Cincy Colorado
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- May 25, 2011
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Has any one had any experience with Meguiars Paint Reconditioning Cream D151. I see a lot of people talk about it. Was looking for a good one step solution to save time. Any thoughts? 
Meguiars Paint Reconditioning Cream D151
- Thread starter Cincy Colorado
- Start date
WRAPT C5Z06
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- Nov 12, 2009
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Does Menz Power Finish have more cut than D151?
Dr Oldz
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- Aug 31, 2010
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Thats a good question....With out comparing them side by side, I'd say they are pretty close with PF MAYBE having a bit more.
Kevin Brown
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- Apr 11, 2009
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This posts was taken from another forum. A long discussion about D151 and its potential cutting power. The thread is called Meg's D151. It can be found by searching meg's d151 110091. From that thread (post #54, 55, :
Glad to give an opinion... thanks for contacting me weekendwarrior.
A quick call to Jason Rose of Meguiar's verified some thoughts I had about PRC. It was primarily designed to remove light to moderate defects with a rotary polisher. It had to leave the surface in very good condition while providing protection. It had to have a long application cycle but not sling, stick to the surface, or create lots of dust. It had to be easy to wipe away and not leave a white haze on textured plastics. If the shop using the product wanted to do a one-step application, it had to leave the paint looking pretty good once the protection went away. Finally, if a shop wanted to do a follow-up application with PRC, it had to further polish the surface, leaving no micro marring. A lot to consider, but overall, it seems that D151 comes pretty close to hitting the mark.
Now, just because Jason and the R&D team tailored this product for a specific type of detailing doesn't mean we shouldn't expect even more out of PRC, right?
I have some experience using D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream (PRC) but it's not my 'go-to' liquid. Therefore, I don't have the depth of knowledge that comes from using a product on a regular basis. However- I've used it a few times and I did test PRC prior to its release. I've found that increased downforce delivers impressive results. For defect removal I tend to use lower rpm and increased downforce when polishing with a rotary. The exception to this rule is when I'm using a compound to cut paint immediately after wet-sanding. To aid in leveling the paint, I run the rotary at around 1,800 prm and then back it down to 1,000-1,200 rpm to finish. Of course settings vary from car to car, but this is the norm for me.
When removing defects with the random-orbital, I use high OPM and a LOT of downforce. For final polishing, I drop the speed and continue to use a LOT of downforce (not as much as the defect-removal step, but quite a bit). I know that this is not the way things are normally done, but the most recent Meguiar's products to hit the market are using very different technologies (as compared to the older traditional style compounds and polishes). In the case of Meguiar's products, this technique has worked well for me with M86, M105, and D151.
I specifically asked about use of this product with Lake Country's Foamed Wool Pad (FWP). As I've only used the FWP a very limited amount, I cannot claim to know all of its idiosyncrasies. So- I just used it, and it seems to be a very capable pad.
I did a quick but thorough test on the fender of my 1994 Mazda pickup (original paint). I hardly ever polish or wax the thing- I just drive the wheels off it and wash it every couple weeks. Many times, I just hit it with de-ionized water and wipe it with a cotton towel (if there's time).
I took some pics- I know they're not the best, and the lighting is not ideal. The main thing is- I was able to easily remove moderate defects and leave the paint looking pretty good. Here we go:
Not great shots, but the fender is covered with light defects, and a few moderate scratches. I scuffed each side with Abralon 2000 and water.
Left side, shows paint as-is and the Abralon scuffing.
Right side, shows paint as-is and the Abralon scuffing.
Rotary, foamed wool, D151 PRC.
Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in by hand.
Have to add more... still some dry areas.
I think I use a bit more product to prime the pad than most guys. It's like priming a lawnmower that's run out of gas- pour some gas in the throat of the carb, pull the string until it starts. Whatever gas it doesn't use, it spits out the exhaust! Same thing with a pad prime- what the pad doesn't use for priming will sling off the pad... I'm just kidding a bit here, but there was actually very little sling (if any).
I think this is one area that is overlooked as not so important. Well, it is very important, and really makes a difference to overall performance.
Apply a bead and buff. Left side: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pad / 1,800 rpm / application time- 62 seconds.
Wipe clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution)
Close-up shots.
Meguiar's W5000 Double-Sided Wool Cutting Pad. It's listed as an 8-inch pad, but edge-to-edge it's more like 10 inches. I guessed that I'd be using the pad effectively to the 8-inch diameter point.
Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pad. Looks like it's almost 8 inches (Lake Country's site shows a 7 or 7-1/2 inch pad. I guessed that I'd be using the pad effectively to the 6-inch diameter point.
Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in by hand.
Have to add more... still some dry areas.
A proper prime-job. This is a much bigger pad than the PFW pad.
Glad to give an opinion... thanks for contacting me weekendwarrior.
A quick call to Jason Rose of Meguiar's verified some thoughts I had about PRC. It was primarily designed to remove light to moderate defects with a rotary polisher. It had to leave the surface in very good condition while providing protection. It had to have a long application cycle but not sling, stick to the surface, or create lots of dust. It had to be easy to wipe away and not leave a white haze on textured plastics. If the shop using the product wanted to do a one-step application, it had to leave the paint looking pretty good once the protection went away. Finally, if a shop wanted to do a follow-up application with PRC, it had to further polish the surface, leaving no micro marring. A lot to consider, but overall, it seems that D151 comes pretty close to hitting the mark.
Now, just because Jason and the R&D team tailored this product for a specific type of detailing doesn't mean we shouldn't expect even more out of PRC, right?
I have some experience using D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream (PRC) but it's not my 'go-to' liquid. Therefore, I don't have the depth of knowledge that comes from using a product on a regular basis. However- I've used it a few times and I did test PRC prior to its release. I've found that increased downforce delivers impressive results. For defect removal I tend to use lower rpm and increased downforce when polishing with a rotary. The exception to this rule is when I'm using a compound to cut paint immediately after wet-sanding. To aid in leveling the paint, I run the rotary at around 1,800 prm and then back it down to 1,000-1,200 rpm to finish. Of course settings vary from car to car, but this is the norm for me.
When removing defects with the random-orbital, I use high OPM and a LOT of downforce. For final polishing, I drop the speed and continue to use a LOT of downforce (not as much as the defect-removal step, but quite a bit). I know that this is not the way things are normally done, but the most recent Meguiar's products to hit the market are using very different technologies (as compared to the older traditional style compounds and polishes). In the case of Meguiar's products, this technique has worked well for me with M86, M105, and D151.
I specifically asked about use of this product with Lake Country's Foamed Wool Pad (FWP). As I've only used the FWP a very limited amount, I cannot claim to know all of its idiosyncrasies. So- I just used it, and it seems to be a very capable pad.
I did a quick but thorough test on the fender of my 1994 Mazda pickup (original paint). I hardly ever polish or wax the thing- I just drive the wheels off it and wash it every couple weeks. Many times, I just hit it with de-ionized water and wipe it with a cotton towel (if there's time).
I took some pics- I know they're not the best, and the lighting is not ideal. The main thing is- I was able to easily remove moderate defects and leave the paint looking pretty good. Here we go:
Not great shots, but the fender is covered with light defects, and a few moderate scratches. I scuffed each side with Abralon 2000 and water.
Left side, shows paint as-is and the Abralon scuffing.
Right side, shows paint as-is and the Abralon scuffing.
Rotary, foamed wool, D151 PRC.
Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in by hand.
Have to add more... still some dry areas.
I think I use a bit more product to prime the pad than most guys. It's like priming a lawnmower that's run out of gas- pour some gas in the throat of the carb, pull the string until it starts. Whatever gas it doesn't use, it spits out the exhaust! Same thing with a pad prime- what the pad doesn't use for priming will sling off the pad... I'm just kidding a bit here, but there was actually very little sling (if any).
I think this is one area that is overlooked as not so important. Well, it is very important, and really makes a difference to overall performance.
Apply a bead and buff. Left side: Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pad / 1,800 rpm / application time- 62 seconds.
Wipe clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution)
Close-up shots.
Meguiar's W5000 Double-Sided Wool Cutting Pad. It's listed as an 8-inch pad, but edge-to-edge it's more like 10 inches. I guessed that I'd be using the pad effectively to the 8-inch diameter point.
Lake Country Purple Foamed Wool Pad. Looks like it's almost 8 inches (Lake Country's site shows a 7 or 7-1/2 inch pad. I guessed that I'd be using the pad effectively to the 6-inch diameter point.
Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in by hand.
Have to add more... still some dry areas.
A proper prime-job. This is a much bigger pad than the PFW pad.
Kevin Brown
New member
- Apr 11, 2009
- 176
- 0
At this point I wanted to adjusted my polishing speed. To be fair, I figured that I should drop my speed when using the larger diameter W5000 pad. This was to adjust the velocity of the pad closer to the velocity of the PFW pad.
I used the PFW pad at 1,800 rpm. Usable area was estimated to be 6 inches. Using this formula:
RPM * C = V
where
RPM = Revolutions per minute
C = circumference <- Notice this is 2*π*r
V = velocity
I came up with: 1,800 (rpm) x 18.84 (6 x 3.14) (6" diameter times pi) = 33,912.
So, using the same formula, and a problem of: X(unknown rpm) x 25.12 (8 x 3.14) (8" diameter times pi) = 33,912 (same as the total of the PFW pad). Then, 33,912 / 25.12 = 1,350 rpm. My buffer had a speed-setting of 1,400 rpm available, so I used it. The velocity wasn't exactly the same, but close enough considering I was only guessing the diameter of the pad actually being used.
Forgot to show the bead of product applied, but it was a little more than the PFW side because the area being polished was a bit larger (needed the space for the larger pad).
Wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution). Sun shot of the PFW side. Noticeable swirl, but not quite as bad as it looks in the pics... Some of the 'swirl' is light refraction.
Sun shot of the W5000 side, stripped 3x with glass cleaner. Noticeable swirl, and it's obvious that the swirling is worse on this side.
Shot of the left, masked, and right. Swirls are noticeable, but pretty fine.
Time to fire up the random-orbital. I'm going to use a Meguiar's W8207 SoftBuff 2.0 Foam Polishing Pad.
Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in with your hands.
More PRC to polish with.
I polished the entire area (working time approximately 1 minute). Residue shot.
Wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution).
I felt that I could get a better polishing result. So, I used a specially-sized Lake Country pad that my friend ZoranC had built for his personal use. ZoranC readily admits that the foam and sizing is nothing new, but not all levels of aggressiveness were available in this diameter and thickness. So, he ordered them up! He's actually got six foam variations. I like them (so far I've only used three of the six). I think he had to order more than he can actually use, so maybe he would sell some if the demand was there.
I primed the pad, and worked the entire area again. Working time was approximately one minute.
Picture shows a stripped surface, wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution).
Now, I know that I've basically done a three-step polishing job. But!- I could really bear down on this pad, comfortably. Looking back on it, I should have heeded my own advice and PUSHED a lot harder when using the W8207 pad. The main point of the final application was to show how well the PRC performed. Impressive defect removal and a pretty darn good finish. I used a variety of machines and pads- You can choose how you wish to apply PRC. The best advice I can give is super-prime the pad, and increase downward pressure when polishing. Hope this helps.
I used the PFW pad at 1,800 rpm. Usable area was estimated to be 6 inches. Using this formula:
RPM * C = V
where
RPM = Revolutions per minute
C = circumference <- Notice this is 2*π*r
V = velocity
I came up with: 1,800 (rpm) x 18.84 (6 x 3.14) (6" diameter times pi) = 33,912.
So, using the same formula, and a problem of: X(unknown rpm) x 25.12 (8 x 3.14) (8" diameter times pi) = 33,912 (same as the total of the PFW pad). Then, 33,912 / 25.12 = 1,350 rpm. My buffer had a speed-setting of 1,400 rpm available, so I used it. The velocity wasn't exactly the same, but close enough considering I was only guessing the diameter of the pad actually being used.
Forgot to show the bead of product applied, but it was a little more than the PFW side because the area being polished was a bit larger (needed the space for the larger pad).
Wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution). Sun shot of the PFW side. Noticeable swirl, but not quite as bad as it looks in the pics... Some of the 'swirl' is light refraction.
Sun shot of the W5000 side, stripped 3x with glass cleaner. Noticeable swirl, and it's obvious that the swirling is worse on this side.
Shot of the left, masked, and right. Swirls are noticeable, but pretty fine.
Time to fire up the random-orbital. I'm going to use a Meguiar's W8207 SoftBuff 2.0 Foam Polishing Pad.
Prime the pad. Rub the PRC in with your hands.
More PRC to polish with.
I polished the entire area (working time approximately 1 minute). Residue shot.
Wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution).
I felt that I could get a better polishing result. So, I used a specially-sized Lake Country pad that my friend ZoranC had built for his personal use. ZoranC readily admits that the foam and sizing is nothing new, but not all levels of aggressiveness were available in this diameter and thickness. So, he ordered them up! He's actually got six foam variations. I like them (so far I've only used three of the six). I think he had to order more than he can actually use, so maybe he would sell some if the demand was there.
I primed the pad, and worked the entire area again. Working time was approximately one minute.
Picture shows a stripped surface, wiped clean, stripped 3x with Meguiar's Detailer Glass Cleaner (5:1 dilution).
Now, I know that I've basically done a three-step polishing job. But!- I could really bear down on this pad, comfortably. Looking back on it, I should have heeded my own advice and PUSHED a lot harder when using the W8207 pad. The main point of the final application was to show how well the PRC performed. Impressive defect removal and a pretty darn good finish. I used a variety of machines and pads- You can choose how you wish to apply PRC. The best advice I can give is super-prime the pad, and increase downward pressure when polishing. Hope this helps.
Kevin Brown
New member
- Apr 11, 2009
- 176
- 0
More on the subject:
Do you mind if I chime in?
I don't know everyone's polishing methods (downward pressure, buffer speed, diameter pad, etc), so bear with me if you've already tried this method. For both random-orbital and rotary application, it's best to switch to a fresh pad for your final passes on a given area. Even of you use a similar pad, the outcome will be better. The reason for this is two-fold: First, it minimizes the chance that the old & crunchy oxidized paint stuck to the pad isn't installing defects. Secondly, it reduces the amount of product left on the pad. In my experience, the second reason is key to making D151 finish out nicely on any type of paint (hard or soft).
Now, if you don't want to do this because you think it kind of defeats the reason for using a one-step (it takes time to switch back & forth between pads), you should absolutely minimize the amount of product attached to the pad, and cut way back on the product you're using when adding product to final-polish the surface. A good way to do clean the pad is listed in post 65 of this thread. Even though it was in reference to removing excess moisture to avoid saturation problems, it'll do the trick. Here it is:
To remedy build-up of product and saturation of the pad, you should frequently clean it. A very simple way to do remove excess liquid is to attach the pad to a random-orbital, and push the pad's face against a microfiber towel (set the towel on a flat surface, like a table), Run the machine for 5-10 seconds, or until most of the moisture is removed. This process will remove a majority of the saturation.
For final finishing with a rotary and a foam finishing pad, drop the speed to a very slow setting (Makita's 9227 goes down to 600 rpm, Metabo's 12-175 runs at 700, while most others spin at 1,000 rpm). I'm guessing most guys are using a pad smaller than an 8-inch (likely 5.5-6.5 inches?), so the velocity of the pad should be pretty slow. Use a normal amount of applied pressure, and do not lighten the applied pressure at the end of your polishing cycle.
For final finishing with a random-orbital and a foam finishing pad, run the machine at a mid-level setting (PC/Meg's G100 @ 2.5-4.5, G110/G220/UDM @ 1.0-3.0), and make sure the pad is spinning approximately two to four rotations per second. This may be a bit over-detailed recommendation on the speed- The pro's will know the range they should use the machine at. Use a normal amount of applied pressure, make sure the pad spins (but not too quickly), and do not lighten the applied pressure at the end of your polishing cycle.
A lot, I know...
The main thing is, minimize the amount of product being applied, and keep the dang pad clean.
Do you mind if I chime in?
I don't know everyone's polishing methods (downward pressure, buffer speed, diameter pad, etc), so bear with me if you've already tried this method. For both random-orbital and rotary application, it's best to switch to a fresh pad for your final passes on a given area. Even of you use a similar pad, the outcome will be better. The reason for this is two-fold: First, it minimizes the chance that the old & crunchy oxidized paint stuck to the pad isn't installing defects. Secondly, it reduces the amount of product left on the pad. In my experience, the second reason is key to making D151 finish out nicely on any type of paint (hard or soft).
Now, if you don't want to do this because you think it kind of defeats the reason for using a one-step (it takes time to switch back & forth between pads), you should absolutely minimize the amount of product attached to the pad, and cut way back on the product you're using when adding product to final-polish the surface. A good way to do clean the pad is listed in post 65 of this thread. Even though it was in reference to removing excess moisture to avoid saturation problems, it'll do the trick. Here it is:
To remedy build-up of product and saturation of the pad, you should frequently clean it. A very simple way to do remove excess liquid is to attach the pad to a random-orbital, and push the pad's face against a microfiber towel (set the towel on a flat surface, like a table), Run the machine for 5-10 seconds, or until most of the moisture is removed. This process will remove a majority of the saturation.
For final finishing with a rotary and a foam finishing pad, drop the speed to a very slow setting (Makita's 9227 goes down to 600 rpm, Metabo's 12-175 runs at 700, while most others spin at 1,000 rpm). I'm guessing most guys are using a pad smaller than an 8-inch (likely 5.5-6.5 inches?), so the velocity of the pad should be pretty slow. Use a normal amount of applied pressure, and do not lighten the applied pressure at the end of your polishing cycle.
For final finishing with a random-orbital and a foam finishing pad, run the machine at a mid-level setting (PC/Meg's G100 @ 2.5-4.5, G110/G220/UDM @ 1.0-3.0), and make sure the pad is spinning approximately two to four rotations per second. This may be a bit over-detailed recommendation on the speed- The pro's will know the range they should use the machine at. Use a normal amount of applied pressure, make sure the pad spins (but not too quickly), and do not lighten the applied pressure at the end of your polishing cycle.
A lot, I know...
The main thing is, minimize the amount of product being applied, and keep the dang pad clean.
rops:
maximus20895
New member
- Apr 13, 2010
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I'm going to use D151 on Wednesday for the first time so this information is helpful!
sal329
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- Apr 22, 2008
- 1,702
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D151 is great I work it with methods I learned from Kevin Brown, I work it like M105 on a DA, prime pad, speed 6 lots of pressure, slightly less pressure and speed 4.5 or 5 for final pass. D151 does not last very long so I always top it and for that reason I have been using Menz Power Finish but if I had not got such a great deal I think I would be using my over gallon of D151 lol
maximus20895
New member
- Apr 13, 2010
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I've heard great things about both, but with D 151 being so cheap I had to get that!
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
Very nice Kevin, lots of great information that helps others to be successful... and to me that's what these forums are primarily about...
Kind of like the quote,
"You can have everything in life that you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want"
-Zig Ziglar
:xyxthumbs:
Kind of like the quote,
"You can have everything in life that you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want"
-Zig Ziglar
:xyxthumbs:
WRAPT C5Z06
New member
- Nov 12, 2009
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It's been made very clear to clean the pad frequently with the Meg's MF system, and now D151. Does this go for ALL polishes/compounds? I would think so...
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 6
Definitely yes. It's important to always work clean. This would include anything that abrades the paint including a cleaner/wax, or cleaner/sealant, or cleaner/hybrid plus all the usual suspects, compounds, polishes and paint cleaners.
Why it's important to clean your pads often...
ANYTIME you're abrading the surface whether you're using an aggressive cutting compound of an ultra fine polish, you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad...
- Spent product
- Removed paint
- Adding fresh product to spent product and removed paint adulterates the fresh product, it also dilutes it.
- Buffing with a dirty pad will be more difficult.
- The product will cake-up on the face of the pad.
- The product will become gummy on the paint and hard to wipe off.
:xyxthumbs:
Perfections
New member
- Aug 17, 2010
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No, what psi are you blowing them out at?!!