Man Down

I hear you! I have 2, plus the new muscle stimulator.

The wife had me walk/hobble down to the creek today to see how bad it was after the last two ice storms. We lost some SERIOUSLY BIG trees!

Her idea was to take the chainsaw amd cut up firewood. Then get the boys, son and his buddy, and a son-in-law (that never showed up!) to bring the wood back up the hill to the house.

Well I ended up, (INCREDIBLY stupidly I might add) with the chainsaw in my hands. Y'all can imagine what happened next..... :rolleyes:
EVERYTHING I've tried to fix these last few weeks is down the drain. At some point I went face down, CarBoy picking me up in a bear hug. I thought we were going to have to get a Medivac chopper to get me back to the house. :( I didn't know (till these last couple of months) that it was humanly possible to hurt so bad and still be alive. And after today we got a refresher course!!!!!!

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I hate to hear that.

It's hard to sit back sometimes and let things go. It's in our nature to jump in and do things that need to be done. But, at this point in your life, you are going to have to pick an chose your battles..need to take care if yourself...


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That is great to know! If you go back to one of my prior reply, I suggested reading up on piriformis syndrome. I guess this last visit confirms some things. If you need to have a chat about it and the rehabilitation you could or should do, send me a PM. I'll give you my cell and we can chat :xyxthumbs: (it's a lot easier than typing all that stuff)

It is a sad reality that your condition is one that is seen very commonly and the treatment plan of care also seem to vary greatly, especially if you take into consideration the professional vs. non-professional advises. My offer to guide professionally does still hold true, so feel free to inbox, but I feel that at this time I should make a thread summary to help other afflicted from similar issues, and to demystify a couple of the "this worked for me".

Before doing that, I should give you my credentials, right? Most of you know me for my detailing work, but very little of you know that I am a physical therapist by training. I've owned a thriving private out patient clinic for over 18 years and specialize in orthopedic conditions. The alphabet soup of the credentials after my name would mean little to you guys but the fact that I hold a post-professional doctorate in orthopedic manual physical therapy may. Let's put it this way, I have more letters in my credentials than my first and last name combined. So now that we have the formalities out of the way, what is up with this "sciatica" problem. First off the diagnosis is a generalized latin based term describing an event distributed through the sciatic nerve (somewhere from the lumbar and sacral plexus to the peripheral nerve). As a single entity, the diagnosis is not a diagnosis because it does not describe the root cause. Is it disc, foraminal, muscular, organic etc.. ?? Is it mechanical or structural?? As such, the treatments tossed around are nothing more than a shot in the dark (hence the reason why I offered to have a personal chat). Identifying the root cause prevents just letting nature take it course.

As far as treatments offered, they can be subdivided in 2 categories 1) Active 2) Passive. Active treatments are treatments that you actively participate in to assist in improving the tissue function (mechanical and metabolic function). The 3 primary Active treatments are 1) Limiting your exposure to the injurious factors 2) Nutrition and hydration 3) Exercises. Comparatively, passive treatments are any interventions that you are not participating in. If you are just sitting or laying there and something is happening to you, then it is a passive treatment. This includes but is not limited to medication (oral, topical or injectable), surgery, chiropractic care, massage therapy, accupuncture, therapeutic modalities (like heat, ice, TENS, Interferential currents, russian galvanic stimulation, iontophoresis, phonophoresis, ultrasound therapy, cold laser etc....). To summarize passive treatments for you guys, they are palliative treatments.... basically put, they are "Feel Good" therapies. Do passive treatments cure the root cause of the condition? Absolutely not, but may give you a physical or mental reprieve which may have been well needed (hence the reason we use them clinically).

So why are you in pain? The reason is simple.... the tissues in questions did not have the strength, endurance, capacity or tolerance for what ever event or combination of events that it was presented with. Most of those sciatica diagnosis come associated with a chronic overuse or chronic repetitive dysfunctions. We do have an uncanny ability to abuse our body and are surprised when they break down. Pain is the escalating way our body is using to communicate the event. It does to a certain extent help guide the recovery effort but does little to identify the root cause of the chronic abuse. The louder the pain the more your body will react to prevent the events (indiscriminately if they are necessities or not). It starts with compensatory mechanics and leads into neurogenic muscle guarding and further escalate into muscle spasms (due to a nutritional deficiency in the tissue, from overuse). Nutritional spams compared to neurogenic muscle guarding are quite different from one another and the intervention to one does not imply the same treatment for the other, hence the reason I did not give a "cook book" answer of exercises to do. All the suggested exercises are appropriate if done with the right intensity, duration, frequency etc... which is to be properly matched to the stage of recovery and tissue response.

So are you dogging chiros or masseuses or acupuncturists? Nope but you have to understand that if a muscle is in a weakened state that a passive treatment would do little to increase its strength, endurance, conditioning, coordination etc.. The previously mentioned are very effective in providing symptom modifications (same as MDs with their slew of medication) but does very little to build the tissues in question. If they did, then I would skip the gym and my training to go see my massage therapist.

Do therapeutic modalities and topical ointment work? Yes! To provide symptom modifications. None of that stuff is curative. Don't get me wrong, if your body was on the verge of recovery and you applied biofreeze (which allowed better rest of the affected muscle), and that was enough to press the reset button then it may feel that it was the cure but in essence your body was reset below threshold. As soon as you kick the hornet's nest again you will have a recurrence and usually the symptoms get progressively more often and last longer, until the point where the body just say "screw it", then comes constant pain. A lot of people rush to surgery but according to all the research (I am an evidence based clinician) surgery is no better than conservative management (unless structural neural impingement exists)

Am I going to be in pain for 6-9 months? The answer is ...???.... It all depends on what you do, when you do it etc... From a theoretical base, the tissues (muscle, tendons, ligaments, disc etc..) in absence of the any intervention should return to "normal" within 1 year (based on collagenous healing), PROVIDED you are not constantly flaring it up. If you keep flaring it, it may never heal (think festering wound). In the presence of an "attempt" at intervention you are looking at 6-9 months, and according to research spinal based disorder should return to premorbid state in 6-9 weeks with the proper intervention (combination of active and passive).

What about that inversion table? the biofreeze? the TENS unit? the Saunders self traction unit? ..... and the "as seen on TV"? In one word, they are passive, passive, passive and passive treatments which are good for symptom modification. Will they help? Yep, for a short period of time (think putting a glaze on a swirled out car). Does it fix the problems? Nope!

If you look at the world of detailing we use the same principles as what I described previously. True treatments of the condition falls under the following 3 ACTIVE treatments

1) Limiting the exposure (we advocate parking a car away from exposure to the elements)
2) Nutrition and hydration (We advocate plenty of water, high lubricity pH neutral soaps, regular decontamination etc.. lots of expensive products used in a balance way on a maintenance regiment..... there is a lot of to say about the chemistry and balance of that chemistry)
3) Exercises (not activities, not hobbies, not work etc... EXERCISES). You cannot maintain or build a tissue without proper work invested, and cannot maintain a car without proper methodical regular car care.

There are 4 commandments in the world of rehabilitation. They are commandments and not suggestions

1) Do not create more pain (or make the condition worst). You are more than welcomed to create soreness but not pain (the lecture on difference between soreness and pain would need a thread of its own)
2) Do your exercise often enough to make a difference. Please don't make the mistake of exercising on a pre-conceived schedule (unless you have accumulated a knowledge base similar to mine). Go with what your body is telling you (not your brain)
3) Modify. We do test spots starting from least aggressive to more aggressive, well this is the same.... but MAKE SURE to progress the program to retrain the tissues for functional relevance
4) Do the right things at the right time for the right reasons....

I could go on and on and on but let's admit that this is dry as dust, and boring as all get up.... and this post is way too long already!

For all of you looking for a cookie cutter answer, unfortunately there is none. Each treatment is individualized, the same as we individualize our "game plan" on each cars, regardless if it is the 200th BMW you polish!

Again, my offer to have a voice chat is still out there :)
 
Claude.... what can I say sir.....:thankyousign:

Thank you for taking the time to "bore" us with all the details.
I think it's not too big of a stretch to say that we are often guilty of not getting enough of those 'boring details' from our care providers.

I for one know that I get injections almost each and every month, yet what is IN those injections I tend not to ask. Oh there are things like magnesium, corticosteroids, and of course direct injecting robaxin into a trouble area under the umbrella of "trigger point injections". Though I fear that if we did end up asking the questions we either might not want to know the answers, or maybe (as you already know) might just not understand those answers. :dunno:

I know in the coming weeks however I'll be asking questions, taking notes, recording conversations even (if that's what it takes). Trying to treat these latest problems as I've been doing, through meds, ice/heat/TENS/neurostim/injections/rest... and on and on and on have AT BEST made me not want to dive off a bridge every hour on the hour. :rolleyes: So it seems I'm in for a round of interviews with what are recommended as some of the top surgeons in Atlanta, one at St. Josephs, the other at Emory Spine Center. All in hopes that SOMEBODY can come up with a solution, (other than just keep waiting, it'll eventually get better). Because I can tell you, it is NOT getting better.
(Especially after I got behind a chainsaw for all of 5 minutes!) :cry::surrender::cry:
Been in bed all day, ALL DAY...and will be all week I fear. :rolleyes:
 
Flash, while I started with sciatica that eventually went away and turned into chronic lower back pain (disk bulging at L4/L5 and L5/S1). Here's what I can offer from my experience.

Get off the controlled substance meds (oxicodone, hydrocodone or similar) as soon as you can. I stayed on these for two years and I could not tell where my pain was exactly until I got off these meds. I had false pain on these drugs (pain showing up in other places that went away after getting off these meds).

Get into a stretching routine multiple times daily to stretch your nerve. Do hamstring stretches with bending your foot or toes toward your head to really stretch that nerve. Watch that video and do those stretches where he puts his foot on his opposite thigh and pulls up on his knee towards his chest, and pushes down on the knee away from his chest.

Any stretch that burns or really starts hurting the nerve or muscle while doing a stretch is good. Do not over do it though. Work a little pain at a time and keep trying to increase the stretch but DO NOT over do it or you will be back to square one.

Get lots of rest and stretch that nerve and muscle. Keep stretching several times a day. Do not let the meds ease your pain if you can help it. Meds made my recovery take over two years until I realized meds were not doing any good to help me recover.

Good luck and best wishes.
 
Flash, while I started with sciatica that eventually went away and turned into chronic lower back pain (disk bulging at L4/L5 and L5/S1). Here's what I can offer from my experience.

Get off the controlled substance meds (oxicodone, hydrocodone or similar) as soon as you can. I stayed on these for two years and I could not tell where my pain was exactly until I got off these meds. I had false pain on these drugs (pain showing up in other places that went away after getting off these meds).

Good luck and best wishes.

This is really good advice. While I understand the pain can be excruciating and sometimes there is no other way to treat it, long term exogenous opiates are just no good.

These drugs can actually sensitize you to pain over long periods of time , making the only way to control it at that point higher and higher doses. It's not tolerance per se, but your bodies' scaling back of it's own production of opiate like substances.

More than just messing with your pain - it can mess with your mind. Mood swings, anxiety, and depression are all possible. How will your Dr treat that? By adding MORE drugs, of course. It also messes with your appetite, as most people on these meds are chronically constipated. Some people gain a ton of weight and get bloated, and some people loose weight because they stop eating normally.

I've seen so many people get screwed up on narcs over the years. Many very close to home. In case some reading this doesn't know, I'm a pharmacist - so I deal with these issues quite frequently.

I haven't been following this thread, last I read Flash was doing a little better and not taking any of these meds. I'm hoping he is still well.
 
Flash, while I started with sciatica that eventually went away and turned into chronic lower back pain (disk bulging at L4/L5 and L5/S1). Here's what I can offer from my experience.

Get off the controlled substance meds (oxicodone, hydrocodone or similar) as soon as you can. I stayed on these for two years and I could not tell where my pain was exactly until I got off these meds. I had false pain on these drugs (pain showing up in other places that went away after getting off these meds).

Get into a stretching routine multiple times daily to stretch your nerve. Do hamstring stretches with bending your foot or toes toward your head to really stretch that nerve. Watch that video and do those stretches where he puts his foot on his opposite thigh and pulls up on his knee towards his chest, and pushes down on the knee away from his chest.

Any stretch that burns or really starts hurting the nerve or muscle while doing a stretch is good. Do not over do it though. Work a little pain at a time and keep trying to increase the stretch but DO NOT over do it or you will be back to square one.

Get lots of rest and stretch that nerve and muscle. Keep stretching several times a day. Do not let the meds ease your pain if you can help it. Meds made my recovery take over two years until I realized meds were not doing any good to help me recover.

Good luck and best wishes.

Thanks for the tips! I've pretty much been following this routine the past few days. I never even started with the pain meds

@Tony. You need to stop over doing yourself bro
 
Update:

I am virtually pain free now. I still have a little soreness, but all-n-all I feel great again!

Im the MAN

Thank You Jesus for allowing my body to heal and Thank You to everyone that offered advice & support

:props:
 
Anyone here have any experience with Sciatic Nerve

Yes man, both sides, I just had surgery three weeks ago and one last October.
I feel for you my friend:(

Get yourself checked out, don't do as I did and wait.
 
Thanks for the tips! I've pretty much been following this routine the past few days. I never even started with the pain meds

@Tony. You need to stop over doing yourself bro

Ahhh... but didn't seem like over doing it at the time.
:dunno:
(Was afraid CarMomma was going to chop her leg off! )





Update:

I am virtually pain free now. I still have a little soreness, but all-n-all I feel great again!

Im the MAN

Thank You Jesus for allowing my body to heal and Thank You to everyone that offered advice & support

:props:

GREAT NEWS Flash! :)

OTOH I'm going in for 4 or so hours surgery Thursday morning. (Zero dark thirty. ) :eek:



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GREAT NEWS Flash! :)

OTOH I'm going in for 4 or so hours surgery Thursday morning. (Zero dark thirty. ) :eek:



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Thank You!

This may or may not reappear at some point down the line. All I know is that I am VERY grateful that I'm no longer in pain (as of now). The 1st 80 hours was a living nightmare. I slept maybe 1 hour during that time and was getting very delusional

I've also been able to drop 9lbs w/out altering my diet too much (and w/out being able to excercise). Down to 192 from 201 . My intentions are to loose another 12-17 now that I am back to normal

You are in my prayers Tony. I now know what back pain is all about. As someone else said. It can make you loose focus on everyday life

I do miss my Hot Fries

:(
 
Well I sure hope it doesn't reappear brother.
That is the one thing that I'm afraid of with this surgery Thursday. Doing the whole discectomy thing... THAT leaves you open to the disc "blowing out" (much easier) down the road.


Been trying to chicken out this last week actually. :rolleyes: My daughter got a new job (as a Paralegal Intern) :D last week.... and bought a new KIA Sportage. New color for 2014 "Black Cherry". Which was LOADED with the dreaded DISO! :eek: She told them not to wash it, but it was too late. There was one RIDS on the hood a good 16" long!!!!!!!!! (Likely from a brush.)

Anyhow..... she came down Sunday, although my son-in-law conveniently had to work (on Easter Sunday) and we attacked it. Didn't take long for me to realize that "chickening out" WAS NOT in the cards! :rolleyes: Took the better part of 12 hours, 2.5 people working on it. (Me being the .5 most of the time.) :( The whole thing got D300 (MF pad) then Menz SI-2000 (LC Orange pad).. :D

Did the wheels & glass with PBL coatings. (She took them all off herself. ) The paint with the new DG Enviroshield. It looks AWESOME!

Now I'm so sore that Thursday may actually feel good, all things considered. ;)

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