots and lots of spray bottles. The Meguiar's bottles from AG are the best deal on a quality bottle and sprayer you'll find. You can get them already labeled or generic. Figure a dozen there should be a good start.

What to put in those bottles?????
Meguiar's Non Acid Wheel and Tire Cleaner for one!:dblthumb2:
A good APC is another one. Mix your APC in 2 different dilutions, for really dirty and general duty use.
Then you'll need the one thing that almost everyone has, and that is a spray wax/sealant/drying aide. Hard to beat Duragloss Aquawax! Get it, get it GET IT. :D
Maybe a gallon of window cleaner? Megs can help ya' there.

Shampoo... Duragloss 901 for a nice clean, slick surface, rinses clear.
Want ultimate suds... Meguiar's Hyper Wash has the thickest suds EVER.
Chemical Guys Honeydew or Mr. Pink would be somewhere in between these two. (FWIW I use all of them, and mix Megs and one of the others in the foam cannon for CRAZY good foam.) :)

That brings you do LSP's. Oh Lordy are there a bunch of choices there. Sealants, hybrids, coatings, just sell a kidney and get on with it already!!!!! :laughing:

Finally... you'll need something to wipe all this stuff off with. Towels, lots and LOTS of towels. Microfiber towels can end up costing you darned near what open heart surgery would run, so shop VERY carefully.

For interior, and dirty work. WalMart, or better yet, Costco and you're set. You can get a 36 pack of Kirkland 'gold' towels for under $15 (with tax). Just make SURE you wash them twice before using them, and remove the sewn in tags. They are cheap enough to where when they get dirty you just toss them. I'd never use them for paint work though, except in the door/trunk/hood jambs, around hinges, door locks etc.

Microfiber Tech and The Rag Company has by far the best, safest, and most affordable offerings. (There are of course the "German" companies but... be prepared to sell an organ.) If I had to have only 3 towels it'd be the Microfiber Tech 360's, 530's and Korean 500's as they'll do anything you need, including drying (with the 530's). Can't say that I actually DO make that work however. ;)

Bottom line is you'll need a couple dozen of each of your most used towels. If that is the 360 and 530 then yup... get a couple dozen of each. You can get around with less of the Korean's if you want, say if you're only using them for QD duties, but even then you'd do good to have 5~6.

Of course there are the Korean waffle weave towels Ian has, which are the best waffle weave's I've seen. One exception to the 'drying towel' would be the Cobra Guzzler (foam core) which nobody else has except Autogeek. It is by and large the most absorbent towel of it's type out there.

Just be careful with ANY drying that you don't 'wipe', but just lay the towel flat and pat (and/or rub) the back of it with an open hand. Do that with the Korean waffle weave or the Guzzler and you're set. (Or even the Dry Me a River although it's a good bit stiffer/less soft than the others.) Although there is a new "pluffle" at TRC that looks like it'd be close in softness to the Korean waffle weave from MFT.

Not that those are the ONLY decent towels, because there are plenty to choose from. The "White Whale" is crazy soft, as well as plush... but I shudder to think about getting mine dirty. :laughing: I can say that the Korean edgeless from MFT are a bit thicker, softer, heavier than the Eagle edgeless from TRC. They are both close, and the first generation of Korean 470's from MFT were nowhere NEAR what they are now (now they are more of a 513 GSM towel) but MFT still wins there. ;)

Then there are the super thick, dual plush towels like the 600, 700, all the way to 1100 and even 1400 weight towels. I can say that the bottom two, no matter where they come from tend to lint. The heavier ones are laminated type towels, two lesser towels sewn together and are not bad, but just hard to work with being so thick, and they get STUPID heavy once they get wet!!!!

The only exception in this group are the advertised "Korean" towels, like the White Whale and similar ones.

And at this stage... maybe it's time to head to the jewelry store. Figure the wife needs a little enticement to keep her happy. :laughing:
 
Rockeey said:
Be warned. If you're like many of us, once you start buying you won't be able to stop :D

I started out with an inexpensive DA and a few pads along with some OTC products. Fast forward a couple of years and now I have my original DA, a Makita rotary, a soon-to-arrive Griots G15, stacks of buffing pads, and a cabinet full of products....and I'm just a weekend warrior who does my own cars and some cars for friends, family, and neighbors.

It's addicting !!!
Click to expand...

:iagree:
Luckily I have a business that supports my Autogeek habit...
3x Rupes 21
Rupes 15
Rupes Mini
2x GG6
HF 6"
2x Flex 3401
Flex PE14-2
200+ pads
500+ MF towels
And that's just getting started... I told myself I wanted the business to profit, not looking like it so far...
 
Thanks for the detailed responses .. Theres so much to learn and so many different products it's make it intimidating that I'm going to order the wrong product .. But I'm learning :)
 
cardaddy said:
Lemee ask ya' this... do you have grit guards in both your buckets? I actually have TWO in each bucket, turned 45°, and connected with wire ties. Completely stops sloshing around, and keeps the soap solution so clean that you can use it twice. :) After two uses, just dump it in the wheel bucket (which has a single grit guard). ;)

Wheel cleaning is a big deal. I'd suggest the large and small Daytona brushes, as well as the large and medium Wheel Woolies, and a 1" boars hair wheel brush, (the one with the plastic handle). Then get the 3 pack of Mothers brushes, and get a good Carrand tire scrubbing brush. That'll get you everything you'll need to do any wheel you''ll run across, as well as exhaust tips, wheel wells, lower valance panels, etc.

Oh... make sure and get a couple of the Carrand tire gel applicator brushes. WOW are they a better, easier, more effective way to apply tire gel than with a sponge. Speaking of tire gel, Optimum Opti Bond is awesome stuff! Lasts forever, nice satin shine, doesn't attract dust/dirt and still has a decent look even after the next wash. :) Also, Blackfire, DP, and WG tire gel's all look good too. Still like Optimum the best, but use DP or BF here and there.

As for that buffer......

Honestly... there isn't anything that F150 would need that a GG6 can't do. Get a 3" backing plate, and a 5" plate and you're covered. (Note below on how to get a 5" plate along with a "kit" that has microfiber pads as well as compound and polish.)

Hint... wink wink - nod nod... you can find a 30% off code on the GG6 at Advance Auto Parts, making it under a hundred bucks. ;) (Nick said recently that AG will honor that deal btw.) :dunno:

I'd forget about the yellow pads though, especially with black paint. You *might* need them once (on a vehicle with HARD paint) for that first correction, then you'll probably never need them again.

What I would do, ESPECIALLY with that big of a vehicle, is get AT LEAST 4 orange, 4 white, 2 blue and 2 black pads. Better yet would be 6 orange, 6 (or 8) white, then blue, black, and maybe a couple red.

Oh... and you'll only want to buy 5½" pads. Not because the GG6 can't spin them, (because it can) but because they are a good bit cheaper than the larger pads.

You of course might want a large throw machine, if so I'd seriously look at the new offerings from Griot, but you really don't want anything larger than a 15mm orbit. Plus you want to stay with the smaller pads.

Then of course there are two more that fit the 'middle', that would be the Rupes Duetto (12mm throw) and the Flex 3401 (8mm throw but gear driven). I have them both, and they are drastically different machines. The Duetto is smooth as buttah... but no as powerful as the GG6. Where the 3401 is a beast and will correct like crazy, but you'll KNOW you've been running that puppy after a few hours. It's a big, heavy, torque monster that takes two hands to run. Whereas the Duetto you can run with one hand all day. Go figure. (FWIW... you can run the GG6 one handed as well.) ;)

Compounds??? Polishes???
Do you want to use SMAT based or DAT based products?
SMAT = Meguair's
M101, M100, or Ultimate Compound for heavy cut, D300 almost as heavy cut (actually a bit more than UC probably), but can finish decent. D300 was formulated for the Mequiar's microfiber pads but works great with foam pads. It's become my favorite Megs compound these last few years. Plus... it smells like cinnamon! :D
M205, Ultimate Polish, D301 all are great polishes.


DAT = Menzerna, Wolfgang, Blackfire etc.
FG400 for heavy cut, but is amazing how well it'll finish down. (WG Uber, similar indeed.)
IP2000 for medium cut to final finishing
FF4000 for super slick, super glossy finishing

Those three would do anything you'll run across.

If you'd like to try something along with foam pads to practice your 'art'... I'd suggest the Meguiar's Microfiber Correction Kit. It has 2 cutting, and 2 finishing pads, along with a bottle of D300 and another of D301 PLUS it has a Meguiar's 5" backing plate that is designed to work with their pads. As and added 'bonus' they throw in a Meguiar's Detailing Apron so you can look snazzy while making that F150 sizzle. ;)

One thing to consider along with all the above. You'll need spray bottles, lots and lots of spray bottles. The Meguiar's bottles from AG are the best deal on a quality bottle and sprayer you'll find. You can get them already labeled or generic. Figure a dozen there should be a good start.

What to put in those bottles?????
Meguiar's Non Acid Wheel and Tire Cleaner for one!:dblthumb2:
A good APC is another one. Mix your APC in 2 different dilutions, for really dirty and general duty use.
Then you'll need the one thing that almost everyone has, and that is a spray wax/sealant/drying aide. Hard to beat Duragloss Aquawax! Get it, get it GET IT. :D
Maybe a gallon of window cleaner? Megs can help ya' there.

Shampoo... Duragloss 901 for a nice clean, slick surface, rinses clear.
Want ultimate suds... Meguiar's Hyper Wash has the thickest suds EVER.
Chemical Guys Honeydew or Mr. Pink would be somewhere in between these two. (FWIW I use all of them, and mix Megs and one of the others in the foam cannon for CRAZY good foam.) :)

That brings you do LSP's. Oh Lordy are there a bunch of choices there. Sealants, hybrids, coatings, just sell a kidney and get on with it already!!!!! :laughing:

Finally... you'll need something to wipe all this stuff off with. Towels, lots and LOTS of towels. Microfiber towels can end up costing you darned near what open heart surgery would run, so shop VERY carefully.

For interior, and dirty work. WalMart, or better yet, Costco and you're set. You can get a 36 pack of Kirkland 'gold' towels for under $15 (with tax). Just make SURE you wash them twice before using them, and remove the sewn in tags. They are cheap enough to where when they get dirty you just toss them. I'd never use them for paint work though, except in the door/trunk/hood jambs, around hinges, door locks etc.

Microfiber Tech and The Rag Company has by far the best, safest, and most affordable offerings. (There are of course the "German" companies but... be prepared to sell an organ.) If I had to have only 3 towels it'd be the Microfiber Tech 360's, 530's and Korean 500's as they'll do anything you need, including drying (with the 530's). Can't say that I actually DO make that work however. ;)

Bottom line is you'll need a couple dozen of each of your most used towels. If that is the 360 and 530 then yup... get a couple dozen of each. You can get around with less of the Korean's if you want, say if you're only using them for QD duties, but even then you'd do good to have 5~6.

Of course there are the Korean waffle weave towels Ian has, which are the best waffle weave's I've seen. One exception to the 'drying towel' would be the Cobra Guzzler (foam core) which nobody else has except Autogeek. It is by and large the most absorbent towel of it's type out there.

Just be careful with ANY drying that you don't 'wipe', but just lay the towel flat and pat (and/or rub) the back of it with an open hand. Do that with the Korean waffle weave or the Guzzler and you're set. (Or even the Dry Me a River although it's a good bit stiffer/less soft than the others.) Although there is a new "pluffle" at TRC that looks like it'd be close in softness to the Korean waffle weave from MFT.

Not that those are the ONLY decent towels, because there are plenty to choose from. The "White Whale" is crazy soft, as well as plush... but I shudder to think about getting mine dirty. :laughing: I can say that the Korean edgeless from MFT are a bit thicker, softer, heavier than the Eagle edgeless from TRC. They are both close, and the first generation of Korean 470's from MFT were nowhere NEAR what they are now (now they are more of a 513 GSM towel) but MFT still wins there. ;)

Then there are the super thick, dual plush towels like the 600, 700, all the way to 1100 and even 1400 weight towels. I can say that the bottom two, no matter where they come from tend to lint. The heavier ones are laminated type towels, two lesser towels sewn together and are not bad, but just hard to work with being so thick, and they get STUPID heavy once they get wet!!!!

The only exception in this group are the advertised "Korean" towels, like the White Whale and similar ones.

And at this stage... maybe it's time to head to the jewelry store. Figure the wife needs a little enticement to keep her happy. :laughing:
Click to expand...

Always enjoy reading your responses Tony. This is no exception. Packed full of valuable information. Well done good sir. :goodpost:

Thanks for taking the time to do so. :props:
 
While I believe that there is nothing wrong with a long stroke machine as a 1st polisher (possibly the 3401 also never used one so can't comment on it) for doing the F150 you will want something with a small pad like a 3". I did my brothers a couple months ago and even ho it is big there are a lot of areas where you really can't get at with a large pad. As difficult as it can be to polish, when you get the paint the way you like it I would coat it with WG uber since it is so user friendly and leaves a almost glass like finish.

Here is a pic of my bothers front and look at the areas with the thought of polishing and what you would need as far as size pad to get to. Same goes for the tailgate. For me I have my long stroke and a 3.5" on my GG6 (I really need to get a 3"). For getting in the small areas I will probably get the The BigFoot Nano this spring. It will make a good companion to me long stroke.

On this truck all I did was a final polish and a couple coats of CG's Jetseal which for me has lasted for about a year. I didn't coat it because it is just a 2 year lease.

Truck%206-1.jpg
 
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